PAF To Participate in PAS With Block-3

[Ultima Thule]

I personally love Mirages more than Thunders. Deltas are beauty anyway, one can ride a F-16/Thunder but it takes real dedication and skills to master a DELTA.
Hence why i have a liking for Mirage 2000-5/9 and J-10C.

Deltas has less maneuverability/agility than tailed delta, Pure deltas like Mirages have only go straight and have a good sustain turn rates, Canard Delta like J-10C/EF-2000/RAFALE/Grippen have almost same agile and maneuverable to Tail deltas, but major disadvantages of Canard delta is Their front RCS is large (they have large Radar cross section head on)

 

[GumNaam]

A Little Birdie Tells me that PAF/PAC skipped participating this year with JF-17s in DAS as it's gearing up to introduce JF-17 Block-3 at next year's Paris Air Show. The Block-3 is keenly awaited by several potential customers and it's maiden flight is imminent.....while some sources say it's already under trials.

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aap ki little birdie kaheen najam sethi waali chirrya to nahi? kiyon kay najam sethi ki chirrya kuch ziada hi lambi chorr thi hay! aur najam sethi aaj kal farigh ho chukay hain to kaheen aap nay uski bayrozgaar chirrya ko hire to nahi kar liya?

 

[StormBreaker]

Deltas has less maneuverability/agility than tailed delta, Pure deltas like Mirages have only go straight and have a good sustain turn rates, Canard Delta like J-10C/EF-2000/RAFALE/Grippen have almost same agile and maneuverable to Tail deltas, but major disadvantages of Canard delta is Their front RCS is large (they have large Radar cross section head on)

Thanks for sharing information which might be helpful to new viewers as i am already aware of it. People like you are beauty who give explanations unlike some who criticize.

As for my Delta statement, i plainly meant that i love deltas simply due to their wings and surface area.

 

[Windjammer]

aap ki little birdie kaheen najam sethi waali chirrya to nahi? kiyon kay najam sethi ki chirrya kuch ziada hi lambi chorr thi hay! aur najam sethi aaj kal farigh ho chukay hain to kaheen aap nay uski bayrozgaar chirrya ko hire to nahi kar liya?

Bhai hum ney na hi PCB ka chairman banuna hey aur na hi sehasat karney, kidar say ja khabar mill jatey hey, woh aap lougoun say share karta houn....wesey mein koi farigh bi nai.

Paris Air Show has less influence on military aircraft. The scope for military aircraft has increased a lot at Dubai Air Show in comparison. It was not as significant as the 2017 one, but the marketing of the Block 70/72 for example, believe it or not, comes out with the display of the Block 60 being flown by UAE. It works in both favours, UAE has their display for themselves and Lockheed gets to market out a potential jet to a potential customer.

Whatever you say dude but statics tell us PAS to be the biggest in the world with DAS coming third.

The Paris Air Show (French: Salon international de l'aéronautique et de l'espace de Paris-Le Bourget, Salon du Bourget) is the largest air show and aerospace-industry exhibition event in the world, measured by number of exhibitors and size of exhibit space. In second place is UK's Farnborough, followed by Dubai Air Show or Singapore Airshow.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks for sharing information which might be helpful to new viewers as i am already aware of it. People like you are beauty who give explanations unlike some who criticize.

As for my Delta statement, i plainly meant that i love deltas simply due to their wings and surface area.

yeah i know its pleasing to watch delta, i like delta also, but most of Interceptors of the early (50s/60s cold war is actually a deltas (western) like F-102 Delta dagger/F-106 Delta dart/ Mirages/ Gloster Javelin and Famous SR-71 was also a delta but i like F-16, if you get closer look F-16 look like a agile falcon, in today warfare agility and maneuverability is more important that look or beauty

 

[StormBreaker]

yeah i know its pleasing to watch delta, i like delta also, but most of Interceptors of the early (50s/60s cold war is actually a deltas (western) like F-102 Delta dagger/F-106 Delta dart/ Mirages/ Gloster Javelin and Famous SR-71 was also a delta but i like F-16, if you get closer look F-16 look like a agile falcon, in today warfare agility and maneuverability is more important that look or beauty

Did i forgot to mention, nothing second F-16 or i really did in PAS Block 3 thread an hour ago?

 

[alibaz]

Okay. Why do peolpe think that weapon systems needs marketing like cars and mobiles?
Should PAC distribute pamphlets? Or they should advertise it using google ads?
Why do @Stealth thinks that any air force will buy a jet based on its looks? Have you seen the competitor F-35?

As @airomerix said there are multiple factors involved into buying a weapon system. Hell nowadays even capabilities offered takes a back seat some times due to political,economical and security reasons. Take a look at Qatar. They don't even have men to fly jets. But they are buying jets from every country.

Pakistan is poor country who has made a jet with the help from China. We have no aviation history. Our economy is in shambles. We are surviving on loans. Everything is fucked up in this country and people on PDF expects that JF-17 will sell like hot cakes. They want PAC to compete with the likes of Boeing,LM, Dassault and Sukhoi.
@Quwa Whats the budget of PAF?

JF being a Sino Pak co-production provides it necessary political, economical and security push through Chinese influence.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Did i forgot to mention, nothing second F-16 or i really did in PAS Block 3 thread an hour ago?

PAS will not happens next year (2020) as most members assume but it will happens on 2021, and most of members here try to compare F-16 with JF-17 which is wrong, JF-17 is not builds for Replacement for F-16 but complement to our F-16 and both sits in different class (JF-17 is lightweight jet that is replacing F-7/ A-5 and Some mirages) and F-16 is in medium weight category

 

[StormBreaker]

I was wondering, @MastanKhan , @araz , @GriffinsRule , @Stealth , all of you have shower concerns regarding bad marketing of Thunders.
NOW...

Let’s keep Pakistan And PAF aside. Come to CATIC/AVIC/CAC/SAC or plainly CHINA. How would you rate their marketing history since Chinese 2nd Gen planes (F-7) uptil now Especially J-10 and J-31 as well as L-15. ?

There is a belief, “Bacha apne baron se seekhta hai”, which i find quite accurate in many cases, implying here, AVIC will always be a Guru to PAC and vice versa, but China is old in defence manufacturing & Marketing compared to us. What say you guys?

PAS will not happens next year (2020) as most members assume but it will happens on 2021, and most of members here try to compare F-16 with JF-17 which is wrong, JF-17 is not builds for Replacement for F-16 but complement to our F-16 and both sits in different class (JF-17 is lightweight jet that is replacing F-7/ A-5 and Some mirages) and F-16 is in medium weight category

I still have a wish to see the J-10 if we fail to acquire more F-16s.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I was wondering, @MastanKhan , @araz , @GriffinsRule , @Stealth , all of you have shower concerns regarding bad marketing of Thunders.
NOW...

Let’s keep Pakistan And PAF aside. Come to CATIC/AVIC/CAC/SAC or plainly CHINA. How would you rate their marketing history since Chinese 2nd Gen planes (F-7) uptil now Especially J-10 and J-31 as well as L-15. ?

There is a belief, “Bacha apne baron se seekhta hai”, which i find quite accurate in many cases, implying here, AVIC will always be a Guru to PAC and vice versa, but China is old in defence manufacturing & Marketing compared to us. What say you guys?

L-15 and F-7 is export success, but not J-10 and FC-31, they offered J-10/J-31 for export but no avail, i think its because of foreign tech/Engine in J-10/J-31 that prohibits J-10/J-31 exports

I still have a wish to see the J-10 if we fail to acquire more F-16s.

J-10C is good choice to replace our Vintage Mirages

 

[StormBreaker]

L-15 and F-7 is export success, but not J-10 and FC-31, they offered J-10/J-31 for export but no avail, i think its because of foreign tech/Engine in J-10/J-31 that prohibits J-10/J-31 exports

J-10 is flying on a matured WS-10 lately, i do believe, China either lacked the will to export J-10 or they are too late in the arena that more capable, Light-Medium weight fighters are competing in the market such as Gripen, M-346.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The Gripen E/F isn't scoring that many sales either. IIRC it's only Sweden and Brazil.

In fact, you'll notice that even net-new Russian sales have tapered off a bit, with China and India largely remaining as the key importers, while everyone else is biting off the margins.

The fighter market is dominated by the US and EU, i.e., the two powers with arguably the most political and economic influence on the key markets.

IMO Turkey probably has the best strategy right now at obstructing American and European sales by basically trying to create a TF-X consortium out of potential markets, i.e., Pakistan, Malaysia, Qatar, etc.

 

[Ultima Thule]

J-10 is flying on a matured WS-10 lately, i do believe, China either lacked the will to export J-10 or they are too late in the arena that more capable, Light-Medium weight fighters are competing in the market such as Gripen, M-346.

J-10C is recently matured with WS-10 (2018), J-10C, China is way way behind in Engine research and development As compare to USA/UK/France/ Russia, they have decades of experience for development and Research for engine development, China is relatively new for research and development of Jet engine from Scratch, its major hurdle for China , lat wait and see what is the out come for J-10C on next China airshow

 

[Raider 21]

Anyone who compares a F-16 to Thunder is plain stupid anyway. Thunders were never meant to be F-16s rather as replacements to aging F-7s and Mirages. Compare them with Thunder, you will find a good light weight fighter with modern capabilities, able to deal in combat with modern fighters of adversaries IF USED TACTICALLY.
F-16s are in a class of their own. They were, are and will always be a beauty, nothing can replace, NOT EVEN F-35 !!!
If only, we had gotten our fleet to 200, there would be no need of Thunders. Heck, we should have allocated money for Buying F-16s thorough 100% payments rather than spending on regular golf championships or lavish 5 star international CHEFS for each dish.

I remember meeting the OC of a JF-17 squadron at the beginning of this year. He was a very established Viper guy, had flown every type version of the jet in the PAF including a 2 year exchange tour abroad on Vipers. His comments were, the Block 52+ is the best platform for the war on terror. But the JF-17 is their own platform and they can do anything they want with it. F-16s had to be regulated in many ways (not the way how the public says especially with the kill switch bugs...)

I was wondering, @MastanKhan , @araz , @GriffinsRule , @Stealth , all of you have shower concerns regarding bad marketing of Thunders.
NOW...

Let’s keep Pakistan And PAF aside. Come to CATIC/AVIC/CAC/SAC or plainly CHINA. How would you rate their marketing history since Chinese 2nd Gen planes (F-7) uptil now Especially J-10 and J-31 as well as L-15. ?

There is a belief, “Bacha apne baron se seekhta hai”, which i find quite accurate in many cases, implying here, AVIC will always be a Guru to PAC and vice versa, but China is old in defence manufacturing & Marketing compared to us. What say you guys?


I still have a wish to see the J-10 if we fail to acquire more F-16s.

The marketing presentation was actually very poor. I was given a presentation on PAC a few years ago and I could not understand the whole 90s style themed content, not to mention the lack of presentation skills for most of them. This was a few years back, but I'm told they have changed quite a lot.

 

[StormBreaker]

The Gripen E/F isn't scoring that many sales either. IIRC it's only Sweden and Brazil.

In fact, you'll notice that even net-new Russian sales have tapered off a bit, with China and India largely remaining as the key importers, while everyone else is biting off the margins.

The fighter market is dominated by the US and EU, i.e., the two powers with arguably the most political and economic influence on the key markets.

IMO Turkey probably has the best strategy right now at obstructing American and European sales by basically trying to create a TF-X consortium out of potential markets, i.e., Pakistan, Malaysia, Qatar, etc.

This... i was waiting for someone to come up with this point. Note down the most arms importing countries in the last 3-4 years, you will find most of the countries to be GCC countries who are customers to western firms. Unless, a long term strategy, to support GCC local industry (as thats what the sheikhs are thinking these days) by China/Russia/any other exporter with a really attractive package comes up, USA, France and BAE will dominate.

I remember meeting the OC of

???