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Have you seen the nozzle on that thing? Not VLO to the same level at all.

If this Ukrainian conflict tells anything, it would be that Russian EW and precision strike technology is really bad. And more importantly, Russia won't have the money to finish developing that thing.

As for the first part, China will have something replacing GJ-11 in the future. After all, they export GJ-2 that also gets used by PLAAF. There is no reason China won't export GJ-11 with 5th gen aircraft down by 2030. It won't be cheap.

The GJ-11 prototype, back when it was still referred to as the Sharp Sword, also did not exhibit IR shielding for its engine nozzles, so it's a bit premature to say that the Okhotnik-B won't be undergoing similar revisions once it nears production.

The GJ-11 just finished its development, so it will be a while before the PLAAF finds something to replace it, not to mention that the technological disparity between the GJ-2 and GJ-11 means that we can't say that the PLAAF will export the latter just because the GJ-2 was sold to other countries.

So the only option for countries willing to pay for a GJ-11-like capability would be the CH-7.



I fail to see how this relates to your claim that the Okhotnik-B won't have similar RCS reduction or level of avionics compared to that of the GJ-11.

Its all related. A premier weapon demonstrate your national military technological level,

Hunter is for air superiority and loyal wingman but not the same small UCAV like Boeing's two loyal wingman UCAVs.

Basically China is going with Dark Sword as heavy air superiority UCAV that is to be integrated closely with J-20 and J-16 but also certainly AI operated. Recent leaks from Chinese government mentioned AI pilots making considerable progress and hinting at defeating manned pilots. AI technology in US and China are already well into this level. I would be surprised if AI is not already superior to best human pilots in at least battlefield decision making. Certainly already superior in battlefield situation awareness. GJ-11 is strike focused. Hunter and GJ-11 are both flying wings but have different roles. X-47B also a flying wing UCAV and yet another separate role compared to those two. Out of those three, only GJ-11 is in service. US have flying wing UAV for recon (and so does Iran) but only GJ-11 is the known in service UCAV for actual firing weapons.

If we are to assume US has some other UCAVs in service, there is equal chance Chinese Dark Sword is also close to if not in service since the secrecy level of these two are similar if not the Chinese being even more secretive with important military intel.

Hunter or Okhotnik is still a demonstration and prototyping. No different to GJ-11's prototype Sharp Sword back in before 2012. It was photographed by public flying in 2013. Come on, it was flying in secret before that and test flying far away from cities.

Anyway Hunter's role equivalent is Dark Sword UCAV. GJ-11's mock up shown in 2019 parade is basically identical in geometry and structure to the actual GJ-11 in service. During parades, the missiles that are mockups for example HHQ-9 displayed or YJ-12 or YJ-18 are usually mockups but the mockups used for parade are 1:1 identical to the weapon. The GJ-11 has what is known in English by BAe as "wing circulating control" or basically replacing moving control surfaces (even flying wings use these typically) with ejected gas along certain areas.

https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/2019/05/06/stealthy-flapless-drone-steers-with-vectored-thrust/

GJ-11 have very few moving control surfaces if any at all and relies on this new system which BAe only envisions and have modelling tests not even prototype. GJ-11 completed this and put it into service. China was at 90 and bragged and said nothing while UK was at 10 and already started marketing and media has articles writing on it. Doesn't mean just because media is hyping BAe's system, the idea is theirs or who is most ahead is them. In any case today, GJ-11 has for last three years at least been using this control system while BAe is still today sitting on models rather than even near service level prototypes.

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GJ-11 (if you follow Chinese military observers and commentators who have been proven reliable over time) has all these and the nozzle completed. This is a mockup but the real aircraft uses the completed stealth "nozzle" instead of just the typical prototype's afterburning engine nozzle. As it uses a non-afterburning version of WS-13 and makes use of control by thrust ejected through certain points along its airframe.

The whole purpose of GJ-11 is absolute total stealth to especially S and X band, more than the J-20, B-2, B-21, F-117, F-22, F-35...

Chinese state media had a documentary military show (which is common and whole channel dedicated) which had PLA interviewed saying one sentence on GJ-11 and basically implying it is PLA's greatest strike asset and after integrating its use into the wider doctrine, the performance of GJ-11 and what it is able to do for PLA is simply unprecedented. I remember the PLA guy even saying the GJ-11 ain't that impressive compared to what's being developed.

Comparing GJ-11 with Okhotnik is comparing a F-117 in Desert Storm to a Su-57 prototype. Again, China's own "Su-57" in this analogy is the Dark Sword and not the GJ-11.

Chinese 5th gens won't be for sale until China has 6th gens close to service and not just test flying. Why? because they are too sensitive! Why you say then does America export F-15 before F-22 came out? Because at that time, no single country is even close to a military threat to US in its primary war zones and of course to its homeland. They cared to make the money and even exporting it and allowing F-15 intel and data to leak to Russia or China or whoever still doesn't allow them to attack USA or affect its war zones.

UCAVs that are sensitive are near this level. I doubt China would export GJ-11 until after its replacement level and superior system is in service.

Also money ... money! ... MONEY! Can customers afford? If not, then China would rather buy more for itself or why risk it and why give any away. 5th gens are much more expensive... UCAVs maybe but 5th gen for oil rich countries I can see since even ICBMs and in some cases nuclear warheads (although kept and use controlled by China) was at least negotiated. China did sell a few countries ballistic missiles (at least MRBM type) and at least one nation was able to negotiate to buy a few or single nuclear warhead. Although these may be rumors (the warhead purchase not missiles).

Pakistan should not look to be buying 5th gen fighters before first industrializing more and improving its economic and social development fronts. These are far more important. Indian threats can be kept at bay with strong conventional forces and a nuclear force at its back. You don't need 5th gens to have a strong conventional force. These days it is clear that 5th gens (even for China) is incredibly expensive and their costs are very difficult to control even when you have economies of scale like with F-35 procurement levels across many airforces.

India buying F-35 would take some time, same as buying Su-57 and possibly even longer if buying Su-57. AMCA is a decade at least away from initial production for service. Pakistan is probably weighing its options between Chinese dedicated export 5th gen which won't be available for a while or Turkish program. See how those options go while keeping an eye on Indian 5th gen procurement.
 
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50 Jf17 block 3s will be inducted soon. Why would Pakistan only buy 25J10CEs? There will be order for more Jets. I am guessing 50 more. So our total numbers will be 400 Jets. Mirages will be in storage just incase of war. After this Pakistan will concentrate on a 5th generation Jet. If Pakistan wants more than 400 jets then the economy needs to be improved.
Everything is speculative.
it’s not helpful to speculate without sources or an explanation/logic to go along with the speculation.
We have 30 JF-17 block 3s on order at the moment, not 50, and they will not be inducted “soon” if only 10 have been built. It will take plenty of time. There will most definitely be follow up orders though.

There’s no official confirmation we have 25 J10Cs on order either, and the reason we may buy just 25 is very simple, because we don’t have money, again, it’s very likely we’ll buy more than 25, but why speculate about something before it’s confirmation? That’s not helpful to discussion.

What source or logic is there behind having 400 jets? None. We could have more, we could have less. So again, not a good assumption, unless you’re willing to back it up. Do we need 400 jets? Do we need more? Do we need less? It all really depends on the decisions IAF makes, it’s not a concrete number.

Mirages will not remain in storage for long once retired, they’ll be used for spares. Mirages will not be retired anytime soon either, at least not all of them, the ROSE mirages will continue to serve well into this decade considering there are still some some roles only they can perform (SOWs and High-volume bombing). JF-17s can do most of their roles, especially once Ra’ad is inducted on them, but definitely not all of them and not with the same range and payload.

Pakistan concentrating on a 5th Gen is inevitable, but we’re still quite a few years off that.
 
how many sqn’s are operative with PAF?

will more capable ac like jf-17 and j-10ce over f-7pg and mirages reduce the no. of sqn’s as these get replaced?
 
how many sqn’s are operative with PAF?

will more capable ac like jf-17 and j-10ce over f-7pg and mirages reduce the no. of sqn’s as these get replaced?
Please read through a thread - these answers are always available. You can also use the search function on the top mid right side
 
Aesas of Blk 3 and j10c are both GaN based aesas. Lab14 is churning out GaN aesas for PLA, PLAN, and now for PAF too. GaN is confirmed.
J10c shares tech directly from the j20. I wish I could speak.
@SQ8 should know more I presume.
 
Aesas of Blk 3 and j10c are both GaN based aesas. Lab14 is churning out GaN aesas for PLA, PLAN, and now for PAF too. GaN is confirmed.
J10c shares tech directly from the j20. I wish I could speak.
@SQ8 should know more I presume.
Not as such - but second that and some customization for the PAF includes interoperability with local DL.
 
Right now PAF has most diverse combat fleet.
J-10C
JF-17
F-16
F-7P
F-7PG
Mirage 3
Mirage 5

Sure most of them are close to retire and replace, but I will cherish every moment of it.:pakistan:

Against:

J-10C / Rafale
JF-17 / Mig-29
F-16 / SU30
F-7P / Mig-21
F-7PG / Mig-21
Mirage 3 / Mirage 2000
Mirage 5 / Mirage 2000
 
It’s an opinion and please do not use such words for a respected member.
I for example couldn’t give a damn about US arms sales and hope there will never be any again. Time and time again they have let Pakistan down.
I’d be gobsmacked if we ever see an offensive weapons sale again to Pakistan. Their congress loves India, who hilariously gave them the middle finger over Russia.
I agree USA are backstabbers.

No more American military hardware ever again.

China all the way!
 

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