PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[Secur]

you are talking that we are not getting PAK FA

Here we are talking about indo pak scenario-- both of your so called finest aircraft are sanctioned prone -- Russia won't entertain you during WAR

We wont need it even since the entire JFT is manufactured in Pakistan so there is no problem of spares or anything ... For engines , Russia is already providing us with RD 93 even when it is well aware that they will be used on Pakistani JFT's and in the future JFT will be powered by Chinese WS 13 ( testing has already begun ) so forget about it being sanction prone

 

[majesticpankaj]

We wont need it even since the entire JFT is manufactured in Pakistan so there is no problem of spares and anything ... For engines , Russia is already providing us with RD 93 even when it is well aware that they will be used on Pakistani JFT's and in the future JFT will be powered by Chinese WS 13 so forget about it being sanction prone

do you have any idea what you are talking ? just you were saying that china's supply lines are overloaded that's why they are purchasing russian engines. how they will support pakistan ?? And I did mention during the time of war -- engines won't come to you. also think about that why India didn't oppose the sale of engines to Pakistan.. think about it

 

[deckingraj]

do you have any idea what you are talking ? just you were saying that china's supply lines are overloaded that's why they are purchasing russian engines. how they will support pakistan ?? And I did mention during the time of war -- engines won't come to you. also think about that why India didn't oppose the sale of engines to Pakistan.. think about it

We did....in fact the sale was initially blocked...but later on allowed...Now not sure what was the catalyst for reversing the decision....

 

[Secur]

do you have any idea what you are talking ? just you were saying that china's supply lines are overloaded that's why they are purchasing russian engines. how they will support pakistan ?? And I did mention during the time of war -- engines won't come to you. also think about that why India didn't oppose the sale of engines to Pakistan.. think about it

What makes you think that Chinese manufacturers aren't increasing the capacity of their production lines as we speak ? The recent purchase of Russian engines was just done to give more time for these manufacturers to increase capacity ... Do you really think that China's purchase of Russian engines means that their engines aren't performing up to the mark ? BTW , India tried her level best to oppose the sale of RD 93 at first ( why did they do so if JF 17's aren't a threat ) but failed miserably ... Just go through some old archives and you will get the idea ... You cant even understand the roles of different aircrafts , the basic concept of demand and supply and RD 93 sale reports and you are debating with us on that ... Pathetic really

 

[Secur]

Russian initially blocked its sale of Kilmov RD-93 engine for JF 17 thunder saying the following as quoted by Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich:

"We've denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines,"


Speaking to Indian and Russian journalists ahead of a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov on January 22,2007 Col.-Gen. Mazurkevich confirmed that India and Russia are shortly to sign accords to jointly develop and produce a 5th generation fighter plane and a multi-role transport aircraft.


Later on President Vladimir Putin personally supervised the deal and inked sanctioning documents, representatives of president�s administration specified. The deal was backed up by all parties concerned � Defense Ministry, Federal Industry Agency and Rosoboron export, which is the state exporter of weapons.


Enjoy !!! Personally allowed by the Russian president

 

[majesticpankaj]

What makes you think that Chinese manufacturers aren't increasing the capacity of their production lines as we speak ? The recent purchase of Russian engines was just done to give more time for these manufacturers to increase capacity ... Do you really think that China's purchase of Russian engines means that their engines aren't performing up to the mark ? BTW , India tried her level best to oppose the sale of RD 93 at first ( why did they do so if JF 17's aren't a threat ) but failed miserably ... Just go through some old archives and you will get the idea ... You cant even understand the roles of different aircrafts , the basic concept of demand and supply and RD 93 sale reports and you are debating with us on that ... Pathetic really

tell me Chinese engines are better or equal to Russian ones without being getting operational ?? before increasing the capacity let them first make a operational one than we can evaluate the performance. why US is upgrading her f-16 fleet ?? because there are issues with F-35 , the same thing applies to china also. they still have unresolved issues with engines.

I think russian had placate indian concerned regarding RD93

 

[Secur]

tell me Chinese engines are better or equal to Russian ones without being getting operational ?? before increasing the capacity let them first make a operational one than we can evaluate the performance. why US is upgrading her f-16 fleet ?? because there are issues with F-35 , the same thing applies to china also. they still have unresolved issues with engines.

I think russian had placate indian concerned regarding RD

Chinese engines are already powering the J10 and J11 at the moment so whether they are equal or better than the Russian engines remains out of the question ( Both Chinese and Russian engines are being used ) ... In this way , the smart Chinese are giving more time for their manufacturers to increase capacity and time to mature ... Do you even know that JFT PT 06 is flying in China with WS13 and second batch avionics ? Also the J 20 is powered by WS 15 ( 180 kn engine ) which i think ( even though i doubt ) may enable you to understand how much progress China has made in engine technology ...

Think and keep thinking People usually act like this when their crap arguments are debunked and ignorance revealed

 

[majesticpankaj]

Chinese engines are already powering the J10 and J11 at the moment so whether they are equal or better than the Russian engines remains out of the question ( Both Chinese and Russian engines are being used ) ... In this way , the smart Chinese are giving more time for their manufacturers to increase capacity and time to mature ... Do you even know that JFT PT 06 is flying in China with WS13 and second batch avionics ? Also the J 20 is powered by WS 15 ( 180 kn engine ) which i think ( even though i doubt ) may enable you to understand how much progress China has made in engine technology ...

Think and keep thinking People usually act like this when their crap arguments are debunked and ignorance revealed

Chinese engines are not able to powered the current batch of JFT which speaks volume about your claims and still need to depend on russian one and ordering the fresh batch

 

[MilSpec]

put it into context.... give the F-16 AWACS support, give it the range of combat against an MKI similar to that of which and Indo-Pak war would allow it. F-16s suddenly become a formidable fighting force, they can defend the airspace against MKI very well.

PAF hasn't got involved in the numbers game for obvious reasons, you may see F-16s flying in groups where one is painting and feeding the armed F-16s, one F-16 dedicated for electronic attack.... etc.

This is what surprises me every time, whenever airforce combat is discussed, pakistani friends are super quick to draw out awacs support to f16 blk 52 to nullify MKI/m2k/m29smt's, what about IAF phalcons which are considered the best awacs in the world which are networked with all the three lead in strike aircrafts? if you consider awacs support to enhance PAF, doesn't the same apply to 51m2k's/157MKI's/58 m29smt's which apply to 63-f16's/56 j17's ?

 

[PakShaheen79]

tell me Chinese engines are better or equal to Russian ones without being getting operational ?? before increasing the capacity let them first make a operational one than we can evaluate the performance. why US is upgrading her f-16 fleet ?? because there are issues with F-35 , the same thing applies to china also. they still have unresolved issues with engines.

I think russian had placate indian concerned regarding RD93

You must know that it is not the design of engine which had issues. Rather, it was a quality control issue with WS-10. And is precisely the reason for setting the FC-20 delivery time span around 2014-15. Rest, rule of physics remains the same and so is the propulsion system principles. Otherwise, WS-10 has gotten operational clearance long time ago.

Source: Jane’s, Global Times, China.com

And this is why they are not able to make the required number of engines to catch the pace with which they are producing airframe and avionics.

It is problem with number of skilled personnel working on the WS-10 compare to the other engine manufacturers around the world. But according to latest estimates, it would take 2-3 years before China has enough skilled manpower. So, all the Russian engines are stopgap measures.

 

[danger007]

put it into context.... give the F-16 AWACS support, give it the range of combat against an MKI similar to that of which and Indo-Pak war would allow it. F-16s suddenly become a formidable fighting force, they can defend the airspace against MKI very well.

PAF hasn't got involved in the numbers game for obvious reasons, you may see F-16s flying in groups where one is painting and feeding the armed F-16s, one F-16 dedicated for electronic attack.... etc.

what if Pakistani AWACS shot down. JF-17

 

[abdulbarijan]

what if Pakistani AWACS shot down. JF-17

@Indian friends: ignore this fanboy abdulbarijan statements...

wow and I thought I was the only fanboy around ..
well coming back to the topic FC-20 is the best that we can do against MMRCA, what really needs to be done is better ground coverage by filling gaps with new radars,and get new SAMS and complete the rest of the modernization of JF-17..

 

[danger007]

wow and I thought I was the only fanboy around ..

lol that place reserve to you only. i just raised a point. You people depending on AWACS support and talking it will nullify IAF advantage. So i just mention what if AWAC shot down?. I guess, Shoot down an AWAC is not impossible task.

and you got thanks for it.

 

[PakShaheen79]

what if Pakistani AWACS shot down. JF-17

And with which weapon in IAF arsenal you are going to do that?

 

[danger007]

And with which weapon in IAF arsenal you are going to do that?

what a dumb question. Not with stones sir.