PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Polestar 2]

Exactly just as induction of VT4s doesn't mean that Alkhalid is a useless piece of equipment.
We just couldn't produce enough of them; both due to economic constraints as well as limited production capabilities.
However like VT4, J10 does bring in some new technologies and improvements.

That is not the point. Point is a lot of Pakistanis think J-10 has little improvement over JF-17 or even no different in combat improvement despite the fact, JF-17 is a lightweight multi role fighter while J-10 are medium weight class fighter with improvement in thrust, performance, payload and bigger airframe for better avionics. Of course, the cost for J-10 is much higher too.

If by such theory, all PLAAF needs is J-20 and all other fighter planes can retired now.

 

[alee92nawaz]

At most i would say its not J-11.

Definitely not J-11. Could be something similar. Rumours by fanboys also indicate of some F-16 upgrades

 

[SQ8]

Since I am not going to be able to reply for a while, just adding this.

One of those Indian idiots on PDF said India has paid for an enhanced SPECTRA that works in VHF/UHF range, i.e., with radio waves. For a long time I thought the French have ripped them off, until it hit me that a formation of Rafales can certainly act as receiver and can certainly use active cancellation against radar waves. This means even those anti-stealth radars would not be effective. I mean, this IS SUPER SCARY stuff. I hope PAF top brass aren't sleeping on the job.

Being integrated with the airframe of the aircraft may provide it an advantage(just as AIDEWS is within the block-52s) but it doesnt render it invisible.
Coordinating EW is something they are capable of but that is against singular emitters so they could focus on a targeting radar of a SAM system and reduce the range it can engage them at.
Against a coordinated ADGE it doesnt work as well. My concern is those Rafale's using the low level range and flexibility of the Hammer AGMs to blow holes in Pakistani AD whilst making PAF Interceptors move away with Meteors to create a door in for follow on IAF strikes a few minutes behind.

 

[Raja Porus]

My concern is those Rafale's using the low level range and flexibility of the Hammer AGMs to blow holes in Pakistani AD whilst making PAF Interceptors move away with Meteors to create a door in for follow on IAF strikes a few minutes behind.

Dear tge time when PDF used to discuss such things is gone, unfortunately.

 

[Trango Towers]

Being integrated with the airframe of the aircraft may provide it an advantage(just as AIDEWS is within the block-52s) but it doesnt render it invisible.
Coordinating EW is something they are capable of but that is against singular emitters so they could focus on a targeting radar of a SAM system and reduce the range it can engage them at.
Against a coordinated ADGE it doesnt work as well. My concern is those Rafale's using the low level range and flexibility of the Hammer AGMs to blow holes in Pakistani AD whilst making PAF Interceptors move away with Meteors to create a door in for follow on IAF strikes a few minutes behind.

If you can think of this - do u think no one at PAF has not worked out tactics to counter. This game of cat and moses will always exist

 

[Ghessan]

this new shift arising with China taking over the region with its doctrine and Pakistan an obvious and active player...

we were required to follow a new stance and play the part that is the need of the hour. it would be the time that will come, in my opinion, Pakistan will play a part in the region like Israel and there will be a backing from the giant who soon will challenge the world with the financial influence.

only hurdle is IMF for which we have to work real hard and a lot.

Chinese are doing their homework to fight the economic war that US is going to impose on them. US realize, while busy in wars they have delayed things by giving China couple of good decades to stand, there is no stopping to it hence the only front is economy to attack.

There must be a strategic alliance talked of between China and Pakistan and is well defined and understood to which this new induction is the part of and hopefully we will see a lot coming in several ways.

the thing that is most crucial about this induction is the availability of parts and spare besides emergency induction of assets during war. Pakistan affected by the sanctions during past wars, this time we will enjoy something else.

the other thing is Pakistan is not in a position to rapidly up the numbers on the basis of JF-17 only. we need dollars for that which is standing at 178 too expensive to buy. it is easy to procure an asset and pay later and we will not stop at a squadron or two, this acquisition will be big.

so in my opinion, the question of comparing J-10 to JF-17, their capabilities, new asset, favoring this or that, sets a side.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Indian media finally picking up the news after Indians on twitters cited this thread on pdf.

Pakistan's New Squadron Of Fighter Jets To "Counter" India's Rafale

Pakistan has acquired a full squadron of 25 Chinese multirole J-10C fighter jets in response to India's purchase of Rafale aircraft, Pakistan's Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said on Wednesday.

www.ndtv.com

 

[Trailer23]

Indian media finally picking up the news after Indians on twitters cited this thread on pdf.

Pakistan's New Squadron Of Fighter Jets To "Counter" India's Rafale

Pakistan has acquired a full squadron of 25 Chinese multirole J-10C fighter jets in response to India's purchase of Rafale aircraft, Pakistan's Interior Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said on Wednesday.

www.ndtv.com

India Today beat them to it yesterday right after Sheikh sahab's Press Conference.

News, seems to have reached East of Pakistan - and i'm not talking about our friends in China.

Pakistan confirms raising squadron of Chinese J-10C in response to India's Rafale jets​

The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale.

Ankit Kumar
December 29, 2021

Putting the speculations to rest, the government of Pakistan has confirmed the acquisition of at least 25 Chinese J-10C fighter jets for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). Pakistan's interior minister Sheikh Rashid told reporters in Rawalpindi on Wednesday that a squadron of 25 China-made jets would participate in a fly-past on 23 March. The minister touted the Chinese jets as "an answer to India's Rafale jets".

However, the minister misarticulated the name of the jets repeatedly during his interaction, referring to the jets as "Chinese JS-10". While rumours of Pakistan acquiring Chinese jets have been doing rounds for a long time, a big question mark remains over the claims of the Chinese jets competence against the advanced French Rafale.

Although China has been using the J-10C multirole fighter aircraft to replace its much older J-7E fighters at the People's Liberation Army Air Force's (PLAAF's) brigades, it relied on its much-advanced J-20 stealth jets when it came to monitoring of the crucial Taiwan Strait and East China Sea.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1462021415276670987

The J-10C is considered a capable workhorse of the Chinese air force, but it falls below the cutting-edge capabilities of the Rafale. Commentary in Chinese state media often looks to place the mid-sized fighter jet closer to the Rafale but Rafale's integrated architecture, superior sensors and overall combat capabilities set it apart.

With a distinct advantage in thrust and superior short-range missile, Rafale scores over the J-10C with better kill probability during Within Visual Range (WVR) combat. The combination of RBE2 AESA radar with the Meteor missile in Rafale provides a distinct advantage in the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat as well. Rafale's electronic warfare suite is also believed to be the most capable in its class.

The J-10C jets have been sighted during the China-Pakistan joint air exercises recently. Weeks before the formal announcements, the J-10C model was spotted in the pictures of the Pakistan Air Force Chief's office.

The Imran Khan Government's intentions to acquire the Chinese jets have already been questioned by the opposition. "I don't think the J-10C is as good as the Rafale also. We should have invested this money in building Project Azm and enhancing JF-17 capabilities," Dr Afnan Ullah Khan had posted on Twitter, earlier this month.

 

[Pappa Alpha]

All branches of Pak armed forces are getting new equipment at a rapid pace even with current state of economy. The higher ups must be predicting war before 2030.

 

[Mav3rick]

There is no J-10D version available for export yet. What Pakistan bought is probably J-10CE but more tailored for PAF. This doesn't mean it is a better version of J-10CE or a tailored to be cheaper version. We don't know much about the purchase.

J-10D was rumored on Chinese forums as either something that was speculated to be a PAF version of J-10CE or as a new block upgrade from J-10C.

It is very lucky PAF can train against Rafale and possibly even gain some sensitive insight although I doubt Qatar would allow this even if it is friends with friends this sort of revealing everything is rarely done or done with a high price. Still being able to learn some things about Rafale is good for PAF. The Indians have best version of Rafale which Egypt and Qatar do not use.

J-10C was inducted in 2018 which means that development started many years ago, similarly, the next iteration must be just round the corner as it's been over 3 years already. Maybe a better engine, bigger AESA, integrated sensors and a more natural fusion etc. Anyway......

I have read that our Pilots have trained on Qatari Rafale and hence would be aware of the combat capabilities. If we can plan a few exercises with UAE (once it acquires the Rafale, the most recent iteration), we would have a much better picture.

No they do not. That is pure overhype and blatant lie regarding the capabilities of that system. It is an excellent integrated EW system but every PAF radar will pick up the Rafale Spectra or not. In some case turning the Spectra on will actually put the Rafale on some really nead ELINT systems that sit on the ground as part of PAF ADGE.

I hope that it is indeed a lie; however, I would rather rest easy after testing the system than be complacent and ignorant. Plus, we have a grand experience with Mirages and most rate the Mirages on par, if not better in some aspects, to the F-16's which means that the Rafale would be in the class of F-35s with less reliance on stealth.

 

[Deino]

If true it's a Shame! Paf should of waited for J-31 latest and greatest 5gth gen we can buy. Anything J-10 offers we can get it in Jf-17 it just doesn't make sense.

If Paf would of went with J-31 we would of been the 2nd or 3rd county in Asia to have 5th gen stealth aircraft and a true qualitative edge over India.

My 2 cents

Maybe, but the point is, the J-31 (in fact not existent) or the J-35 won't be available until later the dacade and given that it now is a PLA project, I'm sure it will take even longer before it is available for export.

Patience bro ...... J-31 will be coming as well. Just wait for about 2-years.
...

Never, the FC-31 - PLEASE: There is no J-31! - was proposed as an export fighter long ago, and did not proceed, so even if Pakistan will order it today, it will at least take 5-7 years (similar to the J-20) from real prototype maiden flight to service entry and again, since it is now is a PLA naval project, I'm sure it won't be available in a customised land-based export variant before 2030-2035.

 

[Mav3rick]

If it was in the realm of possibility to achieve limited stealth by means of some electronic and or electromagnetic means why would nations spend hundreds of billions in developing actual stealth airframes, ram coatings and passive sensors, French are master of creating hype and up selling their mid-tier tech.

I do not trust the words of the French, I trust the words of my own pilots who love their Mirages and hence it is a testament to the French aviation industry.

Besides, what exactly is the purpose of stealth? To protect the attacker from defensive measures, right? What if the EW suite on a Jet performs so supremely that it outclasses all enemy counter measures, would it not effectively perform the same function? I read somewhere that F-22 does some of those tricks too, to the point where an F-16 pilot could visually spot the Jet and yet it was not visible on any of the electronic devices.

 

[Rank]

Yes, exactly......especially when Imran Khan was so considerate with his Dharna; right?

On a serious note, J-10C against Rafale!!! I wonder how good the J-10C are and how they would perform against Rafale, Spectra and the French BVR.

Will perform same as PAF performed against Bkhat Airforce susu-shit-30 in 2019 27 Feb…

 

[Deino]

Thrust vectoring on the j10C .. super maneuverability

J10C with WS10B TVC showed what a marvel of modern engineering it was at the Zhuhai airshow in 2018

it showed Chinese engineering had reached the best Western counter parts

PAF pilots will love the TVC on this aircraft

No, so far only one single J-10B testbed was fitted with the TVC-variant ... so why again these wet-dreams, Pakistan might get an as yet not operational TVC-variant?

In some other groups, some are already wet-dreaming of a WS-15-powered super-variant! Guys ... stay realistic, then the disappointment is not too great afterwards.

 

[truthseeker2010]

No, so far only one single J-10B testbed was fitted with the TVC-variant ... so why again these wet-dreams, Pakistan might get an as yet not operational TVC-variant?

In some other groups, some are already wet-dreaming of a WS-15-powered super-variant! Guys ... stay realistic, then the disappointment is not too great afterwards.

After going through different military forums, i see that battles on internet these days are more hi-tech than they are in reality.