PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Signalian]

with a total of

10-12 PL15 armed J10C under belly and on dual racks .. this lethal weapon is more than sufficent to target 3-4 Rafaels at BVR simultaneously ..
36 x4 = 144 Rafaels..

and If went above 36 to lets say 72 to 108 J10C, then game over for Indian airforce for sure..

JF17 with PL 15 on dual racks with 4-8 itself is end of the story for rafaels

PAF sending the message across
"Expensive doesn't mean better".

 

[syed_yusuf]

J10c was a master stroke by paf. Even if iaf gets f35 from USA, paf will be able handle..... not 1:1 but will be able to handle. However with current political and economic crisis I highly doubt it is sustainable for paf to continue modernization and maintain this fleet.

 

[Edevelop]

J10c was a master stroke by paf. Even if iaf gets f35 from USA, paf will be able handle..... not 1:1 but will be able to handle. However with current political and economic crisis I highly doubt it is sustainable for paf to continue modernization and maintain this fleet.

India has economic issues as well. Unlike Pakistan they just don't like to admit this fact publicly.

At the moment they have 36 Rafales and it appears the numbers won't grow to the idea they originally conceived. Here is a link to a news report which states India is going to cut down Rafales from 114 to just 57

India Halves $20B Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft Program: Report

The Indian Air Force is reportedly cutting down its foreign fighter procurement program requirement from 114 to 57 aircraft.

www.thedefensepost.com

So its a battle between 57 Rafales and 36 J-10s.

If they somehow get the F-35 which I doubt it would be anytime soon, History and time has proven Pakistan can get what it wants from China. I believe we have a relationship which can get us anything on soft terms.

Also pertinent to note:

India is slower in replacing its ageing fleet. Over 128 Mig-21 (flying coffins) still active. Their Tejas program is not even close to what the JF-17 has done in Pakistan.

The other Indian fleet such as the SU-30 was exposed on Feb 2019. I don't think its worth discussing its capabilities The Block 2 JFTs and older F-16s are just far too superior.

India is bigger in area and it has 1.5 pilots per aircraft while we are smaller and have 2.5 pilots per aircraft.

In the future India's cost to operate western aircrafts is going to be very expensive and deliveries of their spare parts are going to be painfully slow when they are needed the most because the West is just not at the level of China in terms of production and Pakistan is China's little brother who has experience and industry.

 

[NA71]

PAF sending the message across
"Expensive doesn't mean better".

Sir, just a question ...what message as a nation, we are sending to entire world for last couple of months...

 

[Signalian]

Sir, just a question ...what message as a nation, we are sending to entire world for last couple of months...

The world is not bothered about Pakistan, unless to link Pakistan with terrorism at every opportunity.

Entire world has other worries of their own and interests of their own. Ukrainian war is more interesting to most of them than what happens inside Pakistan.

 

[syed_yusuf]

India has economic issues as well. Unlike Pakistan they just don't like to admit this fact publicly.

At the moment they have 36 Rafales and it appears the numbers won't grow to the idea they originally conceived. Here is a link to a news report which states India is going to cut down Rafales from 114 to just 57

India Halves $20B Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft Program: Report

The Indian Air Force is reportedly cutting down its foreign fighter procurement program requirement from 114 to 57 aircraft.

www.thedefensepost.com

So its a battle between 57 Rafales and 36 J-10s.

If they somehow get the F-35 which I doubt it would be anytime soon, History and time has proven Pakistan can get what it wants from China. I believe we have a relationship which can get us anything on soft terms.

Also pertinent to note:

India is slower in replacing its ageing fleet. Over 128 Mig-21 (flying coffins) still active. Their Tejas program is not even close to what the JF-17 has done in Pakistan.

The other Indian fleet such as the SU-30 was exposed on Feb 2019. I don't think its worth discussing its capabilities The Block 2 JFTs and older F-16s are just far too superior.

India is bigger in area and it has 1.5 pilots per aircraft while we are smaller and have 2.5 pilots per aircraft.

In the future India's cost to operate western aircrafts is going to be very expensive and deliveries of their spare parts are going to be painfully slow when they are needed the most because the West is just not at the level of China in terms of production and Pakistan is China's little brother who has experience and industry.

All of the above is good but remember Indian rupee did not devaluate 300% in 15 years. They still have decent export. A good internal economy , balanced food, power and education. I do not want to derail the thread. But Pakistan economy is in very bad shape due to mismanagement and bad decisions. A strong defence among other things need a very strong economy to prevail

 

[Windjammer]

The first group of Rafale Rippers.

 

[dbc]

In the future India's cost to operate western aircrafts is going to be very expensive and deliveries of their spare parts are going to be painfully slow

wishful thinking, I suspect the Rafale can generate much higher sortie rates and sustain higher operational tempo with less spares v J10CE. Sure, Rafale munitions are super expensive. I think India will deplete its inventory of Rafale munitions long before it runs out of spares. But then, India has the option of emergency weapons purchase from France or other Rafale operators. Pakistan will have to hope for Chinese largesse.

 

[arslank03]

wishful thinking, I suspect the Rafale can generate much higher sortie rates and sustain higher operational tempo with less spares v J10CE. Sure, Rafale munitions are super expensive. I think India will deplete its inventory of Rafale munitions long before it runs out of spares. But then, India has the option of emergency weapons purchase from France or other Rafale operators. Pakistan will have to hope for Chinese largesse.

India stipulated that Dassault had to ensure ATLEAST 75% serviceability for their rafale fleet after seeing the French Air Force Rafale fleet having 48% availability in 2016. Im not sure about you, but if i was buying something and i had to ASK the OEM to ensure that it would work at least 3/4 times, it wouldn't impress me very much.

 

[dbc]

48% availability in 2016.

Means nothing, the French include all Rafale aircraft in their availability metric even the ones they deliberately preserve and take out of the operational rotation pool. I can tell you the Rafale can sustain high operational tempo with high mission availability rates when required. In other words, you can expect the entire IAF Rafale fleet to be available for an estimated three months of a high tempo military operation. Beyond that the availability rate will drop to the high 90s for a few months while the IAF deplete their spares inventory.

 

[Readerdefence]

J10c was a master stroke by paf. Even if iaf gets f35 from USA, paf will be able handle..... not 1:1 but will be able to handle. However with current political and economic crisis I highly doubt it is sustainable for paf to continue modernization and maintain this fleet.

Hi if we go by this scenarios about 5th generation fighter vs 4th then Top gun maverick can be a reality to slay over 5th generation with early 4th gen f14
thank you

 

[MastanKhan]

It's not an arithmetic game, it's a physics game! He who has mastered physics better would win!!! By the by, coding for the social media companies doesn't count as physics....

Hi,

Did you know that PHYSICS is an OPTIONAL subject for many high schools in the US.

You can get into an engineering university here in the US without a class of physics in your high school diploma.

That came as a surprise.

 

[StructE]

Means nothing, the French include all Rafale aircraft in their availability metric even the ones they deliberately preserve and take out of the operational rotation pool. I can tell you the Rafale can sustain high operational tempo with high mission availability rates when required. In other words, you can expect the entire IAF Rafale fleet to be available for an estimated three months of a high tempo military operation. Beyond that the availability rate will drop to the high 90s for a few months while the IAF deplete their spares inventory.

USAF can achieve 75% mission capability for F-16 in a best-case scenario. This is based on publicly available data. For a month long campaign anything more than 60% for Indian Rafale's would be miracle.

 

[dbc]

USAF can achieve 75% mission capability for F-16 in a best-case scenario. This is based on publicly available data. For a month long campaign anything more than 60% for Indian Rafale's would be miracle.

you are confusing mission capability with availability, these are two different metric.
Lets say the targeting pod laser interface is broken the aircraft isn't able designate ground targets the aircraft is available but mission capability isn't at a 100% - since the aircraft cannot participate in any mission that requires laser target designation. The aircrafts availability rate is a 100% but mission capability rate drops.

 

[SQ8]

wishful thinking, I suspect the Rafale can generate much higher sortie rates and sustain higher operational tempo with less spares v J10CE. Sure, Rafale munitions are super expensive. I think India will deplete its inventory of Rafale munitions long before it runs out of spares. But then, India has the option of emergency weapons purchase from France or other Rafale operators. Pakistan will have to hope for Chinese largesse.

Based on what reference or proof?

you are confusing mission capability with availability, these are two different metric.
Lets say the targeting pod interface is broken the aircraft is available but mission capability isn't at a 100%.

the last report hasn’t been kind to availability
https://www.airforcemag.com/usaf-aircraft-availability-on-long-downward-trend-cbo-says/

Unless you have some other “inside” sources - thats from CBO.

“For a more granular look, the CBO examined the F-15C/D and F-16C/D and found that their availability declined from just under 70 percent for both aircraft in 2000 to about 55 percent for the F-16 in 2020, while the F-15 came in about 45 percent.”