PAF can counter India’s new war doctrine, says air chief

[fjavaid]

Aww somee ....ita realy encouraging to see our War Worthy Cheif of Staffs ......
and the site of CFTs was nothing less than a treat ...though it is not the first it we hv seen CFTs on our Vipers .....
Tumbs up PAF !!!

 

[SQ8]

IAF inventory has the advantage to outnumber and out gun PAF, but in case of a limited war, IAF will have higher attrition rates than pakistan. PAF will play bulk of defensive sorties and will have home ground advantage , whereas IAF with its assumed CSD will play a major offensive role trying to break through pakistani defenses and trying Air interdiction SEAD and CAS roles for the ground offensive.

This is where PAF's j17's Mirage rose and f16's come in to play, they have a good chance to prey upon aggressor strike package evading the platforms that are flying air superiority configurations (MKI's m29 m2k's) and prey upon the jags and 27's primarily flying bomb truck missions. By blunting such attacks and making fast escapes I am sure PAF can successfully counter IAF's plans.

Another major obstacle I see in PAF blunting the Naval air arm with possibly two a/c carriers and ground based maritime a/c Jag's and naval mig 29k's. i am not sure how capable are the vintage mirages. last I heard of was jf17's being used for maritime roles, A new and agile platform like jft, large induction for maritime security might reduce the naval threat that Pak faces from IN.


On paper IAF's inventory and future acquisitions looks huge, with mmrca, another 100 super mki's and Lca mk2 in next 5-8 yrs. But the reality is aircrafts are not going fight one on one battles. Strike packages and hunter killer formations of IAF can be countered very effectively by small number of PAF's f16's/jfts . Large Indian airspace can also be penetrated by PAF formations to devastating results. The other side of reality is the huge Indian air power has the teeth to overwhelm pakistani defenses, if a few strike packages do get through, PAF might see the balance turn very quickly to IAF.

IAF fanboys love to compare numerical superiority of IAF over PAF, but PAF will never engage in a aerial attrition warfare.PAF fanboys love to harp on technological and training superiority they had 40 years ago. Today both armies know exactly know what missions are cut out for them.. Whoever manages their missions better will come out on top on any level of conflict intensity

In a way the scenario seems to look a lot like 71.. except that this time the IN CVBG's will be deployed west..adding another level of threat.
Compared to that air war.. the Pakistani airspace is no longer that vulnerable. And unlike those times when most of the deficiencies in the PAF ADGE had been laid bare for IAF planners by Bengali defectors, this time the IAF will have to resort to calculated risks.
However, the technological edge that the IAF enjoys and will continue to enjoy forever more has placed greater stress on the PAF's C4I systems and their command response. An aerial guerrilla war will be an option but the PAF will not be fighting just west.
It will be fighting south.. and east too.
Allowing IAF aircraft to roam freely over barren land is no problem.. letting an air superiority bird fly over Islamabad is not an issue either.. but as sandy has quite rightly pointed out.. hit and run tactics on strike packages is key.
Preventing the IAF from causing major damage to itself and vital installations.. and providing tacit CAS to the PA has and will continue to be the cornerstone of PAF strategy.
Again.. its not about winning the month long war, it is next to impossible. Its about preventing India from achieving anything major in the first week...
A good start to a war boost an aggressors stance.. a bad one will have them and their public thinking twice.

---------- Post added at 03:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 AM ----------

It is actually a good PR and morale sign to have a Chief operational on the latest fighter.
As it is always a good leadership sign to have a base commander operational on all the fighter types on his base.
Its a good example of leading from the front.

 

[rockstarIN]

..
This is where PAF's j17's Mirage rose and f16's come in to play, they have a good chance to prey upon aggressor strike package evading the platforms that are flying air superiority configurations (MKI's m29 m2k's) and prey upon the jags and 27's primarily flying bomb truck missions. By blunting such attacks and making fast escapes I am sure PAF can successfully counter IAF's plans.

This portion I cant get. Provided the heavy AWACS operations from each side, how will you evade the superiority platforms in a strike package? both teams knew what is coming against each other. There will be hardly any kinda surprises.

Moreover, IMO each other will target the enemy's AWACS and command centers first.

 

[SQ8]

This portion I cant get. Provided the heavy AWACS operations from each side, how will you evade the superiority platforms in a strike package? both teams knew what is coming against each other. There will be hardly any kinda surprises.

Moreover, IMO each other will target the enemy's AWACS and command centers first.

Has happened multiple times in red flag ex.. no better example of AWACS coverage than that.
The Awacs will be primary targets and their defense and that of command centers from kill packages will be prime.
Again.. the need will not be to shoot every tom,dick and harry heading for targets..
Only concentrate on the crucial ones and leave the rest to ADA elements.

 

[DrSomnath999]

i think they should concentrate on fortifying their air defences a bit like improved SAMS ,

 

[帅的一匹]

China will provide Pakistan 50 JF-17 before 2013 for emergency, and the Chinese goverment make advance the procurement to Chengdu CAC for PAF.

 

[MehrotraPrince]

....If we are done chest thumping with sukhoi's and f16's 65's air victory and 71's result, then please lets get back to what Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman actually said.
The air chief said that PAF is in the position to counter India's new combat doctrine, which has not really been acknowledged by the Indian Establishment, nevertheless lets assume, is truly the new Indian doctrine.

As oscar pointed out, what exactly countering really IAF means. India is busy modernizing its air fleet with big ticket items. traditionally pakistan has always enjoyed technological superiority over India, but since the mid nineties, it seems Indian Air force has won the race to technological superiority along with the numerical.

IAF inventory has the advantage to outnumber and out gun PAF, but in case of a limited war, IAF will have higher attrition rates than pakistan. PAF will play bulk of defensive sorties and will have home ground advantage , whereas IAF with its assumed CSD will play a major offensive role trying to break through pakistani defenses and trying Air interdiction SEAD and CAS roles for the ground offensive.

This is where PAF's j17's Mirage rose and f16's come in to play, they have a good chance to prey upon aggressor strike package evading the platforms that are flying air superiority configurations (MKI's m29 m2k's) and prey upon the jags and 27's primarily flying bomb truck missions. By blunting such attacks and making fast escapes I am sure PAF can successfully counter IAF's plans.

Another major obstacle I see in PAF blunting the Naval air arm with possibly two a/c carriers and ground based maritime a/c Jag's and naval mig 29k's. i am not sure how capable are the vintage mirages. last I heard of was jf17's being used for maritime roles, A new and agile platform like jft, large induction for maritime security might reduce the naval threat that Pak faces from IN.


On paper IAF's inventory and future acquisitions looks huge, with mmrca, another 100 super mki's and Lca mk2 in next 5-8 yrs. But the reality is aircrafts are not going fight one on one battles. Strike packages and hunter killer formations of IAF can be countered very effectively by small number of PAF's f16's/jfts . Large Indian airspace can also be penetrated by PAF formations to devastating results. The other side of reality is the huge Indian air power has the teeth to overwhelm pakistani defenses, if a few strike packages do get through, PAF might see the balance turn very quickly to IAF.

IAF fanboys love to compare numerical superiority of IAF over PAF, but PAF will never engage in a aerial attrition warfare.PAF fanboys love to harp on technological and training superiority they had 40 years ago. Today both armies know exactly know what missions are cut out for them.. Whoever manages their missions better will come out on top on any level of conflict intensity

Good analaysis But let me add something.......


In case of limited war, destroying vital installation will be the key to gain advantage, like ground radars (both static and mobile), airfields close to the border, AWACS etc.

IAF strategy will be to destroy these installations without using much of manned aircraft (you guess it right, drones like IAI Harpy and strategic missiles), without destroying these installations IAF will never deploy their manned aircraft for offensive role in enemy airspace.

One of the key feature of our airforce and army modernisation plan is to cover our airspace with three tier defensive wall (two tier with SAMs and last defence line will be aircrafts).

Last thing jaguars and Mig 27 during war times never fly alone, you know what I want to say, and evading those mig 29 and su 30's will not be so easy.

 

[Shinigami]

how exactly do u hit-and-run a strike package when they are almost always given fighter escort?

 

[SQ8]

Good analaysis But let me add something.......


In case of limited war, destroying vital installation will be the key to gain advantage, like ground radars (both static and mobile), airfields close to the border, AWACS etc.

IAF strategy will be to destroy these installations without using much of manned aircraft (you guess it right, drones like IAI Harpy and strategic missiles), without distroying these installations IAF will never deploy their manned aircraft for offencive role in enemy airspace.

One of the key feature of our airforce and army modernisation plan is to cover our airspace with three tier defencive wall (two tier with SAMs and last defence line will be aircrafts).

Last thing jaguars and Mig 27 during war times never fly alone, you know what I want to say, and evading those mig 29 and su 30's will not be so easy.

Nobody implies that, but it will be part of the tactics.. whether they succeed or not is dependent on a multitude of factors.
IAF's aim will be to use stand-off weapons to hit the PAF guided ADGE network.
Considering the number of Harpy's and Brahmos(along with KH-31's) that will be needed to take out the current network as it is.
The IAF has more than enough.
But A strike on the PAF bases will not be ignored either.. initially with standoff.. then with direct precision and dumb strikes.
Air superiority fighters will be used to bait the PAF into the air.. simulating strike packages and embedding fighters in them.
Against this.. the PAF will rely on the effectiveness of its C4I network in placing assets at key positions and identifying strike packages. This network consisting of Fixed and mobile radars.. AWACS, fighters, ADA systems, Mobile observer units.. and other unmentioned assets.

I believe the Jag's and Bahadur's will be inclined towards CAS sorties.. leaving critical strikes to the M2K(and eventually the MMRCA).

 

[rockstarIN]

how exactly do u hit-and-run a strike package when they are almost always given fighter escort?

We have the luxury of heavy fighters(means more fuel/range+weapons) which will make it tough for them. But it is not impossible, depends upon their tactics and PAF is a potent force.

Iraqi Air force did try this tactics in gulf war, trying to lure the escorting F-15s by their Mig-29s near to their radar sites away from the bombers. But did not work well.

 

[SQ8]

We have the luxury of heavy fighters(means more fuel/range+weapons) which will make it tough for them. But it is not impossible, depends upon their tactics and PAF is a potent force.

Iraqi Air force did try this tactics in gulf war, trying to lure the escorting F-15s by their Mig-29s near to their radar sites away from the bombers. But did not work well.

Disparity of weapons.. An overrated , lax military vs a well oiled war machine.
But one cannot underestimate the advantage of a technological edge.

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

By 2015 almost entire PAF would be BVR capable and linked to AWACs.

India will not have Rafale before 2015. Which means....PAF will have upper hand with respect to equipment across the board.

What will be the determining factor?

A side which can keep it's resources flowing for long, attack aggressively to counter the attacking nemesis.

Which means, PAF must keep the option of pre-emptive strikes, with both the aircraft and the standoff weapons...open.

 

[rockstarIN]

Hi,

By 2015 almost entire PAF would be BVR capable and linked to AWACs.

India will not have Rafale before 2015. Which means....PAF will have upper hand with respect to equipment across the board.

What will be the determining factor?

A side which can keep it's resources flowing for long, attack aggressively to counter the attacking nemesis.

Which means, PAF must keep the option of pre-emptive strikes, with both the aircraft and the standoff weapons...open.

How? connecting all fighters to AWCS will take time and wont happen in 4-5 years for the entire inventory, specially for different set of air crafts.

 

[SQ8]

How? connecting all fighters to AWCS will take time and wont happen in 4-5 years for the entire inventory, specially for different set of air crafts.

Some will come off the shelf network linked..
others need only be connected to.
for eg.. the f-16's are already link-16 capable..and will be tested with the Erieyes soon.
Next in line are the JF-17s.. they will be running a datalink better than link 16.. but will use the same architecture to allow for commonality.
The last aircraft to actually join the link network will be the ZDK-03s.. their integration and linking with the F-16 directly is the real puzzle these days.

 

[drunken-monke]

Nobody implies that, but it will be part of the tactics.. whether they succeed or not is dependent on a multitude of factors.
IAF's aim will be to use stand-off weapons to hit the PAF guided ADGE network.
Considering the number of Harpy's and Brahmos(along with KH-31's) that will be needed to take out the current network as it is.
The IAF has more than enough.
But A strike on the PAF bases will not be ignored either.. initially with standoff.. then with direct precision and dumb strikes.
Air superiority fighters will be used to bait the PAF into the air.. simulating strike packages and embedding fighters in them.
Against this.. the PAF will rely on the effectiveness of its C4I network in placing assets at key positions and identifying strike packages. This network consisting of Fixed and mobile radars.. AWACS, fighters, ADA systems, Mobile observer units.. and other unmentioned assets.

I believe the Jag's and Bahadur's will be inclined towards CAS sorties.. leaving critical strikes to the M2K(and eventually the MMRCA).

Very much balanced and rational post...