PAF and IAF Active Duty Inventory/ Assets in February 2019 Conflict

[Baibars_1260]

A war is not based on a single mission. Attrition will occur, several missions will fail and others will succeed. Only the force that has the depth, resources and the courage to sustain losses and continue will win a war. One battle alone doesn't matter. The real question would be how many days would PAF and IAF be able to sustain a full fledged war? It's clear which force has the greater resources at it's disposal, both of its own and national resources.

Good point!
So then the following questions are relevant:
1. India has fought full fledged wars with Pakistan before with the same asymmetry. Why did the Pakistan Air Force survive these conflicts relatively intact ?
In a true attrition war an air force is degraded over time or by an intense sustained operation over a short duration,
Examples:
Iraqi Airforce during Desert Storm ( 1991) . With initial heavy losses in 1991 and attrition over a decade by 2003 , Desert Freedom, the Iraqi Air Force had virtually ceased to exist.,

Afghan Air Force in 2001 .With attrition and lack of maintenance it had virtually ceased to exist. It was wiped out in the first attacks which also killed the Afghan Air Force chief.

In 2011, the Libyan Air Force was neutralized within a week by Operation Unified Protector, Operation Harmattan.

The assets available and deployed by the USA and coalition forces were very small in numbers.
Example : Operation Unified Protector the French deployed
18 Mirage 2000, 19 Rafale, 6 Mirage F1, 6 Super Etendard, 2 E-2 Hawkeye, 3 Eurocopter Tiger, 16 Aérospatiale Gazelle aircraft, The Belgian and Danish Airforces deployed
6 F-16s each and the Canadians deployed 6-F-18s. So with a total of around 70 combat aircraft supported by naval assets and SEAD operations the coalition was able achieve complete air supremacy over a territory double the size of Pakistan.
Just India's Su 30 inventory is more than three times the entire coalition strength fielded by the US and Nato in all the operations ( example: March 10-June 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia) .

All the above operations were conducted by air forces at extreme distances requiring extensive logistical and refueling capabilities.
Yet the Libyan, Iraqi, Yugoslavian and Afghan air forces were knocked out fairly easily.
Israel using far smaller forces has neutralized every air force in the vicinity, except perhaps Syria which is still functional somewhat.

So question to our Indian guests here:
Why hasn't India given its vastly superior air assets achieved air supremacy over Pakistan?

Why hasn't India waged an air campaign of attrition to degrade the PAF like the USA did over a decade against Iraq?

Why hasn't India conducted fighter jet air "sweeps" to lure the PAF fighters into combat and then annihilate them like the USA attempted against the NVAF ( Operation Bolo 1967 ) ?

Why is the PAF still intact after four wars, able to rebuild, re-equip, and operate freely within Pakistani air space?

 

[The Maverick]

Good point!
So then the following questions are relevant:
1. India has fought full fledged wars with Pakistan before with the same asymmetry. Why did the Pakistan Air Force survive these conflicts relatively intact ?
In a true attrition war an air force is degraded over time or by an intense sustained operation over a short duration,
Examples:
Iraqi Airforce during Desert Storm ( 1991) . With initial heavy losses in 1991 and attrition over a decade by 2003 , Desert Freedom, the Iraqi Air Force had virtually ceased to exist.,

Afghan Air Force in 2001 .With attrition and lack of maintenance it had virtually ceased to exist. It was wiped out in the first attacks which also killed the Afghan Air Force chief.

In 2011, the Libyan Air Force was neutralized within a week by Operation Unified Protector, Operation Harmattan.

The assets available and deployed by the USA and coalition forces were very small in numbers.
Example : Operation Unified Protector the French deployed
18 Mirage 2000, 19 Rafale, 6 Mirage F1, 6 Super Etendard, 2 E-2 Hawkeye, 3 Eurocopter Tiger, 16 Aérospatiale Gazelle aircraft, The Belgian and Danish Airforces deployed
6 F-16s each and the Canadians deployed 6-F-18s. So with a total of around 70 combat aircraft supported by naval assets and SEAD operations the coalition was able achieve complete air supremacy over a territory double the size of Pakistan.
Just India's Su 30 inventory is more than three times the entire coalition strength fielded by the US and Nato in all the operations ( example: March 10-June 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia) .

All the above operations were conducted by air forces at extreme distances requiring extensive logistical and refueling capabilities.
Yet the Libyan, Iraqi, Yugoslavian and Afghan air forces were knocked out fairly easily.
Israel using far smaller forces has neutralized every air force in the vicinity, except perhaps Syria which is still functional somewhat.

So question to our Indian guests here:
Why hasn't India given its vastly superior air assets achieved air supremacy over Pakistan?

Why hasn't India waged an air campaign of attrition to degrade the PAF like the USA did over a decade against Iraq?

Why hasn't India conducted fighter jet air "sweeps" to lure the PAF fighters into combat and then annihilate them like the USA attempted against the NVAF ( Operation Bolo 1967 ) ?

Why is the PAF still intact after four wars, able to rebuild, re-equip, and operate freely within Pakistani air space?

what,a,stupid,comparison
when was India,and pakistan last time in a,major war,utilising it's,entire inventory
answer 1971.
did,India,have,nearly 300 mki like they do today error no
so I can you claim why did India allow pakistan air Force,last 4 yearsto operate,freely in its,own back yard,
because,you can do what you like in your airspace.
we are,not at war,
in 1999 was,the,last time India,used air power effectively against your northern light infantry
the mirage2000 wiped,out most of your,regiment using laser bombs,
your f16 stayed away never got involved
mushraff forgot to tell your air Force you were at,war
pathetic really

 

[The Maverick]

Simple question, and I will ask again. Name me one Bison unit of the 6/7 units in service, that has been phased out in the last 2 years?

If it is "well documented" as you claim, you should have a link no? I cannot find a single one on a Google search.

You claim only 54 Bisons in service, so each squadrom much have only 9 planes?

You are a joke

I suggest you read the history of the no45 squadron flying daggers
in 2019 and 2020 the mig21 bis was replaced by the tejas
there are now 16 tejas mark 1in that squadron

 

[The Maverick]

I suggest you read the history of the no45 squadron flying daggers
in 2019 and 2020 the mig21 bis was replaced by the tejas
there are now 16 tejas mark 1in that squadron

,
the second squadron of tejas no18 the flying bullets has operationalised they replaced the last mig27 planes in 2020.
the squadron is growing in number with only 4 planes rising to 10 end of this month or early April 6 tejas to be handed over in o go .

look.. unlike pakistan the indian military is no big secret everything is open source clear and transparent and much discussed
no rumours in indian military
no hidden agenda,
no we keep surprises hiding behind bankruptcy issues, etc

 

[Baibars_1260]

what,a,stupid,comparison
when was India,and pakistan last time in a,major war,utilising it's,entire inventory
answer 1971.
did,India,have,nearly 300 mki like they do today error no
so I can you claim why did India allow pakistan air Force,last 4 yearsto operate,freely in its,own back yard,
because,you can do what you like in your airspace.
we are,not at war,
in 1999 was,the,last time India,used air power effectively against your northern light infantry
the mirage2000 wiped,out most of your,regiment using laser bombs,
your f16 stayed away never got involved
mushraff forgot to tell your air Force you were at,war
pathetic really

You a lost a Mig 21, and Mig 27 in 1999 Kargil also.
The Abhinandan of 1999 was Nachiketa . Flt. Lt. Ahuja did not survive the downing of his Mig 21.
You also lost an Mi-17 ( four crew members killed) and a Canberra was also hit but made it to the base as a write off.
That is four aircraft ( 3 fixed wing and one rotary) lost to Anza and Stinger MANPADs, with a loss of five crew members killed in action and one pilot POW in enemy hands.
Then your Atal Bihariji had a summit with Musharraf to discuss Kashmir!
Couldn't you have done better?

Do victors in a war discuss or demand?

 

[Yasser76]

I suggest you read the history of the no45 squadron flying daggers
in 2019 and 2020 the mig21 bis was replaced by the tejas
there are now 16 tejas mark 1in that squadron

One more time, how many of the 6 units of MIGS have retired?

Shall I tell you? Zero.

India has 6 Bison units and 6 Jaguar units.

 

[The Maverick]

One more time, how many of the 6 units of MIGS have retired?

Shall I tell you? Zero.

India has 6 Bison units and 6 Jaguar units.

are you ignoring what I just proved

no45 sqd confirmed replaced
which part of that is difficult

 

[The Maverick]

One more time, how many of the 6 units of MIGS have retired?

Shall I tell you? Zero.

India has 6 Bison units and 6 Jaguar units.

3 units,

my assessment 3 left

 

[Yasser76]

3 units,

my assessment 3 left

So Scramble.nl , Indian sites and even Official IAF site are all wrong?

Orbats

www.scramble.nl

Fighter Aircrafts | Indian Air Force | Government of India

Indian Airforce, Government of India

indianairforce.nic.in

MiG-21 BISON : Single engine, single seater multirole fighter/ground attack aircraft of Russian origin which forms the back-bone of the IAF. It has a max speed of 2230 km/hr (Mach 2.1) and carries one 23mm twin barrel cannon with four R-60 close combat missiles.

Indian Air Force Order of Battle

Operational Forces Support Forces Direct Reporting Units Operational Forces Unit Base Type Role Central Air Command1 4 Wing Agra 106 Squadron Agra HAL / Avro 748M Electronic Intelligence 15 Wing Ba…

firangionindia.wordpress.com

Your desperation gets more obvious and pathetic with every single post, you are too embaressed to admit it.

 

[The Maverick]

You a lost a Mig 21, and Mig 27 in 1999 Kargil also.
The Abhinandan of 1999 was Nachiketa . Flt. Lt. Ahuja did not survive the downing of his Mig 21.
You also lost an Mi-17 ( four crew members killed) and a Canberra was also hit but made it to the base as a write off.
That is

So Scramble.nl , Indian sites and even Official IAF site are all wrong?

Orbats

www.scramble.nl

Fighter Aircrafts | Indian Air Force | Government of India

Indian Airforce, Government of India

indianairforce.nic.in

MiG-21 BISON : Single engine, single seater multirole fighter/ground attack aircraft of Russian origin which forms the back-bone of the IAF. It has a max speed of 2230 km/hr (Mach 2.1) and carries one 23mm twin barrel cannon with four R-60 close combat missiles.

Indian Air Force Order of Battle

Operational Forces Support Forces Direct Reporting Units Operational Forces Unit Base Type Role Central Air Command1 4 Wing Agra 106 Squadron Agra HAL / Avro 748M Electronic Intelligence 15 Wing Ba…

firangionindia.wordpress.com

Your desperation gets more obvious and pathetic with every single post, you are too embaressed to admit it.

Yasser

The Data is wrong buddy
Your posting order of battle from 2018

This is s out of date its laughable ............... ITS showing 4 squadrons of MIG27 lol lol

The last squdron was replaced by NO18 flying bullets Tejas in 2020

Where is the Rafale in the order of battle OR the Tejas

SEE BELOW

Rafale
Golden Arrows Squdron

Tejas
Flying Daggers & Flying Bullets Squadrons

ARTiCLE CONFIRMING LAST MIG27
Kargil hero MiG-27 will take to sky one last time Friday, IAF squadron strength to go down (theprint.in)

The article clearly tells the lst 15 mig27 have been number plated

" WHY DO YOU INSIST" ON DOING THIS

We had this FIASCO with Tejas MARK1A ..........IN JANUARY

Indians clearly told you over and over AGAIN the deal would be signed in Feb 21 aero india

BUT no you wanted proof

WELL stop posting orbats that are 3 years OLD

 

[Yasser76]

Yasser

The Data is wrong buddy
Your posting order of battle from 2018

This is s out of date its laughable ............... ITS showing 4 squadrons of MIG27 lol lol

The last squdron was replaced by NO18 flying bullets Tejas in 2020

Where is the Rafale in the order of battle OR the Tejas

SEE BELOW

Rafale
Golden Arrows Squdron

View attachment 721579


Tejas
Flying Daggers & Flying Bullets Squadrons
View attachment 721580

ARTiCLE CONFIRMING LAST MIG27
Kargil hero MiG-27 will take to sky one last time Friday, IAF squadron strength to go down (theprint.in)

The article clearly tells the lst 15 mig27 have been number plated

" WHY DO YOU INSIST" ON DOING THIS

We had this FIASCO with Tejas MARK1A ..........IN JANUARY

Indians clearly told you over and over AGAIN the deal would be signed in Feb 21 aero india

BUT no you wanted proof

WELL stop posting orbats that are 3 years OLD

Still waiting for your evidence of MIG-21 retirements in last 2 years. Asking for 4th time. I provide links you provide long rambles with no evidence, and I am referring to MIG-21. As usual you try and muddy the waters with MIG-27, we all know those are retired.

So your evidence please?

 

[Yasser76]

Yasser

The Data is wrong buddy
Your posting order of battle from 2018

This is s out of date its laughable ............... ITS showing 4 squadrons of MIG27 lol lol

The last squdron was replaced by NO18 flying bullets Tejas in 2020

Where is the Rafale in the order of battle OR the Tejas

SEE BELOW

Rafale
Golden Arrows Squdron

View attachment 721579


Tejas
Flying Daggers & Flying Bullets Squadrons
View attachment 721580

ARTiCLE CONFIRMING LAST MIG27
Kargil hero MiG-27 will take to sky one last time Friday, IAF squadron strength to go down (theprint.in)

The article clearly tells the lst 15 mig27 have been number plated

" WHY DO YOU INSIST" ON DOING THIS

We had this FIASCO with Tejas MARK1A ..........IN JANUARY

Indians clearly told you over and over AGAIN the deal would be signed in Feb 21 aero india

BUT no you wanted proof

WELL stop posting orbats that are 3 years OLD

Flight International 2021
Air Forces database listing 132 MIG-21s in IAF

https://www.flightglobal.com/download?ac=75345

So Flight International, Scramble.nl and Official IAF sites are all wrong.

Your personal opinion is right.

You need mental help, and quickly.

 

[IblinI]

You need mental help, and quickly.

It's too late already, what a desperate guy he is.