PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[PakFactor]

my opinion about Mastan's commentary on Yemen is that he is very pragmatic and talks with pure national interest of Pakistan.
one can disagree with his opinion or choice of words but be prepared to defend the counter argument.


few exported units are not a measure of JF-17 success. its success is in its realistic goals and efficient project management and successful progression to block 3.

Do you feel Pakistan should have gotten involved? Or we did right to stay back.

 

[The Eagle]

Yes he is ... @The Eagle please ban him; I would do it on my own, but I'm not able to moderate here:

No IPs be shared please. He is already done

 

[MastanKhan]

What your opinion on the Yemen thing MastanKhan keeps harping about?

Hi,

That would have could have resulted in a 100---150 K troops in GCC.

The income of those troops would have resulted in over 2-3 million jobs in pakistan and a massive influx of foreign exchange---.

That is why---I had stated many a time---Gen Raheel was an extremely stupid commander in chief who did not have the brains to understand the rewards in a timely manner.

 

[Thorough Pro]

the decision was taken by PMLN leadership Nawaz Shareef, not chief of Army Staff Gen RS

Hi,

That would have could have resulted in a 100---150 K troops in GCC.

The income of those troops would have resulted in over 2-3 million jobs in pakistan and a massive influx of foreign exchange---.

That is why---I had stated many a time---Gen Raheel was an extremely stupid commander in chief who did not have the brains to understand the rewards in a timely manner.

 

[JohnWick]

Hi,

That would have could have resulted in a 100---150 K troops in GCC.

The income of those troops would have resulted in over 2-3 million jobs in pakistan and a massive influx of foreign exchange---.

That is why---I had stated many a time---Gen Raheel was an extremely stupid commander in chief who did not have the brains to understand the rewards in a timely manner.

So we are mercenaries, right?
In your sense ?

 

[Khan vilatey]

Its a very interesting question.

I think with S400, Rafales and meteor missile induction. The era of Mirages is absolutely gone. No one is sending a mirage into Indian airspace now onwards. Also, Jf-17 would not be the best choice either. I think we will see J10-c as primary interceptor. It would be used to intercept incoming enemy aircrafts. With PL15, Strong Aesa radar, and excellent manoeuvrability J10-c would be the best for this purpose. JF17 can accompany J10-c as a force multiplier. However we might see F16 role switching to an attack aircraft, going inside enemy airfield and bomb strategic locations. Why F16? because PAF is battle hardened and highly confident with F16s. The engine is strong and it has 9 hardpoints, enough to carry fuel tanks, SOWs and A2A missiles plus it can defend hard from incoming missiles. I think we will see F16 in a more offensive role. Unlike 29th Feb where we sent Mirages and JF17s for SOWs and f16s were protecting our airspace.

Well, this is as per my limited knowledge. Maybe others can add onto it and correct if im wrong?

F-16s have no aerial refueling capability in the PAF and the block 52 with the body fitting configurable fuel tanks or something can’t be used in offensive roles due to the contracts PAF signed with America Bhadur. So it will need to be jf-17 block 4 with a bigger airframe and engine for strike roles or would have to be more j-10c. Some one said su-35s from China but I don’t think an aircraft like that is in Pakistans best interest

Also all the smart weapons on the f-16 use GPS which in war may not be available to Pakistan

K

 

[Big_bud]

F-16s have no aerial refueling capability in the PAF and the block 52 with the body fitting configurable fuel tanks or something can’t be used in offensive roles due to the contracts PAF signed with America Bhadur. So it will need to be jf-17 block 4 with a bigger airframe and engine for strike roles or would have to be more j-10c. Some one said su-35s from China but I don’t think an aircraft like that is in Pakistans best interest

Also all the smart weapons on the f-16 use GPS which in war may not be available to Pakistan

K

Oh yes... Thats a bummer! I forgot about the contracts! Means JF it is for now! F16 would have made a great attack fighter though!

 

[tphuang]

There are some interesting points that I've noticed up thread.

First of all, I find this claim that J-10A lost to F-16 quite dubious. First of all, without knowing the pilots and the combat scenario, it's hard to say which aircraft is better from just a couple of exercises. Secondly, American officials would go ballistic if they found out PLAAF aircraft had access to F-16s in Pakistan hosted exercises. That might be the end of F-16 era at PAF. Chinese side maintains they've had minimal look or access to F-16. So my question really is how could J-10 have fought F-16 under all this American restrictions when nobody outside of China flew J-10s?

I can tell you there is definitely concern on Chinese side that American officials will get to see J-10Cs, since China does not put the same level of restriction on its J-10C usage as America does. By the way, when Pakistan is ready to purchase J-31 down the road. It will need to get rid of F-16s and all those accompanying American inspectors. If you think that's unfair, just take a look at the UAE/F-35 negotiation.

We have seen J-10C battle other aircraft. It has repeated successes against su-35s (and even J-16s to a certain degree) in Chinese DACT. It dominated Gripen according to the leaked reports. Amongst in service aircraft, it's probably the most capable A2A aircraft outside of J-20. The only reason you see PLAAF move away from J-10C is due to their need for longer ranged/higher payload aircraft. I think it should be a given that J-10C can dominate the less capable su-30MKI in air combat. I think JF-17 block 3 would be more than a match for MKI.

So, the question is how it will far against Rafale. I have a lot of respect for Rafale due to its ability in winning a lot of major export competitions around the world. I think it really separated itself from other eurocanards by deploying AESA radar back in 2013. PAF officials obviously see Rafale as a whole new level of threat that F-16 cannot counter. That's why they got J-10C. They must have had long looks at J-10C in all those Shaheen exercises. Having seen both Rafale and J-10C, I doubt PAF would order J-10C if it doesn't think J-10C can counter Rafale in the role of A2A combat. More importantly, J-10C will stay with PLAAF for many years. It will be upgraded to fire the latest missiles that China has. That's something PAF is unlikely to get with F-16s. Given the speed at which F-16s will likely leave USAF, do we think USAF will require F-16s to be upgraded to support their latest missiles? And more importantly, how long and difficult would it be for PAF to get the export permits for the latest American missiles? It would be very hard for me to see J-10C not having a big radar/EW suite/missile advantage over PAF F-16s. Would the F-16s even be favored over JF-17 Block 3 when the latter is using PL-10 and PL-15? I kind of doubt it. So when PAF is getting J-10Cs, it's not only purchasing the aircraft in its current iteration but also what it will be 4 or 5 years from now as Chinese military industrial complex continue to improve.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

I can tell you there is definitely concern on Chinese side that American officials will get to see J-10Cs, since China does not put the same level of restriction on its J-10C usage as America does. By the way, when Pakistan is ready to purchase J-31 down the road. It will need to get rid of F-16s and all those accompanying American inspectors. If you think that's unfair, just take a look at the UAE/F-35 negotiation.

I think even if it hasn't been written in a formal document, it would be reasonable to assume that an understanding exists between China and Pakistan about the need to protect Chinese tech from American or foreign espionage.

If it came to FC31 or a variation of it, it seems likely that it would be housed in a completely separate airbase with tighter security protocols.

 

[Beast]

Precisely, if J-10c offer over modest capabilities over JF-17 Blk 3. Might as well stick with a bigger order of Blk 3.

Why go for the hassle of inducting a new plane with need to setup separate different maintenance facilities since engine, airframe and radar are totally different between J-10C and JF-17 Blk 3.

What PAF wants from J-10C is air supremacy over South Asia skies.

 

[PakFactor]

Precisely, if J-10c offer over modest capabilities over JF-17 Blk 3. Might as well stick with a bigger order of Blk 3.

Why go for the hassle of inducting a new plane with need to setup separate different maintenance facilities since engine, airframe and radar are totally different between J-10C and JF-17 Blk 3.

What PAF wants from J-10C is air supremacy over South Asia skies.

My only problem with JF-17 while it's a good aircraft is its limited loadout, the J-10C I also feel fills this gap as well.

 

[Abid123]

My only problem with JF-17 while it's a good aircraft is its limited loadout, the J-10C I also feel fills this gap as well.

Should go for J-10C in large numbers.

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

That would have could have resulted in a 100---150 K troops in GCC.

The income of those troops would have resulted in over 2-3 million jobs in pakistan and a massive influx of foreign exchange---.

That is why---I had stated many a time---Gen Raheel was an extremely stupid commander in chief who did not have the brains to understand the rewards in a timely manner.

At the cost of 1000s of Pakistani soldiers dead, when we had internal issues and the Emiratis treating us like shit. Saudis and Emiratis have learned their lessons I.e. we told you so. hence they ( atleast the Saudis) have better respect for us. Don’t listen to Mastan, he is just a fake. As for the Emiratis they are going down a Rabbit hole from which they will not come out.

 

[MultaniGuy]

At the cost of 1000s of Pakistani soldiers dead, when we had internal issues and the Emiratis treating us like shit. Saudis and Emiratis have learned their lessons I.e. we told you so. hence they ( atleast the Saudis) have better respect for us. Don’t listen to Mastan, he is just a fake.

I do agree with you that the Saudis, and Emiratis call us "miskeen."
That is why we need to improve the condition of our country so we are better respected.

We did the right thing by staying out of Yemen.

Why should we get killed in someone else's war?

Do you see Saudis and Emiratis declaring war on India over Kashmir.

Or does Saudis and Emiratis give us fuel and other supplies when we are at war with India?

Exactly, Pakistan First. I couldn't give a damn for anyone else's country.

 

[PakFactor]

Should go for J-10C in large numbers.

I would as well.