PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Aesterix]

abey bus kerday bhai.

How dare you question my superior knowledge

 

[tphuang]

Take it easy people. At worst, pl15e has slightly worse kinetic performance than pl15. It is still a really long ranged aam with nez that's probably well north of 50km against rafale. How much longer do you need than that?

More importantly, it is probably the only aam in the world using aesa seeker which makes it more likely to lock on to target and be less effected by fighter ecm. Meteor doesn't have that. Amraam doesn't have that. That's a huge difference maker.

I am really happy about all these high quality photos coming out. You can see how good the build quality of j10c is. Much better than earlier Chinese aircraft. Looks like they benefited from j20 production advancement at cac.

 

[帅的一匹]

BAAT SAMJHO----to all

J-10C case is done ....now start new thread " J-20C -News and Update'

Today CCTV13 channel reported that WS15 featuring low bypass rate turbofan with TVC is going well under test for heavy (J20) and MEDIUM weight 5th gen fighter

 

[Rafi]

Take it easy people. At worst, pl15e has slightly worse kinetic performance than pl15. It is still a really long ranged aam with nez that's probably well north of 50km against rafale. How much longer do you need than that?

More importantly, it is probably the only aam in the world using aesa seeker which makes it more likely to lock on to target and be less effected by fighter ecm. Meteor doesn't have that. Amraam doesn't have that. That's a huge difference maker.

I am really happy about all these high quality photos coming out. You can see how good the build quality of j10c is. Much better than earlier Chinese aircraft. Looks like they benefited from j20 production advancement at cac.

The PAF is more than happy with its new asset, this will lead to more purchases and include multiple squadrons, and decades of service.

 

[blain2]

It means France also delivered faulty rafales to Indians??
View attachment 823422

Indians claim Chinese hardware to be inferior. However, this is despite the fact that Indians on their own can make nothing and rely on bought "off the shelf" capabilities in all spheres to compete with China and Pakistan. Secondly, Pakistan, even with earlier, more rudimentary Chinese systems (T-59 130mm guns, T-59 tanks, F-6 Farmers) has done serious damage to India in the past wars. Our approach is that we need "good enough" tools to deter and then with our training and optimal employment, handle the rest even if all our systems are not on the high end of the scale. This obviously was the approach in the past but with what we are getting in the JF-17s and J-10s now, we can go toe to toe against anything IAF pitches including additional Rafales.

No adversarial pilot, soldier or sailer will ever question whether the ordnance was of Chinese, Western or Pakistani origin once it hits them. It will hurt and deter the same and this is sometimes lost on those on the other side who throw shade on "China maal".

So I take all of this critique from some of our neighbors as a self-pacification measure with their inferiority complex about all things "gorri" being better and their inability (out of tribalism) to admit that Chinese are moving up rapidly on the high tech scale.

J-10, along with our JF-17 Block IIIs and F-16 blk 52s/MLU are a formidable force regardless of whatever the IAF inventory possesses currently including the 36 Rafales and the 280+ MKIs and the assortment of Mirages, Mig-29s, Jaguars and Bisons. We can hold our own against them and their AF knows this too.

Maybe 3 years.

According to some, The PAF has been evaluating J10C since 2018. I think Pakistan's concern is to avoid provoking an arms race. So it was not until India received the Rafale that it decided to formally purchase the J10C.

The exchanges between the two air forces are good for both sides, and China is interested in promoting the J10C, so it is normal for customers to test drive it in advance.

I was responding to air and ground crew training. 6-8 months is sufficient for this. We did the same turnaround with the F-16s in 1982.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Initial order for now, to bolster the qualitative numerical number which was imbalanced due to the Rafael.

I believe 2 sqn for now are in sight. Block-3 are coming online, rest will get upgraded also. Thus 30-40 J10s, 150 JF17s and 70 or so F16s would be one good quality wise air force. But if more rafael or other jets inducted, the J10 numbers or even JF17 numbers may increase.

Next stop would be 5th gen. In coming decade or even before this might come to sub continent and if india initiates it first, we will follow.

I think you should really think of a 100 J10C's as the total order and not 30-40 odd - PAF will place recurring orders in the same way it has been for the JF17 until it gets to that number. PAF has always where possible(ie not restricted by sanctions) always purchased up to that number as a minimum to keep the fleet cost effective and viable with all of the required support infrastructure.

 

[blain2]

That kind of implies that a J10CE pilot is at a disadvantage if they have to transition from BVR to WVR as they cannot punch out their fuel tanks before going into the merge ?

Don't think or believe the above is factual. All fighter aircraft have to have the ability to punch drop tanks simply on account of safety (forget the merge).

..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502567299324080134

.....

The PAF CAS has a habit of skipping "s" in the plurals.

As I have stated in the past, "angraizi" is not his strong-point but he is laser-sharp focused on his service's force transformation plans.

 

[Ali_Baba]

From contract singing till the delivery it took almost 8 moths so may be 6-8 months training

Training could have started much earlier than that in simulators and through pilot transfer into squadrons through embedding etc ? PAF would want the pilots to be combat ready asap i would have thought.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

The big picture here is that the supply of J-10Cs and PL-15s are (almost!) limitless. As long as we have funds and Chinese give generous terms you can really see PAF ordering batch after batch. My guess is 110 aircraft divided into 6 squadrons.

PAF looking possibly like the below in 4-5 years

200 - JF-17s
110 - J-10Cs
75 - F-16s

The J-10C can also certainly replace the Mirage in strike duties too and all F-7s will be replaced shortly. My guess is PAF will wait for TFX then replace the F-16s. Giving us a JF-17/J-10C/TFX force.

Also it may be possible we can get the PL-21 (400km range) further down the line for the J-10C. That would basically put almost all IAF aircraft in Indian Western Command within range of the J-10C the moment that take off....

we need to go for fifth gen soon there is no reason to have more than 36 J-10s, the moment India goes for fifth gen all of them will become obsolete

 

[Dazzler]

Missile shipments PAF received post Swift Retort are not E models. China developed and marketed the E models after that, at Zhuhai Airshow' 21to be precise. Ours are different as they are not standard export models.

 

[Shotgunner51]

An observation on the MAWS

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502562543294095360

 

[TopGun786]

Sadly no chance for any IAF planes to be nicknamed "PL-15 Dodgers".....

Actually they can. Remember their Su-30MKI was downed but they still claim it "AMRAAM Dodger"

Sadly no chance for any IAF planes to be nicknamed "PL-15 Dodgers".....

Actually they can. Remember their Su-30MKI was downed but they still claim it "AMRAAM Dodger"

 

[Ali_Baba]

Have we considered the possibility that Pakistan just isnt as special as some Pakistanis consider it to be and that’s while China does allow Pakistan some tech that it doesn’t allow others, it doesn’t allow everything to be bought by Pakistan? Why do you think China made an export version of the PL-15 and PL-10? To export it obviously. It’s not like they’ll allow everyone to buy the export version either, it’s sensitive enough as is. Pakistan got the export version, why? Because it’s a foreign country. I don’t see why Pakistanis have a hard time believing that.
Another thing I don’t understand is why Pakistanis think the export versions are so bad, they’re clearly still some of the best in their class. Just putting an E next to the name doesn’t make the missile worst. By that metric Why did Pakistan get J-10CE and not J-10C. Clearly the E next to the name means it’s a downgraded jet.

TLDR: Pakistan got PL-15E and PL-10E because the PLAAF versions aren’t meant for export, and Pakistan isn’t special enough to get access to them (no one is, they’re made for Chinese forces only). The fact that Pakistan is being sold J-10Cs with PL-15E and PL-10E should itself be enough to show how much China is willing to give Pakistan. It’s not that hard to grasp.

This is the most logical and likely scenario, especially considering people that deny this have no proof and are often proven to be wrong.

Agree - and this is why Pakistan is also looking to make more stuff at home and also grow its relationship with Turkey, who seems to be far less allergic to selling full versions of its systems to Pakistan and not downgraded export variants like China does. eg akinci drones.... latest and best that Turkey has and now in Pakistan...

The question you have to ask yourself - are the AMRAAMs that the Americans have sold to the PAF - downgraded export variants or fully fledged versions? Given that they were 2 for 2 in shooting down a Suk30MKI and Mig21 - they dont seem to have been comprimised?

I think western companies tend to not create downgraded versions for export as they need their products to sell themselves based on solid performance in combat - they simply will sell to you and if they can't - it will be because their goverment wont let you - ie they wont sell to you. Also - they will not sell select weapons eg DFRM pods for Pakistan - rather create a downgraded DRFM pod to "sell you Pakistan" - etc. It is a different approach. The products are the end products for western companies and a reflection of their brand reputation - so they need to perform - esp if all they sell is that product. For China, and Russia - they are goverment organisations who dont need to turn a profit as they have guaranteed revenue streams - so for them - export sales are a bonus and not necessary for their business model - hence they are not as concerned with their reputation.

China has sold E versions of the platforms to PAF which are "downgraded versions" with "reduced' specifications as shown in their literature. Lets not make up stuff by pretending they are any more than that.

As to how reduced they are - is anyones guess..

 

[siegecrossbow]

Not sure if it has been shared but if it has, doesn't hurt to share it twice.

 

[Deino]

OMG - how old are you - hopefully as a teacher and not a kid!? lol !

Rupprecht: China hat wohl bis zu vier Typen von "Carrier-Killer-Raketen"

Für den Militärexperten, Andreas Rupprecht, hat sich auf chinesischen Übungsplätzen viel verändert. Es gebe neben zwei Flugzeugträgerattrappen und auch Modelle mit Sensoren und Elektronik.

www.ndr.de