PAF Chief in Washington

[batmannow]

I have written in my earlier post that why Su-35 is not the great choice and the requirement of the PAF.
If you look at the J10B and JF-17 then the chances of the JF-17 to mature is more and quick. Either way if go for JF-17, F-16 or Su-35, the IAF would still have the edge and the superiority because soon its Super Sukhoi program will start starting from 2017 and that too in such high nos., upgrading program of Mig29 SMT, Jaguar Darin 3, Mirrage 2005/9 will negates all acquisition. So its better to be defensive than offensive and invest more in better SAMS, Radars, and AWE/AWAAC and offense via cruise missiles and strandoff weapons.

It doesn't matters where so called super sukhoi programe of India will lead it , if Russia is willing to deal with us , we should go for that ?
Also we are hearing that so called super sukhoi deal ,since ages ?
& I don't think , super powers like Russia or USA will be affected by INDIA s likes or dislikes ?
They are free to decide their deals & their business , & they have different priorities then of India ?
Both of them , sees PAKIATAN as their part of plans , as still Pakistan is only nuclear power Islamic state in the face of earth ?
India can't see that ?

 

[krash]

First thing first I was reffering to what his cousin has to say about f16s so our total discussion was based upon his opinion/experience not paf as a whole ...so what paf as a whole has tested or evaluated doesn't mean anything until that person has done it himself to make a comparison

Your post got even funnier...

His cousin has still flown the F-16, knows a thing or two about fighter planes, you know, on account of being his job to fly them. Know's what stuff in which aircraft does what. And yet his opinions have to compete with a man's who has no clue about the matter.

Secondly in just few minutes of flying an aircraft you can never judge the true capabilities of an aircraft until you have really flown it to its limits

When you go to evaluate any machine you don't turn it on for "just a few minutes"....these rides aren't given away at theme parks.... Not to mention the fact again that you are making these ludicrous claims while having absolutely no clue about the process.

Your point indicating that I haven't flown an f16 or any other aircraft so I can't give my opinion is as lame as one can get ...I can make the same case for you that how can you give a verdict about f16s superiority when you haven't flown it but it would be stupid of me to answer a lame reply by another lame Post
Well let me tell you something for a fact that I once met a test driver and an expert of Suzuki mehran euro2 and he ended up endorsing that car so much that I got a feeling that its the best car in Pakistan ...but I later realized it was his job to do so as he was getting benefit out of it ...Lol a test driver of such caliber can never know what a porche is believe you me !!!

lol firstly, I never claimed for any machine to be superior than any other. I have no clue which is better and thus I rely on the opinions of those who's job is to know exactly that. Kindly don't lose track.

What I did state was the fact that you accuse the F-16 driver of not knowing anything about the other aircraft out there since he hasn't flown them; all he knows is the F-16 since that is all that he has ever flown...correct? Yet you yourself haven't flown anything in your life and are still humorously presenting your claim as to which is superior in the very same post over the claims of the said pilot. By your own logic all you know is nothing since all you have flown is nothing. Your post negates itself by itself, its paradoxical and as I stated before ironic.

Then you decided to place a cherry on the top by comparing a professional pilot from the PAF who's job is to fly these machines and has no stake in the sales of the F-16 (instead he would want the best goodies out there for himself) with a Mehran test-driver that you once met who's job was directly in relation to the sails of the said vehicle..... This opinion entitlement has gotten out of hand in this country.

 

[MastanKhan]

The extended range of SU-30 MKI with in-flight refueling will enable it to come from seaward side (Baluchistan) completely bypassing our traditional radar coverage.

This scenario has been played out number of times in war college.

So---to counter it---get the JH7B and play it back.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Iam not entirely sure what went on there. But I personally think some very nifty game planning went on with a nay on the surface and yay behind the scene. Perhaps it may have been used to assure some support for us. But if you notice all the negative rhetoric has gone very quiet all of a sudden.
A

What is your source or just usual hot air?
Are you suspecting speeches in parliament fake or your hard work of years long Saudi bashing, was fake?
You are not close to be convincing, but all administeation is thanking you... redifine benchmark of biased mentality.

What Pakistan should negotiate in US is new tariff of transit route and slam baseless mud slinging by new ANA and Indian role in Afghanistan.
F-16 is carrot on the stick. Its useless for Pakistan, In 80s Pakistan was not nuclear power.
Best shot would be to get quick deliveries of helis.

 

[batmannow]

What is your source or just usual hot air?
Are you suspecting speeches in parliament fake or your hard work of years long Saudi bashing, was fake?
You are not close to be convincing, but all administeation is thanking you... redifine benchmark of biased mentality.

What Pakistan should negotiate in US is new tariff of transit route and slam baseless mud slinging by new ANA and Indian role in Afghanistan.
F-16 is carrot on the stick. Its useless for Pakistan, In 80s Pakistan was not nuclear power.
Best shot would be to get quick deliveries of helis.

Or more then that we need a real good negociator , cause these Pentagon ghosts are good at only one thing making , peoples afraid with their lies ?
Right now , our PM is expected to be in the white house , I don't think he has the ballls to say any no at any ask by any waiter or clown in white house ?
After his visit ,rumours are that , our COAS is going to visit USA & Pentagon ?
Americans can play other visits , against each others & can push Pakistan back into its decade old lonely , corner ?
Lollipops been cooked in the white house right now ! so called NUCLEAR DEAL & so & so ?
but with gen .RAHEEL SHARIF in command we can expect , some bold & courage full decesions , surly we don't need any of these dam F-16s any more , but yes we can go for further more accecerories ?
But there is a astonishing chance that Pakistan is offered with so Called nuclear deal & on behalf of that ,been asked to stop or freeze our nuclear programe at the level where it is now ?
With that , another lollipop like F-35 can be offered on papers but that will just be a offer & that's it ?
With our running PM , I can assume that he will sign the papers as soon as they been put forward on the table ?
Cause that's the only way he can stop , our military ,s right & just interference into the croupted matters of our so called democratic govt ?
After all , we are not uncle Sam's enemy ?lolzz

 

[A2Z]

RSJ_News ‏@RSJ_News 2h2 hours ago
#PAF chief visits Pentagon, meets counterpart

Well as far as I know this visit has nothing to do with accusations of F-16 but one cannot say anything about this keeping in mind the secrecy PAF maintains. However what I would like to see is that air chief should talk about the deliveries of the remaining F-16 and an AESA upgrade (or F-16V in other words).

On the other hand as far as Su-35 is concerned i think its a great platform something that would be a great boost to our forces. However deciding whether to have it and make sure our neighbor won't create issues in the future is the work of PAF and I trust them.

Now talking about the F-16 and people who are saying they are or were a useless purchase must read what F-16 has done for forces around the world and why it is still the choice of 26 airforces. As far as our F-16 are concerned, as per my limited knowledge they are perfect for our defensive doctrine. They have always been tasked with defensive missions and have always been on target, almost every airspace violation by IAF has resulted in a lockdown on IAF's jets and when the point came (in exercises) our falcons have been able to shoot Typhoons as well.

 

[batmannow]

Well as far as I know this visit has nothing to do with accusations of F-16 but one cannot say anything about this keeping in mind the secrecy PAF maintains. However what I would like to see is that air chief should talk about the deliveries of the remaining F-16 and an AESA upgrade (or F-16V in other words).

On the other hand as far as Su-35 is concerned i think its a great platform something that would be a great boost to our forces. However deciding whether to have it and make sure our neighbor won't create issues in the future is the work of PAF and I trust them.

Now talking about the F-16 and people who are saying they are or were a useless purchase must read what F-16 has done for forces around the world and why it is still the choice of 26 airforces. As far as our F-16 are concerned, as per my limited knowledge they are perfect for our defensive doctrine. They have always been tasked with defensive missions and have always been on target, almost every airspace violation by IAF has resulted in a lockdown on IAF's jets and when the point came (in exercises) our falcons have been able to shoot Typhoons as well.

We don't give any dam , what F-16s has done in the world but we are concerned more what it has done in Pakistan , when we needed it the most ?
It wasnt able to even fly In the air ?

 

[A2Z]

We don't give any dam , what F-16s has done in the world but we are concerned more what it has done in Pakistan , when we needed it the most ?
It wasnt able to even fly I'm the air ?

Well I would say that is your opinion and it is based on just one event because as far as I have read and heard what happened during Kargil was a result of unavailability of spares which lead to PAF using F-16s in defensive ops, rather than incapability of F-16s. If we wouldn't have been under the embargo or there was no problem of spares and then your would have been right my friend.

However as of today I am too of opinion that PAF should not go for more F-16s just try to get the embargoed ones, upgrade them, give JFT as much teeth as possible and look for a new 4+ generation platform that is sanction free (ideally Chinese).

 

[alimobin memon]

are we getting additional f16 ? what block and are they new ? can we upgrade our f16 with irst or SABR radar to counter stealth tech ? AESA ?

 

[A2Z]

are we getting additional f16 ? what block and are they new ? can we upgrade our f16 with irst or SABR radar to counter stealth tech ? AESA ?

Not confirmed but since recently US delivered 2 F-16 from the 14 that were built for PAF, but kept in storage due to embargo, there are chances we might get the remaining 12 as well because we have paid for them already. Probably they are old block 15. As far as upgrade is concerned I am not sure about the older blocks but Taiwan upgraded their block 20 with V upgrade which includes IRST and SABR AESA.
So we can get AESA for our Block 50/52 but i am not sure about the previous block. However this all depends on USA's approval and probably they wont allow V upgrade for PAF. And recently we upgrade all our F-16 to MLU standards except for the ex-Jordainian, so we wont go for another upgrade that quickly.

 

[Asli Lahori1]

For God sake let go of f16.

 

[Humble Analyst]

I have written in my earlier post that why Su-35 is not the great choice and the requirement of the PAF.
If you look at the J10B and JF-17 then the chances of the JF-17 to mature is more and quick. Either way if go for JF-17, F-16 or Su-35, the IAF would still have the edge and the superiority because soon its Super Sukhoi program will start starting from 2017 and that too in such high nos., upgrading program of Mig29 SMT, Jaguar Darin 3, Mirrage 2005/9 will negates all acquisition. So its better to be defensive than offensive and invest more in better SAMS, Radars, and AWE/AWAAC and offense via cruise missiles and strandoff weapons.

This logic is just an argument, in this age due to BVR and Stand off weapons Air Superiority plane requirement is increased. The need to have air superiority plane is more now, looking at the Indian upgrades of its existing fighter. F16 is good but it cannot be the answer to everything. Pakistan needs a plane which can counter top Indian planes, deny Arabian Sea entry by Indian Navy and Air Force, protect forward operating bases and trust me this is a tall order. If Pakistan has better conventional weapons, it balances Indian capability and thus it is good for India and Pakistan. Now you will say why it is good for India? Because as long as there is imbalance in favor of India, hawks on Indian side will lobby for limited war. In history limited wars have almost invariably expanded beyond intentions. Add the lack of trust and communication between two countries, fact that they have nuclear weapons and now the picture is grim. Why India is playing in the hands of others and risking the region's well being? India should have learned from Pakistan's mistakes. Instead India wants to make same mistakes or worse on bigger scale.

 

[batmannow]

Not confirmed but since recently US delivered 2 F-16 from the 14 that were built for PAF, but kept in storage due to embargo, there are chances we might get the remaining 12 as well because we have paid for them already. Probably they are old block 15. As far as upgrade is concerned I am not sure about the older blocks but Taiwan upgraded their block 20 with V upgrade which includes IRST and SABR AESA.
So we can get AESA for our Block 50/52 but i am not sure about the previous block. However this all depends on USA's approval and probably they wont allow V upgrade for PAF. And recently we upgrade all our F-16 to MLU standards except for the ex-Jordainian, so we wont go for another upgrade that quickly.

Friend ,
I don't know but my feeling is ,pentagon & NASA can see well even when we just start any of our F-16s ?
They can know the flight pattern , its altitude what we are up to & when ?
Maybe peoples will think that stupid , but I don't want to risk my national security with a sophisticated war machine which is bugged with un- heared technology ?

 

[A2Z]

Friend ,
I don't know but my feeling is ,pentagon & NASA can see well even when we just start any of our F-16s ?
They can know the flight pattern , its altitude what we are up to & when ?
Maybe peoples will think that stupid , but I don't want to risk my national security with a sophisticated war machine which is bugged with un- heared technology ?

I hate to say that but one cannot deny the fact that USA might have placed devices through which they can/are monitor/ing our F-16. However we can say the same about Russian jets as well. The only answer to the problem you are stating is that we develop our own fighters, luckily we have JFT.

Once I read in an Urdu newspaper that the avionics package that Chinese have provided us for JFT have some israeli components and those components can sent the exact location of thunders to Israel. I am not saying that its true and I don't trust the source but the point I trying to convey is until we don't develop a fighter from top to bottom we are prone to the threat you state.

Moreover fighter jets from multiple origins might be a remedy until then, and I think PAF think-tank has the same opinion as well that is why despite of the criticism we bought Mirage and went through ROSE program, we have F-16 and still want a couple of squadrons and now we are eyeing at Russian and Chinese options. The last part is purely my opinion and thinking, nothing that could be said for sure.

 

[Mani2020]

So---to counter it---get the JH7B and play it back.

Why not su-35 optimistically speaking or j-11d... I guess they will be more suitable for our needs besides they are much more evolved and modernized platforms.....