PAF's possible answer to MRCA

[MilSpec]

sorry for O.T

But all this bs surrounding MKI sortie rate is utter nonsense. i have worked on MKI for 3 years, and they have no maintenance issues...

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

sorry for O.T

But all this bs surrounding MKI sortie rate is utter nonsense. i have worked on MKI for 3 years, and they have no maintenance issues...

i didn't get you ?
are you a pilot ?

 

[Storm Force]

su30mki has a unbelieveable sortie rate.

Its bull crap. THIS RUBBISH ABOUT service issues

INFACT ITS THAT GOOD that india have increased the order twice from 190 in 2001.... to 232 in 2005 and then a MASSIVE 272 IN 2007.

The IAF HAS TRASHED F16/52 from singopore and F15C from USA on its indian battle schools in Gwailor...

They have gone toe toe with TYPHOON in UK and even flew in USA.

Its a formidable weapon system ...

Besides F22 with its TVC engine its agility and AOA is unmatched its PESA radar is the best in SOUTH ASIA and it carrys french and israeli jammers and EW systems.

TODATE PAF has come now where near answering the MKI threat.

Even today IAF fields 150 flankers as we speak and todate ALL PAF has to ANSWER that is 33 mk1 thunders a relative small budget war plane and 18 top f16 block 52s.

THEY are banking an AWACS saving the day.

BUT AWACS CANT SHOOT DOWN 272 SU30MKI and neither can 63 F16s which may well be sabotaged or reduced in sortie rates by USA sanctions during a indo pak war time.

" or are usa sanctions for spares " not likely to happen to pakista, TO ME USA is far closer to india offering billions in arms and trade and FDI...

 

[satishkumarcsc]

PAF's possible answer to MRCA will be induction of more F 16 or atleast a 100 FC-20.

 

[Storm Force]

to my PDF friends in any debate you can seem all is well on your side when in reality its not quite so great. TO ME you guys have several issues or concerns that are a MASSIVE problem long term.

1. You USA supply line is in jepordy during war especially with USA good friends india. They will not suport your F16 fleet... THATs GURANTEED.

2. Your thunder programme whislt great for replacing your massive obselete mirage fleet is ultimately a budget fighter. THIS means thunder is not in the league of india,s massive flanker fleet. the mki and even an upgraded mirage 2000 -5 or MIG29SMT will have the edge.

3. Financially PAKISTAN will not be able to meet the challenge of an arms race with indian massive GDP and budgets which is
10-1 in india,s favour. AND gap is growing year in year out.

FC20 will arrive but not until 2013 and not in large nos intially due to is cost...

PAF will has always fight outnumbered BUT its the technology GAP that is growing with india injvesting in hi end expensive hardware be it PHALCON awacs typhoons, C17 globematers or P8 posideions. india seems to be buying far more capable platforms.

 

[Storm Force]

Satish

The typhoon or rafale with REB2 aesa radar and meteore BVR ramjet missle will murder any F16/52. The falcon is 20 year old technology. Both MMRCA are high end tech.

Nothing short of a AESA equipped FC20 with a new ramjet version of the SD10 BVR missle will suffice.

AND PAF will need 100+ not just 36 planes which is their intial order.

India is starting with 126 and 63 more to follow

look at the mki fleet size.. 272

 

[majesticpankaj]

@storm force-- u have aptly put

F-16 block 60 with AESA radar which is a generations ahead of pakistani falcons is already rejected by IAF in favor of Rafale and typhoon. I don't see paf's falcon in such a small quantity is a threat

 

[deckingraj]

I didn't want to coment on 18mki/18 f16's losses thing because i dont exactly know the right answer to this, but this is my take
IAF looses 18 MKI and PAF looses 18 Block 52, Negligible loss for IAF big loss for PAF, now lets play with these numbers

PAF looses 180 a/cs IAF looses 180 A/c's, IAF gains air superiority, who is at bigger loss after end of conflict?

Now say PAF looses its entire fleet with equal losses of IAF, India becomes sitting duck for PLAAF

Even if India wins an all out war with pakistan, still losses will be more for INDIA,

Very wrong analysis...We won the god damn war and you are saying our losses are more??? If you are keeping in PLAAF in mind then IAF should not even think of participating in any war with PAK...No number of inductions can give you the kind of comfort that you are looking for....Keep in mind that in my scneraio we are in war with Pak...Winning it is more important than worrying about an imaginary attack from Plaaf...You cannot say let's loose the war with pakistan so that we don't end up as sitting duck for Plaaf...no????

Agreed, but still with "successful" LCAmk2 and MMRCA and full sqdn of operational 280 mki's, IAF will be in better state than now.hence it is at its weakest now. weakest in comparison to required strength to successfully win an all out confrontation with pakistan, or to ward off aggression from china. We need to maintain force levels large enough to successfully conduct and conclude the execution of envisioned doctrine of Indian military against Pakistan, and successful implementation of defense against china. So Indian forces levels are at lowest according to its own requirements for execution of its own doctrines set for specific needs.

When you say weakest now that does that mean in the past we were well equipped to guard againt PLAAF and aggressive against PAF at the same time???? Look if you are talking about two front war or something like that then i am sorry we are not ready and we will not be till the end of this decade...As said induction is not going to help...you need a minimum of 5 years period after induction to master the plane...Anything less then that you are asking to be shot down by a much mature platform even if that platform is marginal to less capable in technology.

prepare for the worst, hope for the best

You are right...But i am talking about the scenario where we are in war with Pakistan...Preparation time is over. Winning the war is the most important thing at this time...Also i am painting the same scenario for PAF...hedging on an intervention from China is not like preparing for the worst...no???

 

[Storm Force]

Pakistanis are banking on China threat PREVENTING a IAF full onslaught.

Yet CHINA has no defense deal which auto assumes that china will mass on india,s borders. in a INDO PAK KICK OFF.

did PLAAF gang up during KARGIL ???? answer = no

IF INDO PAK go to war PAKISTAN is on its own.. AND SO IS INDIA.

And india will utilise its full nations assets to fight the war.

FULL ASSETS means every plane, every tank, every missle AND EVERY $$$$$ rupee.

 

[kaykay]

Pakistanis are banking on China threat PREVENTING a IAF full onslaught.

Yet CHINA has no defense deal which auto assumes that china will mass on india,s borders. in a INDO PAK KICK OFF.

did PLAAF gang up during KARGIL ???? answer = no

IF INDO PAK go to war PAKISTAN is on its own.. AND SO IS INDIA.

And india will utilise its full nations assets to fight the war.

FULL ASSETS means every plane, every tank, every missle AND EVERY $$$$$ rupee.

true though pakistan will get some help from back door but that is it.

 

[DARKY]

So..a galinium arsinede MOSFET??

As I said it depends on the transistor used yes a GaAs MESFET is used in AESA radars which have the ability to provide power output of about 10W in peak power operating mode... while average power is in between 1-5W.... hence a higher the power you provide the better range you get... that's why the same radar on a F-18 SH would have better range than what is used on F-16 falcon.... some people say that Russians are developing GaAs T/R modules with 15-30 W peak power out puts with average power ratings in between 7-10 W.... what makes the big difference here is the cost of such T/R modules you can add 10 million USD on your current JFT price today if Chinese installs an adequate sized AESA on it.... and that would be for Radar, Mission computers and software only.... but it won't be worth it since the same AESA on a more powerful plane like F-16 or J-10 would provide better results and prove worth spending.... perhaps that's reason why I don't see IAF going for Zhuk AE on the upgraded Mig 29s.

 

[Rafi]

The indians seem pretty rattled, means our deterrence is working.

 

[Emmie]

Pakistanis are banking on China threat PREVENTING a IAF full onslaught.

Yet CHINA has no defense deal which auto assumes that china will mass on india,s borders. in a INDO PAK KICK OFF.

did PLAAF gang up during KARGIL ???? answer = no

IF INDO PAK go to war PAKISTAN is on its own.. AND SO IS INDIA.

And india will utilise its full nations assets to fight the war.

FULL ASSETS means every plane, every tank, every missle AND EVERY $$$$$ rupee.

That shows you have no idea about tactics..... Keep that mind IAF neutralizes both PAF and PLAAF, IAF cant risk her assets for PAF only..

IF INDO PAK go to war PAKISTAN is on its own.. AND SO IS INDIA.

Yes, no one will come to help physically but back door help will be available for both the countries.

 

[deckingraj]

The indians seem pretty rattled, means our deterrence is working.

Rattled in what sense??? You mean we are debating on this forum gives you an impression that we are rattled??? Do you think it is a weird logic???

 

[Rafi]

Rattled in what sense??? You mean we are debating on this forum gives you an impression that we are rattled??? Do you think it is a weird logic???

Because you are trying to convince yourselves, a person with confidence in their capabilities does not need to do that.