PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[serenity]

Will you stop saying things like J-10C is not a frontline fighter for PLAAF? J-10C and J-16 are the same generation fighter. The only reason J-16 will get a longer production run is the same reason F-15EX is still getting produced. PLAAF needs a long range bomb truck and EW platform long after it has large number of stealth aircraft. There is no evidence J-16 technologies in radar and avionics is ahead of J-10C. There is a reason J-10C still does so well against J-16 in DACT. It's a great aircraft.

Now, as for letting out secrecy. It's definitely a concern for PLAAF that USAF may get a look at it. I think there are certain implicit understanding between PLAAF and PAF on what is okay and what is not okay. After all, USAF does not even let any F-16 users conduct DACT against PLAAF. Which is kind of crazy when you consider that PLAAF essentially conducts DACT with ROCAF F-16Vs on a monthly basis. I suspect that PAF conducting regular exercises with J-10C with non-NATO countries (and probably Turkey) is okay, but PLAAF would not want USAF to get an extended look at it.

We are arguing over semantics. Just like Mig-29 is not a frontline fighter for VVS, Su-27 is/was.

Frontline fighter I already defined carefully for readers as the heavy weight, higher tier fighters tasked with more initial combat duties to establish and maintain air superiority or at least playing a bigger role in contesting and achieving air superiority. In this sense (as I've defined and mentioned) the J-10 is not a frontline fighter. Like F-16 is not a frontline fighter. In PAF, the J-10 and F-16 are frontline fighter. I've defined frontline fighter as your best fighter or second runner up or at least part of the "best" combination of platforms. J-20 and J-16 are by PLAAF accounts and hints a two member team that are more closely integrated tactically. These are PLAAF frontline. Frontline is your best and the tip of the spear. To take control and make the job easier for your non frontline and the rest.

Can you please read carefully and tell me where I said J-10 and J-16 are not the same generation? I understand my post is long but the details and caveat are mentioned.

 

[Zarvan]

Some people just never change, time to move on my friend. Indian managed and Israeli control congress are you day dreaming or you had a special sherbet today. Lets get out of the FATF first.

Lot of things are in play. Israeli lobby exists for 70 years still we got weapons

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Will you stop saying things like J-10C is not a frontline fighter for PLAAF? J-10C and J-16 are the same generation fighter. The only reason J-16 will get a longer production run is the same reason F-15EX is still getting produced. PLAAF needs a long range bomb truck and EW platform long after it has large number of stealth aircraft. There is no evidence J-16 technologies in radar and avionics is ahead of J-10C. There is a reason J-10C still does so well against J-16 in DACT. It's a great aircraft.

Now, as for letting out secrecy. It's definitely a concern for PLAAF that USAF may get a look at it. I think there are certain implicit understanding between PLAAF and PAF on what is okay and what is not okay. After all, USAF does not even let any F-16 users conduct DACT against PLAAF. Which is kind of crazy when you consider that PLAAF essentially conducts DACT with ROCAF F-16Vs on a monthly basis. I suspect that PAF conducting regular exercises with J-10C with non-NATO countries (and probably Turkey) is okay, but PLAAF would not want USAF to get an extended look at it.

I think the PAF will keep the J-10CE close to its chest. Just as the PLAAF doesn't want info on the fighter getting out, the PAF will want to prevent India from knowing much either. For at least the first 5 years, the only F-16s the J-10CE will likely take on are the PAF's F-16s (whose crews have trained in Red Flag, for what it's worth).

But it would be pretty interesting if, one day, Israeli F-16s fly up against Pakistani J-10CEs in some Anatolian Eagle exercise. It'd be pretty awkward...

 

[帅的一匹]

I think the PAF will keep the J-10CE close to its chest. Just as the PLAAF doesn't want info on the fighter getting out, the PAF will want to prevent India from knowing much either. For at least the first 5 years, the only F-16s the J-10CE will likely take on are the PAF's F-16s (whose crews have trained in Red Flag, for what it's worth).

But it would be pretty interesting if, one day, Israeli F-16s fly up against Pakistani J-10CEs in some Anatolian Eagle exercise. It'd be pretty awkward...

PAF is very smart, they do know what they should do for its own good.

 

[Riz]

Now PAF can do combat excercise by flying J10cp against F16?

For years and years PAF flying its F-7s with F-16s , F-15 , and F-22 of USAF , it means F-7 extracted all the data of F-22 and F-16s and becomes equivalent of them now

 

[mudas777]

Lot of things are in play. Israeli lobby exists for 70 years still we got weapons

India was not in the picture at that time and capital hill was not used to dancing to the tunes of the Indian mantra. India and Israel were not strategically that close at that time, since then undisclosed agreements are in place for each other support and aid.
Unless something drastic happens like 9/11, somehow Kashmir issue resolved or Pakistan leaves Chinese camp altogether or India does something extremely untoward, you are swimming against the tide.
I will give you credit for your undying optimism baring those 4 above factors, lets not wait for some crumbs and spend our energies on sharpening up J 10.

 

[MastanKhan]

I don't understand the wholesale butthurt over a hypothetical scenario.
why have all the bleeding hearts decided that China has placed some sort of a ban on PAF to fly these jets with Western airforces?
its a two way stream remember, PAF (and in tern China) will also be gathering information about how these Jets fare against the other Western platforms. its not jsut Americans stealing the universal secrets of J-10s.

moving on, Chinese "fictional" reservations aside, it will be PAF's call whether to deploy these jets in such exercises or not because again .. such information (of a silver bullet) can trickle down to other "allies" of Americans that don't have very "cordial" terms with Pakistan.

NOW.. F-16 being a whore?
this Whore has kept the soviets at bay during first Afghan War and kept Indians sleepless since they were acquired and their fears were realized when these same F 16s who call whores shot down two IAF jets and the Modi's pride to the ground.


sell them out? we are talking J-10 NOT J-20.
what is so ground breaking and ahead of its time in this modest medium size single engine jet that Americans will be so keen to find out if they haven't done already though their conventional and electronic espionage ? does it carry some plasma shielding and directed energy weapons technology? does it use some phasing technology?

Hi,

People don't understand / comprehend the capabilities of the US. The US has assets that analyze opponents equipment---and there is hardly ever an assessment that misses the mark.

The J 10 C is an extremely capable aircraft---but it is not the aircraft alone---it is the total air combat package that is fighting a war.

Secondly---it is both with the understanding and nod from the chinese that the aircrafts---the JF17's and J10's would be competing against the other air forces---because if they don't compete---how would we know the shortcomings.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Nice emotional low performance capability acceptance comments.

Tactically---it would have been better not to have retaliated at all till the Paf had the capability to smash them to kingdom come in one go.

Now with this ill-conceived performance---Paf has given all its electronic warfare tactical advantage away just for a little rarararara---and chest thumping---and Paf will never be able to regain that strength again---.

All the tactical advantage that the Paf had is gone---.

Hi,

When I read what Golda Meir told the american reporter about Prophet Mohammad---that till the last day---the day he died----0ur beloved Prophet Mohammad pbuh was prepared for war---with 8 swords hanging on the wall of his room---it was an eye opener---shocking you might call---when you realize that our Paf gave away 5 billion dollars assigned for a major weapon system---to charity to be looted and plundered---.

But then I also learn---on that same day---the day he died------he possibly was starving as well---because there was no flour in the house and his widow pawned his chain mail to get some flour and oil---.

Lot of things are in play. Israeli lobby exists for 70 years still we got weapons

Hi,

Israeli lobby became strong after the arabs lost the 67 war---. At that time the american realized that they arabs may not offer them much.

 

[applesauce]

The relationship between these two countries is symbiotic, there is a two-way mimicry in Armed forces of both countries. Pakistan has provided much needed help to China in the 20th Century. They both provide a physical escape to each other from potential blockades, Sino-Pak Arc creates a by-pass. In addition to this there is 70 years of history of trust which is probably far more important in Eastern-Oriental context. For most people including Millennial Chinese and Pakistanis, it is hard to understand what China has to gain from Pakistan in this day and age (besides the Indian factor) but there is more to it, for both countries this relationship is long term hedge against unknown odds.

My understanding is that even if Pakistan goes further down in its rabbit hole of corruption and incompetence, China is still not leaving Pakistani side, Pakistan will still be getting diplomatic support, latest tech and weapons on subsidized price. In comparison to North Korea, Pakistan is a thousand times more useful for China, hack they are still holding North Korea's hand.

In Pakistan's case, Chinese are actually delighted to see Pakistan fully in their camp and out of American Influence. I expect a lot more support and hand holding for the rest of the 21st century.

and i said absolutely nothing different.

what i said was, IF Pakistan went off the deep end and decided to betray china by allowing the americans a deep look into domestic use chinese tech.
with such a betrayal , china would then respond by never allowing pakistan access to such tech again.

and if push came to shove:

the choice between a Pakistan/india balance subcontinent but the US gets a deep looks at what chinese uses itself.
or
a india dominated subcontinent, but chinese tech is safe from americans.

Then china would choose a indian dominated one because the US is a much bigger fish than india.

 

[帅的一匹]

and i said absolutely nothing different.

what i said was, IF Pakistan went off the deep end and decided to betray china by allowing the americans a deep look into domestic use chinese tech.
with such a betrayal , china would then respond by never allowing pakistan access to such tech again.

and if push came to shove:

the choice between a Pakistan/india balance subcontinent but the US gets a deep looks at what chinese uses itself.
or
a india dominated subcontinent, but chinese tech is safe from americans.

Then china would choose a indian dominated one because the US is a much bigger fish than india.

Your comment is not realistic, Pakistan government and PAF is brilliant, they will not listen to PDF member as how to deploy J10cp

It won’t surprise if J10cp conduct DACT with UAE Rafale in the future. Let us push J10c to it’s fucking limit.

 

[applesauce]

Your comment is not realistic, Pakistan government and PAF is brilliant, they will not listen to PDF member as how to deploy J10cp

i never said it would happen.

in my other post i literally said i dont think the Pakistani government is that stupid.

 

[帅的一匹]

There is no friend or foe forever, geopolitics decide everything.

 

[kursed]

J-10C isn't really defined as frontline fighter for PLAAF. Frontline fighter being the top fighters and force multiplier types which would certainly be J-20 and J-16 as frontline. J-10C are support fighters and number fillers. With air combat for air superiority, it is frontline fighters performing major mission of denying airspace and contesting it while taking out strategic assets and pushing ahead to take out launching platforms.

All things opsec are secretive and sensitive to some degree. J-10C is used as most modern J-10 version in PLAAF. This is not some modernized J-7 which if all revealed and they know about China's 1990s and early 2000s mods for J-7 which is highly limited platform to mod on for 2000s level technology, then fine whatever.

J10C provides baseline info on Chinese tech, Pakistan will not open the doorway to access of Chinese systems to the West. It's not going to happen. Simple. Everything else is just conjuncture. I mean they literally are not even using MB seats on the type, so as to keep access restricted. What does that tell you?

 

[Khanivore]

It would be interesting to see a PAF J-10C perform at Farnborough or at Paris Air Show. More interesting would be if the Qatari, Egyptian or UAE Rafales are pitched against PAF J-10Cs in an Exercise and how they performed.

 

[aliyusuf]

The relationship between these two countries is symbiotic, there is a two-way mimicry in Armed forces of both countries. Pakistan has provided much needed help to China in the 20th Century. They both provide a physical escape to each other from potential blockades, Sino-Pak Arc creates a by-pass. In addition to this there is 70 years of history of trust which is probably far more important in Eastern-Oriental context. For most people including Millennial Chinese and Pakistanis, it is hard to understand what China has to gain from Pakistan in this day and age (besides the Indian factor) but there is more to it, for both countries this relationship is long term hedge against unknown odds.

My understanding is that even if Pakistan goes further down in its rabbit hole of corruption and incompetence, China is still not leaving Pakistani side, Pakistan will still be getting diplomatic support, latest tech and weapons on subsidized price. In comparison to North Korea, Pakistan is a thousand times more useful for China, hack they are still holding North Korea's hand.

In Pakistan's case, Chinese are actually delighted to see Pakistan fully in their camp and out of American Influence. I expect a lot more support and hand holding for the rest of the 21st century.

You have summed it up quite aptly.