PAF Air to Air and Air to Ground missile systems should evolve

[Paksanity]

Atleast they are in talks best of my knowledge

What type of air to air missile our mirages v carries

Those are just rumours. PAF did not say they are in talks. One should not believe rumours.

 

[Super Falcon]

Those are just rumours. PAF did not say they are in talks. One should not believe rumours.

Yes agreed with your logic but let's suppose if they are you support them or not

 

[Darth Vader]

@Super Falcon buddy hold your horses
1 Pakistan isnt going for mirage neither sukhoi not in close 10 to 15 years atleast
2 as for wasting time BVR needs a bvr capable system too the latest bvr capable platform paf added is Thunder and the other option was f16 there was no platform in paf inventory beside f16 which was truly bvr capable
3 you cant just simple install different kind of weapon systems on different platforms
4 positive critism is a good thing but you must see the full facts
Do tell me how many squaderns did iaf added in there inventory in last 5 years
Pakistan just added 13 birds last year and
Already plans are on place to get more used f16s and get thm upgraded to block 50
Every thing is not black and white as you think

And as a smaller nation it will be suicidal to show there all there cards to enemy
All militaries try to keep many systems of the grid.

Why its so important for random guys to know everything you are not in that field why you wanna know about ?

 

[Super Falcon]

@Super Falcon buddy hold your horses
1 Pakistan isnt going for mirage neither sukhoi not in close 10 to 15 years atleast
2 as for wasting time BVR needs a bvr capable system too the latest bvr capable platform paf added is Thunder and the other option was f16 there was no platform in paf inventory beside f16 which was truly bvr capable
3 you cant just simple install different kind of weapon systems on different platforms
4 positive critism is a good thing but you must see the full facts
Do tell me how many squaderns did iaf added in there inventory in last 5 years
Pakistan just added 13 birds last year and
Already plans are on place to get more used f16s and get thm upgraded to block 50
Every thing is not black and white as you think

And as a smaller nation it will be suicidal to show there all there cards to enemy
All militaries try to keep many systems of the grid.

Why its so important for random guys to know everything you are not in that field why you wanna know about ?

How does mirage 2000 which are not upgraded at that time in 99 kargil war carried BVR MISSILES

@Super Falcon buddy hold your horses
1 Pakistan isnt going for mirage neither sukhoi not in close 10 to 15 years atleast
2 as for wasting time BVR needs a bvr capable system too the latest bvr capable platform paf added is Thunder and the other option was f16 there was no platform in paf inventory beside f16 which was truly bvr capable
3 you cant just simple install different kind of weapon systems on different platforms
4 positive critism is a good thing but you must see the full facts
Do tell me how many squaderns did iaf added in there inventory in last 5 years
Pakistan just added 13 birds last year and
Already plans are on place to get more used f16s and get thm upgraded to block 50
Every thing is not black and white as you think

And as a smaller nation it will be suicidal to show there all there cards to enemy
All militaries try to keep many systems of the grid.

Why its so important for random guys to know everything you are not in that field why you wanna know about ?

Is that any crime to get a knowledge of your interest

Yes I must have knowledge how well we are equiped

 

[DavidSling]

Brothers recently I was searching for type of missiles PAF uses I come across this

Currently there are four types of missiles in PAF inventory. They are :

AIM - 9 P2:

The AIM-9P2 is the 1980s update of the older AIM-9Bs. It has improved lead acquisition capability, solid state electronics, improved infrared warhead and a reduced smoke motor. The Sidewinder has been Pakistan's standard air-to-air missile since 1956. The range is from 4 to 8 Km.

AIM - 9 L:

This is the latest version of this long-lived missile. It weighs 86 Kg. compared to 75 Kg. of -9Bs. It is an all-aspect attack missile and also has greater ECM protection. The range is about 10 Km.

MATRA R 550:

It is a 91 Kg. infrared seeker, intended for dog-fight missions. The range is from 2 to 10 Km. depending on the altitude and speed. It is of French origin that came with the Mirages but can also arm A-5s and other aircraft.

PL - 5:

The Chinese PL-5 is infact a copy of the French -550 missile but lacking the performance of its counterpart. It was supplied with the F-7Ps. The range is from 4 to 6 km

Air to Ground


This missile was introduced in 1983. It is for use against tanks, ships and concrete defence. It has a TV guidance and the warhead weighs 57 and 136 Kg. It costs between $60,000 and $100,000. The missile is carried by the F-16 aircraft and has a kill rate of around 80 %.

AM - 39:

The air-launched Exocet AM-39 anti-ship missiles are carried by the PAF's Mirage VPA3 of No. 8 Maritime Squardon for maritime strike. They can also be carried by the Atlantic aircraft and Sea King helicopter of the Navy. The range is from 40 to 75 km. The missile weighs about 655 Kg. with a 165 Kg. warhead. It can fly at just under Mach 1 at about 2-3 m above water.


Bombs

Atlas:

Atlas guided bomb was basically intended for the Mirage V aircraft, but after a modification PAF has been able to arm F-16s with it also. This gives PAF a real lethal strike capability. The bomb weighs 2000 lb. and can be guided and fired through Thompson CSF pod.

Paveway:

This bomb weighs 2000 lbs. and is carried by the F-16 aircraft. It costs somewhere around $30,000. and the kit can be applied to bombs anywhere within the 500 to 3000 lb. range. It is usually fired at a height less than 2000 ft. and has a range of about 2 - 4 km.

Durrandal:

Durrandel is an airfield attack munition that is used to crater runways. It weighs 195 Kg. and six to ten can be carried by the Mirage III/V aircraft. The penetration is claimed to be 40 cm of concrete and area disrupted to be 150 to 200 sq.m.

Rockeye:

Rockeyes are basically cluster-bombs i.e numerous bomblets are present in a bomb shell which are released at a particular height. It is a wide area weapon which is used against troop and artillary concentrations. Weight is some where around 600 lb.


General Purpose HE Bombs:

PAF has general purpose bombs of 250 lb. 500 lb. 750 lb. and the 1000 lb. range that are used against large land targets. They don't have any guidance systems and are used either for the troop harrasment or against buildings. These are carried by F-16, Mirage V and the A-5 aircraft.


Most of missiles we are using from 80s era and recently we got anti radiation missile from South Africa which should have bought atleast by early 90s

Why PAF hesitating taking bold decisions

Israel completly changed the aircraft with it's own systems, only the base structure stayed the same
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f-16i/
As for air to air Missiles
Python 5

Python-5 is a fifth generation air-to-air missile and the latest member of the Python family. The missile provides the pilot engaging an enemy aircraft with a revolutionary full sphere launch capability. Python-5 can be launched from a very short range to beyond visual range with greater probability of kill and excellent resistance to countermeasures. The missile is also offered in an air defense configuration.

• Full sphere launch envelope from very short to beyond visual ranges
• Excellent acquisition and tracking performance
• Target Lock-On-Before and After Launch capability
• Excellent resistance to countermeasures
• Greater probability of kill

Derby

Rafael's Derby is a fully developed Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missile. The missile offers excellent performance and maneuverability in both medium and short range engagements. The missile is also offered in an air defense configuration.

Main features:

• Active radar seeker
• Designed for both medium and short range
• All weather performance
• Look-down/Shoot-down capability
• Lock On Before Launch (LOBL) mode for tight dogfights
• Advanced programmable ECCM
• Lightweight
• Fully developed, tested and proven missile

http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/203-en/Marketing.aspx

 

[Super Falcon]

Israel completly changed the aircraft with it's own systems, only the base structure stayed the same
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f-16i/
As for air to air Missiles
Python 5

Python-5 is a fifth generation air-to-air missile and the latest member of the Python family. The missile provides the pilot engaging an enemy aircraft with a revolutionary full sphere launch capability. Python-5 can be launched from a very short range to beyond visual range with greater probability of kill and excellent resistance to countermeasures. The missile is also offered in an air defense configuration.

• Full sphere launch envelope from very short to beyond visual ranges
• Excellent acquisition and tracking performance
• Target Lock-On-Before and After Launch capability
• Excellent resistance to countermeasures
• Greater probability of kill

Derby

Rafael's Derby is a fully developed Beyond Visual Range (BVR) air-to-air missile. The missile offers excellent performance and maneuverability in both medium and short range engagements. The missile is also offered in an air defense configuration.

Main features:

• Active radar seeker
• Designed for both medium and short range
• All weather performance
• Look-down/Shoot-down capability
• Lock On Before Launch (LOBL) mode for tight dogfights
• Advanced programmable ECCM
• Lightweight
• Fully developed, tested and proven missile

http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/203-en/Marketing.aspx

Python 5 is great derby is Israel made

 

[DavidSling]

Python 5 is great derby is Israel made

Both are made by Israel's Rafael

 

[Super Falcon]

Both are made by Israel's Rafael

Thank you for correction

Which air to air missile is the best in the world
AIM 120 with F 16 and with F 22 how it works with them missile is similar but does it take info from jets radar of. Detection

 

[New World]

do you have a spare $10+ billion to give to buy some fancy new kit, if not be quiet

Money can be arranged IF there is will in PAF thinkers. like $5-6 billion were arranged for PN..

 

[Paksanity]

Yes agreed with your logic but let's suppose if they are you support them or not

No, I don't think it is a good idea. I believe PAF takes smarter decisions and smart decision in today's situation would be to induct as many JF-17s and as many F-16s (New+old) as possible within our financial means. In addition bring in potent SAMs to deter any adventure. That is all we should do.

PAF is not made from aliens. Those are Pakistani people drawn from same society. They will commit mistakes like normal human beings and I am sure there would be some corruption too. But of all the military branches, I find them most efficient and pragmatic. You will hardly find any air force which has so limited resources and yet have maintained such a performance. There will be short comings but most of them originate from lack of available choices e.g. political, diplomatic and financial. Despite being smaller air force, PAF has done brilliant in major conflicts.

Wisdom always trumps emotions. We must take wise decisions. We can not engage in arms race with a 7 times larger but we can not compromise our security as well. Learn from what US did to USSR. They drew them into an arms race that Soviet Union could never win. In the end Soviet Union collapsed trying to match US. Soviets never had the economy to sustain such race. Hundereds of Soviet aircraft were left rotting on ground and their upgrades projects were shut down. It was only after Russian economy improved that they started to partially improve their defence forces. There is nothing you can do without economy. It's impossible and a sure way to suicide. We should be wise and not emotional. PAF is doing the right thing. They are not sitting still but they can not pull off miracles. They are doing whatever can be done under the circumstances. Vote in good honest leaders, improve economy and improve tax system then we shall all have better lives and bettet defence. Time of miracles has gone with the Prophets.

 

[war&peace]

Oh yara.
I know the British raped our historyand our culture but are you going to do what they did when a few of us who saw the time are still alive. You guys harp on about getting this and that. Tell me who was selling you all of these goodies that you want to buy? . Who was selling you BVRs ? The fact is no one. Even US gave you BVRs wit hthe Bl.52s primarily because of the fact that IAF had it and also because the Chinese were going to give you SD10. So when you complain please look back at history and do some leg work before you make broad reaching statements. To give you an exampleyour lovely French bosom cronies stopped your deliveries of the Augusta 90B nad the upgraded M3/5sROSEs during the 2002 face off with the Indians. The next thing you need to consider is what are you going to mate your BVRs with. With the exception of the 16s there was not a single plane capable enough to have a BVR simply because the radar range was not there. I cant say with assurance but even if you had tried to get some BVR you would have been rebuffed.I think there was some limited BVR capability on the M3/5s but if you went on and shot down anIAF plane on their land it would have been an open declaration of war which was totally contrary to the aims of Kargil. So before one harps about shameful this or that realize what limitations you have and what you have to work with. I would be the first one to say that the whole of Pakistan is rife with corruption but where criticism is being labelled for the sake of it I will come out fighting.

Sir,

Very good points and what you said may be 100% true. However, one thing is that we should always utilise when we get the opportunity but to us it seems, the decision making is sluggish. They kind of wait until such window of the opportunity is about to be closed(especially in lieu to USA). I'm not hinting at corruption (not over-ruling that 100% either) but I think PAF leadership has put some invisible locks on its thinking for example PAF cannot buy Russian origin aircrafts, a twin engine heavy is not useful or PAF cannot operate it.
I think now the opportunity for Su-35 is there but instead they have chosen to go for scrapes.

 

[Blue Marlin]

If you don't want to reply better don't

Above it if PAF is short on money why buying mirages did you offering them money

Th

Aank you sir I appreciate your help in getting exact info

Sir I have a question don't answer me as a PAF employee answer me as true Pakistani

Do we need one more BVR missile other than AIM 120

and of my knowledge we lack better air to ground missiles and like carpet bombs to destroy airfields

Other than exocet and harpoon which new anti ship missile should we have

I personally think PAF have SU 35 so it has different type of air to air and air to ground missiles in war time if USA block our missiles we procure 2 different type of missiles from China and Russia


Sir windjammer

SU 35 VS F 16 BLK 52
as a professional who has better survivability chance

second hand mirages are cheaper than brand new birds.
the mk2 sale wont happen its just miss communication

 

[Ultima Thule]

Brothers recently I was searching for type of missiles PAF uses I come across this

Currently there are four types of missiles in PAF inventory. They are :

AIM - 9 P2:

The AIM-9P2 is the 1980s update of the older AIM-9Bs. It has improved lead acquisition capability, solid state electronics, improved infrared warhead and a reduced smoke motor. The Sidewinder has been Pakistan's standard air-to-air missile since 1956. The range is from 4 to 8 Km.

AIM - 9 L:

This is the latest version of this long-lived missile. It weighs 86 Kg. compared to 75 Kg. of -9Bs. It is an all-aspect attack missile and also has greater ECM protection. The range is about 10 Km.

MATRA R 550:

It is a 91 Kg. infrared seeker, intended for dog-fight missions. The range is from 2 to 10 Km. depending on the altitude and speed. It is of French origin that came with the Mirages but can also arm A-5s and other aircraft.

PL - 5:

The Chinese PL-5 is infact a copy of the French -550 missile but lacking the performance of its counterpart. It was supplied with the F-7Ps. The range is from 4 to 6 km

Air to Ground


This missile was introduced in 1983. It is for use against tanks, ships and concrete defence. It has a TV guidance and the warhead weighs 57 and 136 Kg. It costs between $60,000 and $100,000. The missile is carried by the F-16 aircraft and has a kill rate of around 80 %.

AM - 39:

The air-launched Exocet AM-39 anti-ship missiles are carried by the PAF's Mirage VPA3 of No. 8 Maritime Squardon for maritime strike. They can also be carried by the Atlantic aircraft and Sea King helicopter of the Navy. The range is from 40 to 75 km. The missile weighs about 655 Kg. with a 165 Kg. warhead. It can fly at just under Mach 1 at about 2-3 m above water.


Bombs

Atlas:

Atlas guided bomb was basically intended for the Mirage V aircraft, but after a modification PAF has been able to arm F-16s with it also. This gives PAF a real lethal strike capability. The bomb weighs 2000 lb. and can be guided and fired through Thompson CSF pod.

Paveway:

This bomb weighs 2000 lbs. and is carried by the F-16 aircraft. It costs somewhere around $30,000. and the kit can be applied to bombs anywhere within the 500 to 3000 lb. range. It is usually fired at a height less than 2000 ft. and has a range of about 2 - 4 km.

Durrandal:

Durrandel is an airfield attack munition that is used to crater runways. It weighs 195 Kg. and six to ten can be carried by the Mirage III/V aircraft. The penetration is claimed to be 40 cm of concrete and area disrupted to be 150 to 200 sq.m.

Rockeye:

Rockeyes are basically cluster-bombs i.e numerous bomblets are present in a bomb shell which are released at a particular height. It is a wide area weapon which is used against troop and artillary concentrations. Weight is some where around 600 lb.


General Purpose HE Bombs:

PAF has general purpose bombs of 250 lb. 500 lb. 750 lb. and the 1000 lb. range that are used against large land targets. They don't have any guidance systems and are used either for the troop harrasment or against buildings. These are carried by F-16, Mirage V and the A-5 aircraft.


Most of missiles we are using from 80s era and recently we got anti radiation missile from South Africa which should have bought atleast by early 90s

Why PAF hesitating taking bold decisions

you are not included SD-10, PL-9C and C-802, C803, CM-400AGK and lot more stuff you miss sir

 

[Paksanity]

India Add 1 Squadron of MKI Each year over 60-70 New MKI Added in last 5 years

Numbers Will cross 300+

Did anyone ask about India or it's just your insecurity?

 

[X-2.]

Did PAF say they are buying Mirages?

The are not into romirages rather powering home made birds and moderations of jf 17 engines etc with. Russia