PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Miniaturisation is very important in a fighter jet. There are a lot of computers and then there are 3-4 backup computers for everything, if 1 fails or gets damaged, the aircraft switches to the backup one. If one fails a logic test, the aircraft varifies with backup computers about various flight parimeters. There are complex software codes in use which constantly check information/data available. If something seems off, it is verified using backup systems. For example the altitude or throttle position is suddenly changed to 0. The aircraft has to then quickly process if this has really happenned or its just a failed sensor/ circuit. Hence processing power does matter. It can also effect speed of your aircraft's radar etc. How quickly an aircraft offers lock of an aircraft at front? Micro seconds difference also counts. But most importantly theres issue of size. If due to lack of miniaturisation, the aircraft is larger in size. You burn more fuel, you may have to use 2 engines instead of 1, double maintainance costs, double everything, double RCS. The smaller and faster & reliable chip in an aircraft the better it would be in a number of ways because everything is related in an aircraft.

Every aircraft has several of these:

"high end" data links will not eliminate latency and so off board compute resources is not really an option for sensor fusion, signal processing, radar or the mission computer. But Advanced Battle Management System (ABMS) can fuse data from all nodes, sensors and IoTs in the cloud and leverage AI to improve battlefield effectiveness within line of sight. Here the AESA radar is really useful on the fighter and is used to transmit data at high speeds, first generation APG-79 could transmit 128 mbps 15 years ago, today it's much faster.

To answer your question both (chip and data link) are equally important.

Do Radars(aircraft) talk to other radars (aircrafts) or do radars (aircrafts) need a data link to talk (send information) to other aircrafts ?

Thank You All.. Then we know china is equal or better in data link but in semi conductor they lack behind west and USA. This means west aircraft will have edge on computing power?

 

[air marshal]

 

[araz]

Don't you worry it's french way of sweetening the deal! We got our fare share with their deals in the past

I think whatever has happened will happen behind the scene. There are commissions but we do not know whether they were taken or cost adjusted accordingly. This is the way of the weapons world.
A

 

[Thrust_Vector998]

Can anybody translate? Apparently they also showed & said something about PL-15E

 

[air marshal]

 

[siegecrossbow]

Can anybody translate? Apparently they also showed & said something about PL-15E

Nothing you don't already know. Don't rely on CCTV for any stat leaks.

 

[dbc]

Do Radars(aircraft) talk to other radars (aircrafts) or do radars (aircrafts) need a data link to talk (send information) to other aircrafts ?

The radar can transmit data along with a number of dedicated data transmitters on the surface of the aircraft. Since line of sight is important we cannot rely on just one transmitter or receiver. You will see antenna oriented towards the ground or space (satellite) or C2 nodes or other elements in your own fighter formation.

 

[jaybird]

Can anybody translate? Apparently they also showed & said something about PL-15E

Guys were talking about the J-10C aerodynamics, radar, missiles etc that's been talking about millions of times already. Last part was comparing PL-15's dual-pulse rocket motor and Meteor's ramjet motor design mechanism of how they work. And the advantage and drawbacks of the missiles.

Say PL-15 from firing to acceleration to high speed of mach 3 plus only took few seconds, if enemy fighter jet got locked on from 0-30km range there is no way to escape. And you can let the missile's own momentum gliding to the target mid range at good speed. And then fire up the second pulse from 80-100km plus and accelerate to the target. So, PL-15 got a very strong no-escape zone at close range and long range against target.

Meteor on the other hand is relatively slow picking up speed in the beginning due to more drag of the ramjet design. But once it picks up speed it last longer than conventional rocket, but once the rocket motor stop, then again due to the ramjet design the missile speed will decelerate very fast and no longer a threat to the target. So, there is a relative safe zone at short distance and also at long distance for the meteor because of the speed.


Also talk about Rafale got some fancy new techs like voice command in the cockpit. The thing was when Indian pilots start using some of these functions, it doesn't work as imagined because of the Indian pilot's accent. The mission computer of Rafale do not understand what the Indian pilots are trying to say with the heavy accent...........

 

[Signalian]

Thank You All.. Then we know china is equal or better in data link but in semi conductor they lack behind west and USA. This means west aircraft will have edge on computing power?

You have to take into account RF conditions for transmission of signals when it leaves from transmitter to receiver. These include atmospheric conditions apart from path losses . Then the LOS and BLOS communication profiles. BLOS can be primarily SATCOM.

The radar can transmit data along with a number of dedicated data transmitters on the surface of the aircraft. Since line of sight is important we cannot rely on just one transmitter or receiver. You will see antenna oriented towards the ground or space (satellite) or C2 nodes or other elements in your own fighter formation.

Creates redundancy.

 

[Signalian]

Got it they need data link to talk. Thanks

Look into older radars like pulse Doppler radars (80’s tech ) like used by F-16. Did those radars have the capability to transmit data ? Let’s say NO. Then is that reason why link-16 was introduced as a data link - to share and transmit data.

However, do the PESA and AESA radars (modern tech) possess the capability to transmit data ?
Would that be redundancy, since data link is a dedicated module for exchanging data while a radar has many other functions to perform also.

 

[Signalian]

One more thing. UAVs have sensors, not radar, so for UAV a data link is mandatory for its operations.
In feb 27 scenario, a type of mirage aircraft didn’t have radar, it used data link.

 

[Akasa]

The thing was when Indian pilots start using some of these functions, it doesn't work as imagined because of the Indian pilot's accent. The mission computer of Rafale do not understand what the Indian pilots are trying to say with the heavy accent...........

Is there any way the poster could know about this other than to pull it out of his behind?

 

[jaybird]

Is there any way the poster could know about this other than to pull it out of his behind?

That was just translation from around 4:27 to 4:52 mark of the video. The guy on the right say this was according to the feedback from some of the Indian pilots after flying the Rafale that the voice command is not working well maybe due to accent. Maybe he read some news or report about such a incident from Indian newspaper before or a troll comment.

I honestly don't know if it's true or not or the source for his comment. I just tried to translate the video the best I can when some member ask for it.

 

[maverick1977]

Do Radars(aircraft) talk to other radars (aircrafts) or do radars (aircrafts) need a data link to talk (send information) to other aircrafts ?

Radar a transmitter and another radar also transmitter cannot talk to each other via datalink. you need recievers which are inside the plan to give you a visual. However, you need to get data from all transmitters to a central location which can give you a picture of multiple radars like AWACS, besides its own radar.

 

[Signalian]

Here the AESA radar is really useful on the fighter and is used to transmit data at high speeds, first generation APG-79 could transmit 128 mbps 15 years ago, today it's much faster.

A source for article please. I want to read into this. Thx

Radar a transmitter and another radar also transmitter cannot talk to each other via datalink. you need recievers which are inside the plan to give you a visual. However, you need to get data from all transmitters to a central location which can give you a picture of multiple radars like AWACS, besides its own radar.

Talk as in send data in bits. I didn’t mean Comms