PAF victories against Israeli Air Force, kept secret for 25 years - Air Commodore (r) Khalid Chishti

[KaiserX]

Still serves my point bro, those wars were small in scale and achievements. Neither side hasn't really had a decisive victory.

Military scholars have noted that in every Indo-Pak war both sides are known to make so many mistakes that it was laughable... thats really how bad both forces were in tactics. One prime example being the surrender of 1971 where our generals in the east believed the Indians were outnumbering them when in reality india barely had a few thousand troops near dhaka. Makenshaw played a pyschological game and made ayub tremble.

But who could blame ayub for dismembering his great nation? ayub had better things to do like get drunk off jack and meet his lovely whores in rawalpindi, and blackmailing Fatima Jinnah (one of the founders of Pakistan). What lovely generals we have.

Today though things would be much different. Pakistani military forces have had immense experience over the last few decades, something that the Indians lack.

 

[Trango Towers]

Dont forget Israel benefits America... ALOT

1) R&D is done in israel and the products are sold in america
2) Jewish investment in America
3) America has a solid base in the middle east ie Israel to project power
4) Israel tests American weaponry before they do providing input and improvements
5) Israel carries on Americas foreign policy in the ME

From a strategic point of view Israel will always be indespencible to the US

For now

 

[Indus Pakistan]

In 1948 the Maharajah of Kashmir gave all of Kashmnir to India. In fact Indian control over Kashmir today is premised on that lergal document. Now ask the 7 times more populous elephant why have they not re-taken Azad Kashmir [the portion occupied by Pakistan] in over 70 years?

Simple question? Is it Indian baksheesh?

 

[aryobarzan]

Great story...not known at all (Pakistan was and still is considered a top flight training center country) .
The story reminds me of this.....just like when the Egyptian army almost closing in on Tel Aviv in 1973 war, Americans entered the war by establishing an "Iron Bridge" (Non stop flights of US war supplies and equipment) to almost defeated Israeli military (I bet you did not know that..read the history written by the Egyptians of that war)..I remember myself that "American Iron bridge". If you are fighting Israel you should be prepared to fight US...a fact ..Israel on its own will not last very long.2-3 day.max

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Just enter here...

Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Kargil War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In 1971, Nearly a million indian soldiers backed by a million bangladeshis militia men fought 40,000 lightly armed Pakistani soldiers who were 2750 kms away from their motherland. Even you guys would not have won.

You are using wiki to back your claims but wiki is probably the MOST unreliable and tampered with sources of info in the world especially when you have an army of indians manipulating wiki every second. Ever wondered why india is the BIGGEST FAKE NEWS & PROPAGANDA factory in the world?:

265 Indian fake news sites caught pushing anti-Pakistan propaganda

Researchers have discovered a network of 265 fake local news sites across 65 countries that are being used to disseminate anti-Pakistan coverage and serve Indian governmental interests.

thenextweb.com

Pro-Indian 'fake websites targeted decision makers in Europe' - BBC News

Fake sites and groups lobbying for India influenced decision makers in Europe, researchers say.

www.google.co.uk

Now, do you have ANY CREDIBLE & GENUINE evidence that support your claims of Pakistan never having won a war against india?

 

[Nomad40]

This is the basis of Israeli fighting doctrine, the commanders and officers are first. In 2014 Gaza, out of 68 Israeli soldiers that were killed, the highest one was a lieutenant colonel, one battalion commander was killed, another injured. They were at the front.

You have too much time my friend...I dont want to tell you what to do with your time but I am sure you have better things to worry about. Let PAF deal with IAF.

The facts are there for every one to see 1974 was a long time ago IAF took opportunity of Religious holidays and rendered useless the Arab air forces as expected.

Even if the Arabs were at their best the IAF would still have been superior.

IAF was a superior Air force compared to all Arab Air forces.

IAF is a superior Air force compared to all Arab Air forces.

Do not attempt to convince any one how superior IAF is compared to its Direct counter parts.

The limited times PAF pilots flew against IAF...it ended like this.

If I was to say IAF is PAF's lil b!chh I wont be wrong....well look at the picture again.

 

[KaiserX]

You have too much time my friend...I dont want to tell you what to do with your time but I am sure you have better things to worry about. Let PAF deal with IAF.

The facts are there for every one to see 1974 was a long time ago IAF took opportunity of Religious holidays and rendered useless the Arab air forces as expected.

Even if the Arabs were at their best the IAF would still have been superior.

IAF was a superior Air force compared to all Arab Air forces.

IAF is a superior Air force compared to all Arab Air forces.

Do not attempt to convince any one how superior IAF is compared to its Direct counter parts.

The limited times PAF pilots flew against IAF...it ended like this.View attachment 717495

Back then times were different. The arabs had some sanity and semblance of unity. Today its the complete opposite. Pakistan/Israel are more aligned than ever.

1) Both nations are key allies of KSA
2) Both nations supported the mujahadeen against soviets
3) Both nations supported azerbaijan

Going forward I would not be surprised if both nations team up against Iran. May seem like a far fetched idea but so did the arabs recognizing Israel a few years ago
Also there is a misconception with how Palestinians are treated by Israelis. Id like to point out that arab citizens of Israel have full rights and live in peace with their neighbors. It is the terrorist in Gaza/West Bank that are treated differently, but not different than how we would treat our afghan terrorist neighbors

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Great story...not known at all (Pakistan was and still is considered a top flight training center country) .
The story reminds me of this.....just like when the Egyptian army almost closing in on Tel Aviv in 1973 war, Americans entered the war by establishing an "Iron Bridge" (Non stop flights of US war supplies and equipment) to almost defeated Israeli military (I bet you did not know that..read the history written by the Egyptians of that war)..I remember myself that "American Iron bridge". If you are fighting Israel you should be prepared to fight US...a fact ..Israel on its own will not last very long.2-3 day.max

More than that. I have read various books written by respected writers [no not Muslims with axe to grind but Western] that expose one thing. In every war Israel had even before it was created in 1947 involved massive external help from some Western source. Either officially or unofficially.

The point you made is absolute true. I have read about it as well. As it appeared that Egyptians were gaining the upper hand, their crossing of the Suez Canal would credit German Panzer Armies in WW2 he Americans went into emergency mode. US satellites gave live info to Israeli's on exact movement of Egyptian armour. In addition massive air logistic support began to fill any Israeli losses. I even read that a meeting took place in Washington that looked at possibility of using tactical nukes by US Army to prevent Israel being over ran by Ehgyptian Army.

I think this war woke the Egyptian leadership to the fact that they were fighting USA. So fighting Israel was futile unless you could defeat America. This reality is what persuaded Sadat to make peace with Israel.



Operation Nickel Grass was a strategic airlift conducted by United States to deliver weapons and supplies to Israel during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Over 32 days, between October 14 and November 14, the U.S. Air Force’s Military Airlift Command shipped 22,325 tons of tanks, artillery, ammunition, and supplies in C-141 Starlifter and C-5 Galaxy transport aircraft. The supplies came at a critical moment as Israel’s stocks were rapidly being depleted.


The invading armies from Egypt and Syrian were trained and equipped by the Soviet Union. The Soviets had supplied them with more than 600 advanced surface-to-air missiles, 300 MiG-21 fighters, 1,200 tanks, and hundreds of thousands of tons of other war materiel.


Henry Kissinger, the United States Secretary of State and President Richard Nixon’ National Security Advisor, believed it would undermine American security and deterrence if Soviet-armed forces defeated Israel’s U.S.-armed military. He arranged for El Al to pick up ammunition, “high technology products” and AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles from a naval base in Virginia; however, he hoped to keep any visible involvement to a minimum to avoid upsetting America’s Arab allies, particularly the oil-producers who had threatened to withhold oil supplies if the United States came to Israel’s assistance.

Operation Nickel Grass

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

@Beny Karachun You know what the Americans did for Pakistan during the war with India? They STOPPED supply of even spare fcukin parts leaving Pakistan to beg Turkey etc for bolts and nuts for US supplied Sabre jets.

 

[Nomad40]

Back then times were different. The arabs had some sanity and semblance of unity. Today its the complete opposite. Pakistan/Israel are more aligned than ever.

1) Both nations are key allies of KSA
2) Both nations supported the mujahadeen against soviets
3) Both nations supported azerbaijan

Going forward I would not be surprised if both nations team up against Iran.

Respectfully the discussion over here is about Air force and not what is common between the the zoinst state of Israel and the Islamic republic of Pakistan. Without jumping in to politics and making it a dumpster fire I will only say that KSA and Pakistan are at worst terms.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY!!!!!!!!............nowadays I am even starting to believe that those Pakistanis who consider Israel a threat and say nothing of india, are infact sanghi/idol-worshipping kuffars..........people like me and you are IN FACT the real Muslims. Not them.


Israel is NOT OUR enemy. It NEVER has been!!!!!!!!!.........when will the low IQ retarded misfits in our community realise this??????????............





The Israelis and Jews are superior to the Arabs. There is no doubt about that.

As the Israelis/Jews and Arabs are not the enemies of the Pakistani people and nation, I have NOTHING bad to say about either of you.

I agree with your underlying theory, but you're getting carried away with the rhetoric.

Israel should not be our enemy, but through bad policy, they have become our enemy. Like you, I hope we rectify this asap. However, let's not delude ourselves about the current situation. Both nations don't trust one another, and Israel does actively assist our enemy. We should work to reverse this, however we should remain alert to the complex realities of the situation.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

In 1971, Nearly a million indian soldiers backed by a million bangladeshis militia men fought 40,000 lightly armed Pakistani soldiers who were 2750 kms away from their motherland. Even you guys would not have won.

This is why sometimes I despise the Bangos. They gave these Indian's a cowardly victory. That for eternity the Gangus will bring up. After all what else do they have but 1000 years of invasions by Muslims.

 

[Nomad40]

I agree with your underlying theory, but you're getting carried away with the rhetoric.

Israel should not be our enemy, but through bad policy, they have become our enemy. Like you, I hope we rectify this asap. However, let's not delude ourselves about the current situation. Both nations don't trust one another, and Israel does actively assist our enemy. We should work to reverse this, however we should remain alert to the complex realities of the situation.

Not only is he @PAKISTANFOREVER wrong but ignorant...this is a perfect example of escalating commitment and satisficing affirmation to false positive Ideology. I am confident with expense of o' clock the defiant will mature.

cheers.

 

[KaiserX]

This is why sometimes I despise the Bangos. They gave these Indian's a cowardly victory. That for eternity the Gangus will bring up. After all what else do they have but 1000 years of invasions by Muslims.

Indira Ghandi famously said we have won the war that last 1000 years.... wonder what she was refering to

Bangos sold us out and for that God will deal with them

I agree with your underlying theory, but you're getting carried away with the rhetoric.

Israel should not be our enemy, but through bad policy, they have become our enemy. Like you, I hope we rectify this asap. However, let's not delude ourselves about the current situation. Both nations don't trust one another, and Israel does actively assist our enemy. We should work to reverse this, however we should remain alert to the complex realities of the situation.

So how exactly did Israel become our enemys?

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Indira Ghandi famously said we have won the war that last 1000 years.... wonder what she was refering to

Bangos sold us out and for that God will deal with them


So how exactly did Israel become our enemys?

I'm not derailing the thread any more - maybe a new one is needed. Feel free to review historical posturing by Pakistan, ostensibly in support of the Palestinians, vilifying Israel in the process. In return, numerous Israeli pm's (I think initially Golda Meyer) have regarded Pakistan as a threat.

*sorry, not Meyer but Ben Gurion was the one I was thinking of...although I have just read that his quotes against Pakistan have never actually been verified.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I agree with your underlying theory, but you're getting carried away with the rhetoric.

Israel should not be our enemy, but through bad policy, they have become our enemy. Like you, I hope we rectify this asap. However, let's not delude ourselves about the current situation. Both nations don't trust one another, and Israel does actively assist our enemy. We should work to reverse this, however we should remain alert to the complex realities of the situation.

Agreed bro!

This is why sometimes I despise the Bangos. They gave these Indian's a cowardly victory. That for eternity the Gangus will bring up. After all what else do they have but 1000 years of invasions by Muslims.

As far as Pakistan and Pakistanis are concerned, bangaldesh and bangladeshis are IDENTICAL to india and the indians but 10× smaller and there is also a huge swathe of 2750 kms of the gangudesh swampland separating us from them.