PAF Exercise Saffron Bandit 2012-13

[Alphacharlie]

Even a AEW&C cant 'drive' a BVR fired from the fighter to its target. You need a radar lock for this and a AEW&C won't come such closer to the enemy fighter to get the same. Too dangerous for it. |It is several times described here by professionals but their machines can do anything.

You are incorrect Sir.

I can use an Aerostat Radar Barrage and fire a R77 or MICA or Super 530 provided there is a Data link to Track the Boogie with Launching Platform A/c . Point (2) Lock the Boogie with it activating Jamming Signal (Electonic Wave duplication) and Point (3) Launching Plat form having effective Range Missile.

To fire an Infra Red SEEKER MISSILE I dont need active Radar or AWE&C Support....In simple Terms from a CESNA you can fire R73. Other such Missiles - AIM-132 ASRAAM, IRIS-T, MICA IR, Python IV

 

[Manticore]

Neighbor


- PAF Bought : "AEW&C" Not AWACS ie SAAB 2000 ERIEYE.

first post
http://www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/121866-awacs-aew-cs-aircrafts-designs.html#post1970524

 

[rockstarIN]

You are incorrect Sir.

I can use an Aerostat Radar Barrage and fire a R77 or MICA or Super 530 provided there is a Data link to Track the Boogie with Launching Platform A/c . Point (2) Lock the Boogie with it activating Jamming Signal (Electonic Wave duplication) and Point (3) Launching Plat form having effective Range Missile.

To fire an Infra Red SEEKER MISSILE I dont need active Radar or AWE&C Support....In simple Terms from a CESNA you can fire R73. Other such Missiles - AIM-132 ASRAAM, IRIS-T, MICA IR, Python IV

It is highly ineffective, you need a radar lock by either the A/c or the AEWAC or Aerostat radar. Merely tracking the boogie idnt enough and the radar horming will be ineffective once the boogie switch off their radar. And I'm talking about BVR here not |R-73 or such heat seeking missiles.

 

[Alphacharlie]

It is highly ineffective, you need a radar lock by either the A/c or the AEWAC or Aerostat radar. Merely tracking the boogie idnt enough and the radar horming will be ineffective once the boogie switch off their radar. And I'm talking about BVR here not |R-73 or such heat seeking missiles.

Sir have already replied to you under point 1

I can use an Aerostat Radar Barrage and fire a R77 or MICA or Super 530 provided there is a Data link to Track the Boogie with Launching Platform A/c . Point (2) Lock the Boogie with it activating Jamming Signal (Electonic Wave duplication) and Point (3) Launching Plat form having effective Range Missile.

 

[Windjammer]

It's called Inception
.

I would call it successful Interceptions.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, AM: TROOPS ON THE MOVE?

A number of people travelling between Lahore and Rawalpindi over the past two days have reported that a heavy redeployment by the army was under way.

“Long convoys of military trucks are heading towards Lahore from Jehlum,” Jawad Khan, a motorist, told Dawn.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, PM: Aircraft Descriptions:

Lahore: 2x Indian Air Force Su-30 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 3x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 3x F-7s
Muzaffarabad: 3x Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 2x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 2x F-7s.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, PM: Emergency declared at Shorkot, Sarghoda airbases

SARGHODA: Emergency has been declared at Shorkot and Sarghoda airbases on Sunday after India violated Pakistan air spaces twice on Saturday by sending its fire jets.

According to sources, Indian Air Force sent its fighter jets into Pakistan air spaces on Saturday in Lahore and Kashmir areas which were forced to go back by Pakistani fighter jets.

Now I hope your bewildered minds can rest so we can get back to the topic.

 

[rockstarIN]

Sir have already replied to you under point 1

I can use an Aerostat Radar Barrage and fire a R77 or MICA or Super 530 provided there is a Data link to Track the Boogie with Launching Platform A/c . Point (2) Lock the Boogie with it activating Jamming Signal (Electonic Wave duplication) and Point (3) Launching Plat form having effective Range Missile.

What will lock the boogie, A/c Radar or Areostat radar?

 

[arp2041]

I would call it successful Interceptions.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, AM: TROOPS ON THE MOVE?

A number of people travelling between Lahore and Rawalpindi over the past two days have reported that a heavy redeployment by the army was under way.

“Long convoys of military trucks are heading towards Lahore from Jehlum,” Jawad Khan, a motorist, told Dawn.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, PM: Aircraft Descriptions:

Lahore: 2x Indian Air Force Su-30 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 3x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 3x F-7s
Muzaffarabad: 3x Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 2x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 2x F-7s.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, PM: Emergency declared at Shorkot, Sarghoda airbases

SARGHODA: Emergency has been declared at Shorkot and Sarghoda airbases on Sunday after India violated Pakistan air spaces twice on Saturday by sending its fire jets.

According to sources, Indian Air Force sent its fighter jets into Pakistan air spaces on Saturday in Lahore and Kashmir areas which were forced to go back by Pakistani fighter jets.

Now I hope your bewildered minds can rest so we can get back to the topic.

First, obviously they had to get back to India, they weren't gone to Pakistan on a long vacation.

Second, this infact says much more than what you are conveying, for 2 sukhois to be intercepted, PAF had to send 3* F-16s & 3*F-7 = 6 fighter ac.

And for 3 mirage, PAF had to send 2*F-16s & 2*F-7s = 4 ac.

Is this how parity is achieved??

Third, if as much as 5 IAF ac had violated the International border & went deep inside Pakistan, than why not even 1 was shot down???

Fourth, how does it prove your point that F-7 had a lock on su-30mki??

 

[ice_man]

The CJCSC inside an AWACS Aircraft.

The Air Chief sitting in an F-16, participating in the exercise.

2 questions are the monitors off and is this the ZDK or the Ereiye?

secondly does this excercise take place only in the plains of punjab or even sindh and does the navy get involved too?

 

[Viper0011.]

Your Eminence - So Mig 21 Type 15 with RSt RANGE of 42 Km is BVR. Then, what is effective Radar Tracking Range ?

Dont give me knowledge its supported by AWACS. AWACS can Vector an Aircraft to Target and Data Transfer can happen through Link 16 Net Data Transfer ONLY if the recipient is A NATO Registered Aircraft or Ally.

Where as J-7 is not nor is its Linked Through Link 16, So AIR to AIR Beyond Visual Range Missile cannt be "Auto Targeted" .

Only information your J -7 PILOT will get is Saffron Bandits Coordinates from AEW&Cs by then it will be too late as Su 30 would have erased you from a distance of 110Km

Point 2 , Su 30 Can paint your AEW&C with range over 200 Km Target size being over 1.8 Sqm

So please Dont Give me Bullshit of a SU 30 being Painted and erased by a J7

Point 3, beyond-visual-range missile (BVR) NEEDs to have a Min range of 40km.This means Radar can give and Lock the Traget with all EW Clutter on.

Now CUT THE CRAP

Pakistan has a ton of Radars (including Aerosats) that can guide an AIM9X from a distance of about 22 KM. So if you took off from FOB's, you can hit anything within 20 second after the take off all the way (a few miles into) the Indian territory. I won't call this an AMRAAM type bvr but it does stop incoming jets around the border & point defense. And if the plane took off from 30 KM's off the border....how could the SU-30 or anything lock on it because there wasn't any signature because the plane was on the ground....??? If you want to test & waste an R-77, have at it.

And just so you know, the AWACS (the US ones) not only vector the planes, but they also provide supervision all the way till the payload's delivered. Specially with the UCAV systems, the future is all AWACs, Global Hawks and Unmanned Drones doing the work. Humans will ONLY point, lock and tell the UCAV to unleash hell when it's the right time and place.

Last but not least, Safron doesn't represent Hinduism. It DOES represent India. There is nothing wrong with it as India has been the main adversary. On a different note, at least they are not calling the enemy 'the Indian jet' in this case...there are plenty of times when India has done that openly on media!!
Let's all turn 21, be adults and quit trolling. It is what it is. I'd rather have you guys call each other Safron Bandit and Crescent Invader than an actual war. Pipe dreams can be fulfilled without nukes getting involved!

 

[Safriz]

2 questions are the monitors off and is this the ZDK or the Ereiye?

secondly does the Air chief fly comabt sorties in excercise????

The picture was taken on ground so everybody most probably just posing for the cameras.

Air cheif flew a mission for an hour this time.

 

[Windjammer]

First, obviously they had to get back to India, they weren't gone to Pakistan on a long vacation.

They were in fact forced to flee back to India. !!

Second, this infact says much more than what you are conveying, for 2 sukhois to be intercepted, PAF had to send 3* F-16s & 3*F-7 = 6 fighter ac.

And for 3 mirage, PAF had to send 2*F-16s & 2*F-7s = 4 ac.

Is this how parity is achieved??

What, do you need a lesson in aerial warfare, when there is aggression and aerial violations from the enemy, you put your force up to meet and neutralise the challenge,....is there any guarantee the enemy will send only two or two dozen aircrafts.

Third, if as much as 5 IAF ac had violated the International border & went deep inside Pakistan, than why not even 1 was shot down???

One could ask, since the Indian aircraft came in armed, why didn't they follow up with any attacks, there were some issues on ROE. !!

Fourth, how does it prove your point that F-7 had a lock on su-30mki??

Show me one post where i claimed that it was an F-7, i always maintained that the MKIs were locked on by F-16s, a HUD image of which was shown to the then American Commander.

 

[karan.1970]

No, he's referring to your nightmares which you keep thinking was just a bad dream.

So you do agree that the incident in question is unreal.. All we disagree on is whether its your dream or my nightmare.. Right ??

 

[Alphacharlie]

Pakistan has a ton of Radars (including Aerosats) that can guide an AIM9X from a distance of about 22 KM. So if you took off from FOB's, you can hit anything within 20 second after the take off all the way (a few miles into) the Indian territory. I won't call this an AMRAAM type bvr but it does stop incoming jets around the border & point defense. And if the plane took off from 30 KM's off the border....how could the SU-30 or anything lock on it because there wasn't any signature because the plane was on the ground....??? If you want to test & waste an R-77, have at it.

And just so you know, the AWACS (the US ones) not only vector the planes, but they also provide supervision all the way till the payload's delivered. Specially with the UCAV systems, the future is all AWACs, Global Hawks and Unmanned Drones doing the work. Humans will ONLY point, lock and tell the UCAV to unleash hell when it's the right time and place.

Last but not least, Safron doesn't represent Hinduism. It DOES represent India. There is nothing wrong with it as India has been the main adversary. On a different note, at least they are not calling the enemy 'the Indian jet' in this case...there are plenty of times when India has done that openly on media!!
Let's all turn 21, be adults and quit trolling. It is what it is. I'd rather have you guys call each other Safron Bandit and Crescent Invader than an actual war. Pipe dreams can be fulfilled without nukes getting involved!

Per my knowledge US has not sold L-88 Aerostats to Pakistan. If yes, then is it X Band Rdar ?

PAF has been polished by Americans till Mid 90s and has been given Best of Radars. Only 3rd Generation AEW&cs Can control UAV/UCAV . Erieye 2000 doesnt have this Capability Nor does ZDK Nor Does Phalcon EL/W-2075

I can track Hostile A/C from Aerostats but to launch a Projectile at a Bandit I need a A/C in air which is connected by Net Centric Link. Pakistan does not have this.

Indian FOB are having Battle surveillance from Sats in addition to Forward Operating Radars. So you Assertion is rejected.
Also, Sus have been based in Locations Like Halwara/Sirsa /Bhuj All over 110 Km Inside...............

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

2 questions are the monitors off and is this the ZDK or the Ereiye?

secondly does this excercise take place only in the plains of punjab or even sindh and does the navy get involved too?

i guss the flat screen of the monitors is the reason u think its off...these displays often have black backgrounds and minimum colour and thus less light coms off them and the angle at which the pic is taken i dont think any radar lines or blips ll be visible.

 

[Jango]

Per my knowledge US has not sold L-88 Aerostats to Pakistan. If yes, then is it X Band Rdar ?