PAF Air to Air and Air to Ground missile systems should evolve

[Darth Vader]

How does mirage 2000 which are not upgraded at that time in 99 kargil war carried BVR MISSILES

They didnt needed upgraded , they Carried Because They were created for these Birds

Is that any crime to get a knowledge of your interest

Yes I must have knowledge how well we are equiped

Join Armed Forces than then how can better First hand knowledge
Interest is Good until it doesn't start to hurt national interest

India Add 1 Squadron of MKI Each year over 60-70 New MKI Added in last 5 years

Numbers Will cross 300+

It was in the context of Pakistani Air Force , In Last 5 years Pakistan has added more Modern Birds than Indian Air Force
as for 300+ Its Still a long way to go and current number is around 240+

@Super Falcon You are also Forgetting One Thing 90s and 20s were also the time in which Pakistan was in embargo and coudnt afford to Go on Shopping Spring with new modern Jets

 

[Super Falcon]

They didnt needed upgraded , they Carried Because They were created for these Birds

Join Armed Forces than then how can better First hand knowledge
Interest is Good until it doesn't start to hurt national interest


It was in the context of Pakistani Air Force , In Last 5 years Pakistan has added more Modern Birds than Indian Air Force
as for 300+ Its Still a long way to go and current number is around 240+

@Super Falcon You are also Forgetting One Thing 90s and 20s were also the time in which Pakistan was in embargo and coudnt afford to Go on Shopping Spring with new modern Jets

Agreed but when embargo lifted we added 18 F 16

Let's not get into similar talk we are here for air to air and air to ground missiles which we hardly talk about

What do you think is PAF well equipped in missiles

Can SD 10 Be used with F 16

 

[Darth Vader]

Agreed but when embargo lifted we added 18 F 16

Let's not get into similar talk we are here for air to air and air to ground missiles which we hardly talk about

What do you think is PAF well equipped in missiles

Can SD 10 Be used with F 16

Nop

 

[ziaulislam]

Seems you are missing quite a few, apart from those present in the pictures you have also overlooked the likes of Maverick and our own R'had.


View attachment 322743

can you name the missles in photo

 

[Genghis khan1]

Brothers recently I was searching for type of missiles PAF uses I come across this

Currently there are four types of missiles in PAF inventory. They are :

AIM - 9 P2:

The AIM-9P2 is the 1980s update of the older AIM-9Bs. It has improved lead acquisition capability, solid state electronics, improved infrared warhead and a reduced smoke motor. The Sidewinder has been Pakistan's standard air-to-air missile since 1956. The range is from 4 to 8 Km.

AIM - 9 L:

This is the latest version of this long-lived missile. It weighs 86 Kg. compared to 75 Kg. of -9Bs. It is an all-aspect attack missile and also has greater ECM protection. The range is about 10 Km.

MATRA R 550:

It is a 91 Kg. infrared seeker, intended for dog-fight missions. The range is from 2 to 10 Km. depending on the altitude and speed. It is of French origin that came with the Mirages but can also arm A-5s and other aircraft.

PL - 5:

The Chinese PL-5 is infact a copy of the French -550 missile but lacking the performance of its counterpart. It was supplied with the F-7Ps. The range is from 4 to 6 km

Air to Ground


This missile was introduced in 1983. It is for use against tanks, ships and concrete defence. It has a TV guidance and the warhead weighs 57 and 136 Kg. It costs between $60,000 and $100,000. The missile is carried by the F-16 aircraft and has a kill rate of around 80 %.

AM - 39:

The air-launched Exocet AM-39 anti-ship missiles are carried by the PAF's Mirage VPA3 of No. 8 Maritime Squardon for maritime strike. They can also be carried by the Atlantic aircraft and Sea King helicopter of the Navy. The range is from 40 to 75 km. The missile weighs about 655 Kg. with a 165 Kg. warhead. It can fly at just under Mach 1 at about 2-3 m above water.


Bombs

Atlas:

Atlas guided bomb was basically intended for the Mirage V aircraft, but after a modification PAF has been able to arm F-16s with it also. This gives PAF a real lethal strike capability. The bomb weighs 2000 lb. and can be guided and fired through Thompson CSF pod.

Paveway:

This bomb weighs 2000 lbs. and is carried by the F-16 aircraft. It costs somewhere around $30,000. and the kit can be applied to bombs anywhere within the 500 to 3000 lb. range. It is usually fired at a height less than 2000 ft. and has a range of about 2 - 4 km.

Durrandal:

Durrandel is an airfield attack munition that is used to crater runways. It weighs 195 Kg. and six to ten can be carried by the Mirage III/V aircraft. The penetration is claimed to be 40 cm of concrete and area disrupted to be 150 to 200 sq.m.

Rockeye:

Rockeyes are basically cluster-bombs i.e numerous bomblets are present in a bomb shell which are released at a particular height. It is a wide area weapon which is used against troop and artillary concentrations. Weight is some where around 600 lb.


General Purpose HE Bombs:

PAF has general purpose bombs of 250 lb. 500 lb. 750 lb. and the 1000 lb. range that are used against large land targets. They don't have any guidance systems and are used either for the troop harrasment or against buildings. These are carried by F-16, Mirage V and the A-5 aircraft.


Most of missiles we are using from 80s era and recently we got anti radiation missile from South Africa which should have bought atleast by early 90s

Why PAF hesitating taking bold decisions

Countries are moving towards 200 to 300 km range missiles and Pakistan is using 8-10 km form 80s. Seriously, WTF!!!!

 

[SQ8]

Brothers recently I was searching for type of missiles PAF uses I come across this

Currently there are four types of missiles in PAF inventory. They are :

AIM - 9 P2:

The AIM-9P2 is the 1980s update of the older AIM-9Bs. It has improved lead acquisition capability, solid state electronics, improved infrared warhead and a reduced smoke motor. The Sidewinder has been Pakistan's standard air-to-air missile since 1956. The range is from 4 to 8 Km.

AIM - 9 L:

This is the latest version of this long-lived missile. It weighs 86 Kg. compared to 75 Kg. of -9Bs. It is an all-aspect attack missile and also has greater ECM protection. The range is about 10 Km.

MATRA R 550:

It is a 91 Kg. infrared seeker, intended for dog-fight missions. The range is from 2 to 10 Km. depending on the altitude and speed. It is of French origin that came with the Mirages but can also arm A-5s and other aircraft.

PL - 5:

The Chinese PL-5 is infact a copy of the French -550 missile but lacking the performance of its counterpart. It was supplied with the F-7Ps. The range is from 4 to 6 km

Air to Ground


This missile was introduced in 1983. It is for use against tanks, ships and concrete defence. It has a TV guidance and the warhead weighs 57 and 136 Kg. It costs between $60,000 and $100,000. The missile is carried by the F-16 aircraft and has a kill rate of around 80 %.

AM - 39:

The air-launched Exocet AM-39 anti-ship missiles are carried by the PAF's Mirage VPA3 of No. 8 Maritime Squardon for maritime strike. They can also be carried by the Atlantic aircraft and Sea King helicopter of the Navy. The range is from 40 to 75 km. The missile weighs about 655 Kg. with a 165 Kg. warhead. It can fly at just under Mach 1 at about 2-3 m above water.


Bombs

Atlas:

Atlas guided bomb was basically intended for the Mirage V aircraft, but after a modification PAF has been able to arm F-16s with it also. This gives PAF a real lethal strike capability. The bomb weighs 2000 lb. and can be guided and fired through Thompson CSF pod.

Paveway:

This bomb weighs 2000 lbs. and is carried by the F-16 aircraft. It costs somewhere around $30,000. and the kit can be applied to bombs anywhere within the 500 to 3000 lb. range. It is usually fired at a height less than 2000 ft. and has a range of about 2 - 4 km.

Durrandal:

Durrandel is an airfield attack munition that is used to crater runways. It weighs 195 Kg. and six to ten can be carried by the Mirage III/V aircraft. The penetration is claimed to be 40 cm of concrete and area disrupted to be 150 to 200 sq.m.

Rockeye:

Rockeyes are basically cluster-bombs i.e numerous bomblets are present in a bomb shell which are released at a particular height. It is a wide area weapon which is used against troop and artillary concentrations. Weight is some where around 600 lb.


General Purpose HE Bombs:

PAF has general purpose bombs of 250 lb. 500 lb. 750 lb. and the 1000 lb. range that are used against large land targets. They don't have any guidance systems and are used either for the troop harrasment or against buildings. These are carried by F-16, Mirage V and the A-5 aircraft.


Most of missiles we are using from 80s era and recently we got anti radiation missile from South Africa which should have bought atleast by early 90s

Why PAF hesitating taking bold decisions

I would say that inventory represents that of PAF, but around 1994.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Countries are moving towards 200 to 300 km range missiles and Pakistan is using 8-10 km form 80s. Seriously, WTF!!!!

they are WVR short range IR missiles, can you explain which missiles have range of 200 to 300 km? if you talking about Russian Arrow and its Russian counterpart (can't remember its name) it was not design to intercept fighter jets but for big and non-maneuverable targets like AWACS, BOMBERS, EW, SPY PLANE at that range

and we have AIM-120C5, SD-10B long range missiles

 

[Genghis khan1]

K-37M

they are WVR short range IR missiles, can you explain which missiles have range of 200 to 300 km? if you talking about Russian Arrow and its Russian counterpart (can't remember its name) it was not design to intercept fighter jets but for big and non-maneuverable targets like AWACS, BOMBERS, EW, SPY PLANE at that range

and we have AIM-120C5, SD-10B long range missiles

I think all the ones with Ramjet engines. Every country is trying to get one up.
K-37M- Russian
PL 15- Chinese
Metor- Europeans.

 

[Ultima Thule]

K-37M

I think all the ones with Ramjet engines. Every country is trying to get one up.
K-37M- Russian
PL 15- Chinese
Metor- Europeans.

as said on my above post K-37 is not intended for fighter jets but its intended for big and non maneuverable targets like AWACS, BOMBERS, EW, and SPY PLANE,

PL-15 has max range of 160 km not 200 to 300 km according to www.sinodefense.com and top81.cn
Meteor has max range of 100 km according to globalsecurity.com
and Meteor, Pl-15 are in development not in production

 

[MastanKhan]

Oh yara.
I know the British raped our historyand our culture but are you going to do what they did when a few of us who saw the time are still alive. You guys harp on about getting this and that. Tell me who was selling you all of these goodies that you want to buy? . Who was selling you BVRs ? The fact is no one. Even US gave you BVRs wit hthe Bl.52s primarily because of the fact that IAF had it and also because the Chinese were going to give you SD10. So when you complain please look back at history and do some leg work before you make broad reaching statements. To give you an exampleyour lovely French bosom cronies stopped your deliveries of the Augusta 90B nad the upgraded M3/5sROSEs during the 2002 face off with the Indians. The next thing you need to consider is what are you going to mate your BVRs with. With the exception of the 16s there was not a single plane capable enough to have a BVR simply because the radar range was not there. I cant say with assurance but even if you had tried to get some BVR you would have been rebuffed.I think there was some limited BVR capability on the M3/5s but if you went on and shot down anIAF plane on their land it would have been an open declaration of war which was totally contrary to the aims of Kargil. So before one harps about shameful this or that realize what limitations you have and what you have to work with. I would be the first one to say that the whole of Pakistan is rife with corruption but where criticism is being labelled for the sake of it I will come out fighting.

@araz,

My man---you have a SOB STORY ready for everything.

They already knew that they were lacking equipment--so when 9/11 happened----why didn't act on fastark and get what was needed.

Prior to that---the U S had restrictions---and U S sanctions---they never happen without a CLEAR WARNING---. It is always loud and clear---and just like the members of today---who are not different than their fathers---are repeating the same mistakes---saying---nothing will happen.

I keep telling members---specially senior members---please---for once in your lives---be honest---be truthful in your analysis---but pakistanis can't even do that even after multiple warnings.

Smacking on your hand is different than slitting your throat---the french sanctions were like a smack on the hand---the U S sanctions were like slitting the throat---.

It is again disinformation to compare the two on the same level---.

The bottomline is---when the war came---the boys in the blue were not ready---.

The poster is right----the Paf never showed any urgency in buying aircraft after 9/11.

The scenario is just like this---someone's mother is dying for a lack of medicine---9/11 happens---medicine becomes available---the son claims---my mother is not that sick----she don't need medicine in a hurry---she is okay----she was never sick.

You are not coming out fighting----what is happening is that you have yet to learn to steam roll over those who have lame excuses----this is not fighting----this is covering up incompetence deceit and deception----this is trying to save you face from humiliation rather than face the truth-----.

 

[Genghis khan1]

as said on my above post K-37 is not intended for fighter jets but its intended for big and non maneuverable targets like AWACS, BOMBERS, EW, and SPY PLANE,

PL-15 has max range of 160 km not 200 to 300 km according to www.sinodefense.com and top81.cn
Meteor has max range of 100 km according to globalsecurity.com
and Meteor, Pl-15 are in development not in production

Ya, that's what I said, countries are moving toward 200 to 300 ranges. There is small video from USAF on future threat assessment of AMRAAMS, which clearly suggest that US is losing ground and needs a new missile, while showing Chinese and Russian missiles reaching 200 to 300 range marks. Which suggest these missile either have undisclosed range or will have range of 200 to 300 km. Same with Meteor, 100 km is just the beginning.

Meteor promotional videos also suggest targeting fighter jets at long ranges, which mean technology has improved, Ramjet AMRAAM have evolved and AWACS, BOMBERS, EW, and SPY PLANE won't be their only targets.

 

[Moon]

Sir I have a question don't answer me as a PAF employee answer me as true Pakistani

Do we need one more BVR missile other than AIM 120

The reply would be: Yes.
Why? Because I've yet to hear or see JF-17 equipped with AIM-120.
Hence we already have a BVR called SD-10. Ordered specifically for JF-17s and PGs.
Hope that answers your queries.

 

[GiG]

Air to Air BVR
800 SD-10
500 AIM-120

Air to Ground BVR
100 MAR-1
Unspecified Numbers of EXOCET
50+70 C-802
Unspecified Numbers of H-2
Unspecified Numbers of H-4
Unspecified Numbers of Ra'ad
Unspecified Numbers of CM-400AKG

what more would you ask for?
this offensive capability is enough to deter INDIA in a conventional war
PAF need to focus on its SAM,It should focus on to get its hand on Chinese variant of S-400

 

[war&peace]

PAF comparing
F 16 on SU 30 is like comparing Bugatti with Mercedes AMG

no offence fact is even SU 30 Is at par with F 16 in numbers alone it take F 16 out

As your simile likens F-16 to Bugatti and Su 30 to Mercedes AMG, you should know that former is far superior to the latter.

 

[araz]

@araz,

My man---you have a SOB STORY ready for everything.

They already knew that they were lacking equipment--so when 9/11 happened----why didn't act on fastark and get what was needed.

Prior to that---the U S had restrictions---and U S sanctions---they never happen without a CLEAR WARNING---. It is always loud and clear---and just like the members of today---who are not different than their fathers---are repeating the same mistakes---saying---nothing will happen.

I keep telling members---specially senior members---please---for once in your lives---be honest---be truthful in your analysis---but pakistanis can't even do that even after multiple warnings.

Smacking on your hand is different than slitting your throat---the french sanctions were like a smack on the hand---the U S sanctions were like slitting the throat---.

It is again disinformation to compare the two on the same level---.

The bottomline is---when the war came---the boys in the blue were not ready---.

The poster is right----the Paf never showed any urgency in buying aircraft after 9/11.

The scenario is just like this---someone's mother is dying for a lack of medicine---9/11 happens---medicine becomes available---the son claims---my mother is not that sick----she don't need medicine in a hurry---she is okay----she was never sick.

You are not coming out fighting----what is happening is that you have yet to learn to steam roll over those who have lame excuses----this is not fighting----this is covering up incompetence deceit and deception----this is trying to save you face from humiliation rather than face the truth-----.

MK.
The only thing we got was the AMRAAM which did not arrive till 2008-9. The SD10s arrived with the first lot of JF17. But we did not have a platform to mate it to. Now if you consider it a sob story then more power to you.
I would remind you and all the readers that on the first visit to US by Musharraf, Bush blatantly denied us newer F16s. We were rebuffed on the Gripen on grounds that their Governemnt does not sell offensive weapons in an area of conflict. And the french royally shafted us by denying us M2Ks which we wanted quoting us 60 million a pop for them.
If you can find an angle of delay on PAFs part feel free to elaborate.
By the way the French also denied us their M2Ks in 98.
A