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Our idol Mao Zedong - Europeans and the Communist Cultural Revolution

Nilgiri said:
Long is a good guy (and Yao Ming fan)...we just like to troll each other a bit. No long term bitter nasties have cropped up like in BD subforum heh (for me).

Long does not have a huge chip on shoulder over anything much (at least from what I have seen).
Click to expand...

Yeah. He has never been the unsavoury types just like andrewjin. That is why have quoted him and tagged you.

Some of the Pakistani members though, and that Feng Leng, are a perfect waste of time.
 
. . .
Nilgiri said:
Found it a really interesting watch (esp if you are interested in 20th century China like me), and ties in somewhat with some of the ongoing threads right now:


Comments appreciated as always.

@Vergennes @Indus Pakistan @Joe Shearer @jhungary @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @Oscar @Chinese-Dragon @GeraltofRivia @Desert Fox @Psychic @Mage @django @long_ @Two @Skull and Bones @OsmanAli98 @Cobra Arbok @VCheng @jamahir @Zibago @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @war&peace @bluesky
Click to expand...

The world have an obsession toward an underdog. Whenever we see someone or something is in disadvantage, our natural sentiment is to want that to see through the hardship and thrive.

A lot of people once ask me, why there are so much love for the "Freedom Fighter"? The answer is quite simple, we want people to succeed, regardless of what their goal was, I can write a script and twisted it so you would be rooting for the killer and not the victim, it seems crazy but we do. That's human nature.

In Political Science, there are 2 type of citizens. The first one always see the government is correct, either by ignoring the harm they done, or actively participating to the harm lead to all or particular group of citizens. While the other group of citizens always think the government is a bully, out to get them. And they will do whatever to resist the current government or regime or dictatorship.

Why I say that? You may ask, what the hell did all these have to do with Mao and Communism?

Say whatever you want, Mao is a highly intelligent person, all dictator does, they know when and where is the limit, and what they can or cannot do to make their own rules. And that's what Mao plays communism like a fiddle in China.

If one look at Communism struggle in China before and after WW2, we can see a very steep contrast, before WW2, Communism is supported mostly by northern farmer (Back then the capital of China is in the South) and the traction were much and at no time they were able to get into gear on rebelling the then current republic government. Let alone starting a Civil War and win it. At best, we can only say prior to 1937, CPC is raising an insurgency with KMT.

After WW2, everything changes, because of 1 reason and 1 reason only, the Japanese. CPC were a part of minority during the struggle, and Chiang's KMT was in charge, so Mao do what all Dictator does best, blame the government (like how Lenin blame the Tsar for instability during WW1) Mao lay blame for all the death, carnage, destruction toward the KMT and their inability to defeat the Japanese, lading to such a country. If I were a normal Chinese Citizens, under KMT rules, I would believe what Mao said. Yes, KMT is in charge, and now my folks are dead because of the Japs, that's KMT fault. People don't generally think of things in a complicated manner, the blame to the outcome of the war is as much CPC fault, as much as KMT.

That's where the traction come from, and once you gain the traction you need, you then need an enemy. Traditional Wisdom suggested a close one, we need to fight KMT so this does not happens again. And then you have people joining the rank, after they saw the carnage in War, and that's how Mao rally people and fight KMT.

But if Red Dawn (the movie, the old one not the new one) did teach us anything, that is a partisan could never be used to fight for the authority. Because that's what partisan is, they FIGHT AGAINST AUTHORITY, they fight against government establishment. So now, the time is 1950, CPC gained leadership in Mainland China. Where are all the communist goes? Where are all the partisan goes? If Mao keep them, they would one day turn against Mao when these people have a second Mao coming and poke holes at the current regime. Mao don't want that, and Mao, again do what he does best, that is to find someone or something to fight against , this time, it is the American. In a place called Korea. The fight serves 2 purposes, first, it give the partisan something to fight about, a clause to fight, even tho North Korea and China have no common ground and the war was started by the North Korean. The second purpose is to basically send people who had voice concern for Mao regime to certain death, thus "Cleaning the house" see it as a "Purge" if you will, but that is what Mao effectively does.

So what next? 4 Years in Korea, fought against the US and the UN, and loses multiple of millions of men, but that's okay, because they are deemed anti-party anyway. But after the war, Mao would need his men to focus on something, but not the flaw shown in his regime (Which has a lot) what does he do? Yes, the great leap forward, basically a rally call for people who need to work for the central government, put their people into work, and drawing people from all the farmland (where it is the birth place of Chinese communism) into steel worker. Why? Coming from Mao himself, people who are full in the stomach would think of stupid thing, but people who are hungry, would put their priority into staying alive first. With no one left to farm, where are the food come from? There are none. And people goes hungry, thus establishing another underdog situation. "Hey. if we live thru this, and bring China over the Steel production of UK or US or whatever, that is a story that we are not slowing down by this famine" Little does these people know, this famine. Are directly man-made, caused by, you guess it, Mao, himself.

So what next? People who survived that, live into 1960s, that is before American involvement in Vietnam, and in the early 1960s, there aren't anyone big enough to fight, if you think that, you are dead wrong. Because you have forgotten about the Chinese Northern Neighbour, and probably 1 of the biggest power on earth at that time, Soviet Union.

While the spat between China and Soviet is nothing new, then come Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, nothing mush at first but Khrushchev denouncing Stalinism irk Mao, and the relationship between the 2 goes sour, Khrushchev withdraw support to China, and Mao, again, does what he do best, blame Khrushchev for the disaster outcome of Great Leap Forward, hey don't blame me your neighbour died, blame Khrushchev as he pull all the scientist and advisor from us. He is the one you need to blame, not me. As before, people bought it. Even tho Khrushchev have nothing to do with GLF, he wasn't even in charge of Soviet Union when Mao announce his15 years GLF plan. Chinese hate Russian, Russian hate Chinese, that's enough for that decade.

However, 1 undesirable effect coming off from Sino-Soviet Split is basically drawing China closer than US, communism ideological enemy. And when China goes so far to abandon support of North Vietnam in favour of having a normal relationship with the US, that create a problem, Mao have running out of people to blame, and when China eventually normalise relationship with Soviet Union in 1966 as well, the list is now Empty. So to survive, who are Mao gonna blame this time? The answer is easy, blame their own people, if you have something wrong, then it must be your problem, not communism, and thus we need to re-educate you in a camp, or disappear you altogether. That's when Mao started his so-called "Cultural Revolution" And the rest is history.

This may have been a story of a dictator who try desperately stay in power, or just a timeline of CPC rise in China, different people will see it differently. As I said many times before, you need to read your own label.
 
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hellfire said:
Some of the Pakistani members though, and that Feng Leng, are a perfect waste of time.
Click to expand...

Top PDF trolls and their famous quotes:

@Viva_Viet
"China chaos 2023!"
"Deng lick US-JP azz in 1978 !!1! *picture of Deng*"


@Feng Leng
"Can't wait to drop some nukes on population centers!"
"Proper way to deal with enemies is to kill them and their families"
"They should be beheaded in front of our ambassador!"
"Look forward to American tourist in China returning in bags of corpses"
 
.
Nilgiri said:
Found it a really interesting watch (esp if you are interested in 20th century China like me), and ties in somewhat with some of the ongoing threads right now:


Comments appreciated as always.

@Vergennes @Indus Pakistan @Joe Shearer @jhungary @gambit @Hamartia Antidote @Oscar @Chinese-Dragon @GeraltofRivia @Desert Fox @Psychic @Mage @django @long_ @Two @Skull and Bones @OsmanAli98 @Cobra Arbok @VCheng @jamahir @Zibago @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @war&peace @bluesky
Click to expand...

Few Chinese know how popular Culture Revolution was in Europe, Japan.

Jlaw said:
Mao was great. Americans feared him. He kicked out all white imperialist and laid out the industrial foundation for China.
Click to expand...

West imperialists love Gandhi.
 
.
hellfire said:
Like Hukou! What is the status?




I always take the truth as it stands. So when Chinese 'learned' members talk about Dokalam Plateau and Chumar incident, former which I know since 1993 and latter personally witnessed, I try to put them in correct picture. :)

@Nilgiri

Amusing. More fun than Bangla
Click to expand...

Comparing residency status with hereditary caste system based on race, in which low caste can't share the same drinking water, is not exactly espousing truth as it stands.

Likewise, comparing a documented war of 1962 with border skirmish of 1967. Objective are different form both sides. Doklam incident, Chinese demanded Indian retreat from the disputed area first before any talks. And Indian did retreat first.

Measured dispensing of truth, yes. Taking truth as it stands, no.
 
. . .
jhungary said:
The world have an obsession toward an underdog. Whenever we see someone or something is in disadvantage, our natural sentiment is to want that to see through the hardship and thrive.

A lot of people once ask me, why there are so much love for the "Freedom Fighter"? The answer is quite simple, we want people to succeed, regardless of what their goal was, I can write a script and twisted it so you would be rooting for the killer and not the victim, it seems crazy but we do. That's human nature.

In Political Science, there are 2 type of citizens. The first one always see the government is correct, either by ignoring the harm they done, or actively participating to the harm lead to all or particular group of citizens. While the other group of citizens always think the government is a bully, out to get them. And they will do whatever to resist the current government or regime or dictatorship.

Why I say that? You may ask, what the hell did all these have to do with Mao and Communism?

Say whatever you want, Mao is a highly intelligent person, all dictator does, they know when and where is the limit, and what they can or cannot do to make their own rules. And that's what Mao plays communism like a fiddle in China.

If one look at Communism struggle in China before and after WW2, we can see a very steep contrast, before WW2, Communism is supported mostly by northern farmer (Back then the capital of China is in the South) and the traction were much and at no time they were able to get into gear on rebelling the then current republic government. Let alone starting a Civil War and win it. At best, we can only say prior to 1937, CPC is raising an insurgency with KMT.

After WW2, everything changes, because of 1 reason and 1 reason only, the Japanese. CPC were a part of minority during the struggle, and Chiang's KMT was in charge, so Mao do what all Dictator does best, blame the government (like how Lenin blame the Tsar for instability during WW1) Mao lay blame for all the death, carnage, destruction toward the KMT and their inability to defeat the Japanese, lading to such a country. If I were a normal Chinese Citizens, under KMT rules, I would believe what Mao said. Yes, KMT is in charge, and now my folks are dead because of the Japs, that's KMT fault. People don't generally think of things in a complicated manner, the blame to the outcome of the war is as much CPC fault, as much as KMT.

That's where the traction come from, and once you gain the traction you need, you then need an enemy. Traditional Wisdom suggested a close one, we need to fight KMT so this does not happens again. And then you have people joining the rank, after they saw the carnage in War, and that's how Mao rally people and fight KMT.

But if Red Dawn (the movie, the old one not the new one) did teach us anything, that is a partisan could never be used to fight for the authority. Because that's what partisan is, they FIGHT AGAINST AUTHORITY, they fight against government establishment. So now, the time is 1950, CPC gained leadership in Mainland China. Where are all the communist goes? Where are all the partisan goes? If Mao keep them, they would one day turn against Mao when these people have a second Mao coming and poke holes at the current regime. Mao don't want that, and Mao, again do what he does best, that is to find someone or something to fight against , this time, it is the American. In a place called Korea. The fight serves 2 purposes, first, it give the partisan something to fight about, a clause to fight, even tho North Korea and China have no common ground and the war was started by the North Korean. The second purpose is to basically send people who had voice concern for Mao regime to certain death, thus "Cleaning the house" see it as a "Purge" if you will, but that is what Mao effectively does.

So what next? 4 Years in Korea, fought against the US and the UN, and loses multiple of millions of men, but that's okay, because they are deemed anti-party anyway. But after the war, Mao would need his men to focus on something, but not the flaw shown in his regime (Which has a lot) what does he do? Yes, the great leap forward, basically a rally call for people who need to work for the central government, put their people into work, and drawing people from all the farmland (where it is the birth place of Chinese communism) into steel worker. Why? Coming from Mao himself, people who are full in the stomach would think of stupid thing, but people who are hungry, would put their priority into staying alive first. With no one left to farm, where are the food come from? There are none. And people goes hungry, thus establishing another underdog situation. "Hey. if we live thru this, and bring China over the Steel production of UK or US or whatever, that is a story that we are not slowing down by this famine" Little does these people know, this famine. Are directly man-made, caused by, you guess it, Mao, himself.

So what next? People who survived that, live into 1960s, that is before American involvement in Vietnam, and in the early 1960s, there aren't anyone big enough to fight, if you think that, you are dead wrong. Because you have forgotten about the Chinese Northern Neighbour, and probably 1 of the biggest power on earth at that time, Soviet Union.

While the spat between China and Soviet is nothing new, then come Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, nothing mush at first but Khrushchev denouncing Stalinism irk Mao, and the relationship between the 2 goes sour, Khrushchev withdraw support to China, and Mao, again, does what he do best, blame Khrushchev for the disaster outcome of Great Leap Forward, hey don't blame me your neighbour died, blame Khrushchev as he pull all the scientist and advisor from us. He is the one you need to blame, not me. As before, people bought it. Even tho Khrushchev have nothing to do with GLF, he wasn't even in charge of Soviet Union when Mao announce his15 years GLF plan. Chinese hate Russian, Russian hate Chinese, that's enough for that decade.

However, 1 undesirable effect coming off from Sino-Soviet Split is basically drawing China closer than US, communism ideological enemy. And when China goes so far to abandon support of North Vietnam in favour of having a normal relationship with the US, that create a problem, Mao have running out of people to blame, and when China eventually normalise relationship with Soviet Union in 1966 as well, the list is now Empty. So to survive, who are Mao gonna blame this time? The answer is easy, blame their own people, if you have something wrong, then it must be your problem, not communism, and thus we need to re-educate you in a camp, or disappear you altogether. That's when Mao started his so-called "Cultural Revolution" And the rest is history.

This may have been a story of a dictator who try desperately stay in power, or just a timeline of CPC rise in China, different people will see it differently. As I said many times before, you need to read your own label.
Click to expand...

Great post bud, wish I could rate you +.

@Joe Shearer @hellfire @Mage @VCheng ... interesting read when you have a few minutes.

Mista said:
Top PDF trolls and their famous quotes:

@Viva_Viet
"China chaos 2023!"
"Deng lick US-JP azz in 1978 !!1! *picture of Deng*"


@Feng Leng
"Can't wait to drop some nukes on population centers!"
"Proper way to deal with enemies is to kill them and their families"
"They should be beheaded in front of our ambassador!"
"Look forward to American tourist in China returning in bags of corpses"
Click to expand...

LOL...they are the best.
 
. .
Mista said:
@Feng Leng
"Can't wait to drop some nukes on population centers!"
"Proper way to deal with enemies is to kill them and their families"
"They should be beheaded in front of our ambassador!"
"Look forward to American tourist in China returning in bags of corpses"
Click to expand...
This guy is the best. I remember he said something like 'Can't wait for China to make a preemptive nuclear strike on Canada'......he has some fetish for nuclear blast.
 
.
Mage said:
This guy is the best. I remember he said something like 'Can't wait for China to make a preemptive nuclear strike on Canada'......he has some fetish for nuclear blast.
Click to expand...

Its a pity, because before he went off his meds or whatever it was thats turned him like this lately...he was somewhat decent in lot of topics. I remember both him and I confronting some PRC hyperfeelz-nationalists that were preaching a very extreme ethno-IQ be-all end-all position when he was newer here,.... thread example:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/high...6-update-list-25.545022/page-10#post-10268042

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/high...16-update-list-25.545022/page-5#post-10265868
 
.
The real architect for Chinese success is Deng Xiaoping. He is very clear minded of open economy, capitalism. He is un-nerved by the western plot of fake democracy instigating the Tiananmen square incident unlike the Soviet foolish leadership who is unsure what to do when western plot start unfolding them which led to Soviet collapse.

Deng already has a vision of shaping China 40 years later from 1978.
 
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Nilgiri said:
Great post bud, wish I could rate you +.

@Joe Shearer @hellfire @Mage @VCheng ... interesting read when you have a few minutes.



LOL...they are the best.
Click to expand...

Didn't do it for the +, that's just a sum up from a 3 years Political Science degree (was 4 years but took 1 years off prior studies), was gonna write a bit more and not stopped just short of Cultural Revolution, but it was quite late and I got to get up early and work this morning.

But that is probably the extract for China on the last 70 years.

VCheng said:
@jhungary always brings an interesting perspective on matters he wishes to post, without a doubt.
Click to expand...

lol I have an interesting perspective even when I troll :)

But seriously, I used to write a lot of these kind post, but this forum did worn me down a lot and now I don't want to write anything remotely interesting. Not sure will I ever be going back to the same level of contribution as before, that's depends on the forum direction, but sadly, I will have to say, it's gone worse since and I never even saw it go back up 1 bit.

Either way, according to some group of people here, I am just another troll, so...… I don't know man.
 
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