PAF could have downed more Indian planes in Pulwama crisis: ex-air chief

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[Falcon34]

It was never the Army Chief's call to shoot down Balakot strike package. Defence of Pak air space is primarily the responsibility of PAF, not the PA AD which otherwise didnt have the assets to shoot them.

If that is the case isn't a failure of combined operations, would this not create chaotic situation like the 65 where the army and airforce are doing their thing, or like there is noaccountability for chief, do whatever u want and nobody gives a damn, i thought we had passed that era, but here we are stuck in that same loop.

 

[TheSolution]

If that is the case isn't a failure of combined operations, would this not create chaotic situation like the 65 where the army and airforce are doing their thing, or like there is noaccountability for chief, do whatever u want and nobody gives a damn, i thought we had passed that era, but here we are stuck in that same loop.

This is from an international report released in 2011... much time after '65.

Seems like the ability to adapt, learn, and improve is lacking overall in the country, not just in military-related things

 

[undercover JIX]

That anger is understandable,but unleashing hell against IAF would have crushed any possibility of de-escalation because Indian ego would have been FUBAR and then they would have to respond, starting a cycle. For the PAF, it would have been another difficult choice. Either go full bore and neutralize IAF on the ground or be prepared for full scale defensive deployment to counter any further attempt. I guess letting the enemy save face prevented a mini war, atleast in terms of own deployment.

I am talking about protecting borders, not unleashing hell or the response.

 

[TopGun786]

Keep dancing to the one stunt. Which was at most a tactical victory in battle, otherwise strategically u lost Kashmir forever........

Fact remains, not a single PAF jet came within 100KM of intruding IAF jets.

My advice.... Better to remain silent. The more you will talk, the more you will get yourself in mess.
And that's true. After failed Balakot strikes IAF jet fled so fast with full afterburner on and tails in their legs fled so fast with full afterburners on and tails in their legs that not even a mach 4 missile could have captured them

 

[White privilege]

But still they attacked Pakistan internationally, in Balakot Pakistan proper

That is what I call a 'lucky backdoor'. IAF was able to sling SOWs towards Balakot, while still remaining inside disputed territory , because of the geography. However Pakistan does not have a straight shot towards Himachal or Indian Punjab if we try to attack by crossing the LOC....may be we can, with proper force, but it is useless to do so just for the sake of a capability demonstration operation like Swift Retort...

 

[GuySajerGD1943]

I assume you're talking about laundered money by politicians? That's probably unlikely. But I agree with the second part of your assessment, it's not that far-fetched and could hold some truth.

But Pakistan needs to urgently focus on stabilising and growing it's economy.

To deal with India the nuclear threshold should be raised so they don't interfere in our affairs. And then we need to focus on stabilising Pakistan internally by tackling insurgencies and any societal polarisation present.

Perhaps cut down on some of the army size to free up funding in other areas, this will be possible because the nuclear threshold will be raised.

I’m a Muslim with Iman. There are Muslims in Pakistan but Islam is missing. My heroes fought at Badr, Karbala, Uhud, defeated the two mightiest empires of its times. If these MINOs had an ounce of that courage, Pakistan wouldn’t be in such a mess that it finds itself today. Hell even the bullsh*t “blasphemy” laws were created by the Brits and kept by the colonial army to keep us down. This stuff isn’t some conspiracy theory. The proof so in the pudding.

That is what I call a 'lucky backdoor'. IAF was able to sling SOWs towards Balakot, while still remaining inside disputed territory , because of the geography. However Pakistan does not have a straight shot towards Himachal or Indian Punjab if we try to attack by crossing the LOC....may be we can, with proper force, but it is useless to do so just for the sake of a capability demonstration operation like Swift Retort...

Luck or no luck, they clearly bombed Pakistan and luckily missed a school full of kids. I pray these sellouts pay for their traitor acts against the poor souls of Pakistan. Drunk diplomat run over innocent civilians, we led them go. Foreign sponsored NGOs running amok literally spreading filth destroying the social fabric of the country, we turn a blind eye, a hateful pagan nation attempts to murder our school kids, we say oh lucky shot or oh they missed so its okay. Is there anyone in the colonial army has any shame or self respect left?

 

[truthseeker2010]

My advice.... Better to remain silent. The more you will talk, the more you will get yourself in mess.
And if that's true. After failed Balakot strikes IAF jet fled so fast with full afterburner on and tails in their legs that not even a mach fled so fast with full afterburner on and tails in their legs that not even a mach 4 missile could have captured them

Read again, i said it is tactical victory for paf and pak and that is about it. Meanwhile India legalized its part of kashmir, and integrated in its constitution.

 

[GuySajerGD1943]

Read again, i said it is tactical victory for paf and pak and that is about it. Meanwhile India legalized its part of kashmir, and integrated in its constitution.

Exactly. Had Pakistan really put the boot up the Indian behinds, I guaranteed Pakistan would be in a more secure position today.

I have personal grudge against the eastern rats. I left the imam bargah and 40 mins later, 3 suicide bombers killed 100+ people there. This was in Lahore on Imam Ali (as) shahadat in 2010.

 

[Olympus81]

Reason IAF did not escalate may be, they found out the PAF F16s armed with AMRAAMs were active with no curbs set by the US.

Or the electric warfare that PAF and the AD technique caught them by surprise.

 

[VkdIndian]

PAF edged out IAF on BVR range and secure communication. That it.
IAF pilots did well and inspite of claims, they were able to evade multiple AMRAAMs showing there skills in BVR tactics. Abhinandan was shot down because open comms were jammed.


IAF couldn’t get both of these inspite of years of effort. These were stalled by unique procurement babudom in India. Soon after Balakot and that skirmish, these loopholes were plugged promptly.

This showed that PAF was better in procuring stuff. Look at Rafale vs J10. Rafale procurement process has taken ages while PAF finalised and inducted J10s in much shorter and efficient timelines.

At the same time, people claiming that PAF would have shot down half the IAF is a laughable claim.

 

[Olympus81]

More than the downed Mig21, the accolade was the launch of standoff weapons on Indian ammo dump in Poonch and Rajouri sectors.

But yes, this was a battle or skirmish at best. From a strategic point of view, things are very different.

 

[datafreak]

In that case, IAF would have been better off to bide their time and launch the Balakot airstrike with Rafales in the lead in 2020 or 2021, this would have further enabled IAF to maybe counter PAF counter strike with Rafales as well. Tough choice for IAF i guess, and of course it didnt pay off in 2019.

Objective of hitting terrror camps was achieved. How many terror attacks did you see after 2019? Significantly lower.

 

[Mentee]

Did the indian c.a.p package assured their Pakistani counterparts to not to retaliate after witnessing their ammo dumps being bombed and two of their aircrafts getting direct hits by the enemy ? Now If the mere thought of escalation sends a chilling sensation down someone's spine then no retort should have been panned out in the first place like that infamous brahmos nuke capable missile exploding in mian channo.


Here's the thing about a retaliatory strike , you go in hot and take out every enemy asset engaging you in the battle theatre -------.

 

[Tornado23]

PAF edged out IAF on BVR range and secure communication. That it.
IAF pilots did well and inspite of claims, they were able to evade multiple AMRAAMs showing there skills in BVR tactics. Abhinandan was shot down because open comms were jammed.


IAF couldn’t get both of these inspite of years of effort. These were stalled by unique procurement babudom in India. Soon after Balakot and that skirmish, these loopholes were plugged promptly.

This showed that PAF was better in procuring stuff. Look at Rafale vs J10. Rafale procurement process has taken ages while PAF finalised and inducted J10s in much shorter and efficient timelines.

At the same time, people claiming that PAF would have shot down half the IAF is a laughable claim.

N...no...IAF doged 25000 AMRAAMs and shot down down all 75 F16 of the PAF whilst Bipin Rawat personally shot down the H4 SOW with his Igla Manpad