Option's for PAF ?

[abtank10]

What happily ever after, the J-10B has the advantage of look down shoot down on the Rafale. It is a multirole fighter, and with this known capability (in informed circles), the Rafale won't be able to fulfill its ground strike mission while a deadly something with BVR ans AESA is watch it it from above...

In your dreams only, yes J10 B can only shoot down rafale in your dreams, the sensors and weaponry u talking about is worlds best........J 10 B doesn't stand a chance against rafale...........

1 – RBE2 / AESA – “Active Electronically Scanned Array” radar

The RAFALE is the first operational – and so far, the only – European combat aircraft to use an electronic scanning radar. Developed by THALES, the RBE2 radar has benefited from a massive research effort and from THALES’ unmatched know-how based on past experience. Compared to radars with conventional antennas, unprecedented levels of situational awareness are attained with earlier detection and tracking of multiple targets.

With its superior beam agility and its enormous computing power, the RBE2 offers outstanding performance that cannot be replicated by mechanical scanning radars.

In October 2012, the first RAFALE fighter equipped with an “Active Electronically Scanned Array” (AESA) RBE2 radar was delivered to the French MoD. The AESA provides a wide range of functions:

• All-aspect look-up and look-down detection and tracking of multiple air targets for close combat and long-range interception, in all weather and in severe jamming environments,

• Ability to track targets in, or out of the search domain, bringing the ultimate advantage in air combat,

• Real time generation of three-dimensional maps for terrain-following above uncharted terrain in blind conditions. TheRAFALE is the sole new generation combat aircraft to currently propose such a function,

• Real time generation of high resolution 2D ground maps for navigation updates and detection, identification and designation of ground targets,

• Detection and tracking of multiple naval targets.

The RBE2-AESA is fully compatible in terms of detection range with the upcoming long range METEOR air-to-air missile. The AESA offers an unprecedented growth-potential for the future.

In those situations where discretion becomes the single most important tactical factor, the RAFALE can rely on several other sensor systems:

2 – “Front Sector Optronics” – FSO

Developed by THALES, the “Front Sector Optronics” (FSO) system is fully integrated into the aircraft. Operating in the optronic wavelengths, it is immune to radar jamming and it provides covert long-range detection and identification, high resolution angular tracking and laser range-finding for air, sea and ground targets.

The FSO’s powerful TV sensor (cued by the RAFALE’sactive and passive sensors) is truly valuable to positively identify targets in situations where a visual contact is required by the rules of engagement.

3 – SPECTRA – internal Electronic Warfare suite

Jointly developed by THALES and MBDA, the SPECTRAinternal “Electronic Warfare” (EW) system is the cornerstone of the Rafale’s outstanding survivability against the latest airborne and ground threats.

It is fully integrated with other systems in the aircraft, and it provides a multi-spectral threat warning capability against hostile radars, missiles and lasers.

The SPECTRA system carries out reliable long-range detection, identification and localisation of threats, allowing the pilot to instantly select the most effective defensive measures based on combinations of radar jamming, infrared or radar decoying and evasive manoeuvres.

The angular localisation performance of the SPECTRA sensors makes it possible to accurately locate ground threats in order to avoid them, or to target them for destruction with precision guided munitions.

The outstanding capability of SPECTRA regarding airborne threat localisation, is one of the keys of the RAFALE’s superior situational awareness.

Also instrumental in SPECTRA‘s performance is a threat library that can be easily defined, integrated and updated on short notice by users in their own country, and in full autonomy.

SPECTRA now includes a new generation missile warning system that offers increased detection performance against the latest threats.

4 – Net-centric capability

The net-centric capability of the RAFALE hinges on its open architecture, its data fusion software and its compatibility with a variety of data links, which “plug” the RAFALE into the integrated battlespace.

A secure high-rate data link is provided to share data in combined air operations in real time with other aircraft in the formation, airborne and surface command and control centres, tactical air controllers or other friendly assets. The Link 16 data link is also available to those customers cleared to operate it.

The RAFALE’s interoperability, as part of a multinational operation, has been demonstrated on countless occasions, and Link 16 as well as non-NATO solutions can be provided to meet various customers’ requirements.

5 – DAMOCLES – Laser designation pod

The DAMOCLES laser designator pod designed byTHALES, brings full day and night laser designation capability to the RAFALE, with metric precision. It permits laser-guided weapons to be delivered at stand-off range and altitude.

The IR sensor of the DAMOCLES pod operates in the mid-wave infrared band, allowing it to retain its effectiveness in warm and / or humid conditions.

DAMOCLES is interoperable with all existing laser-guided weapons.

6 – AREOS – Recce pod – with real-time transmission

For both strategic and tactical reconnaissance missions, the French Armed Forces have adopted the new generationTHALES AREOS reconnaissance system for the RAFALE.

As demonstrated in Libya, Mali, the Central African Republic and Iraq, this high-tech, day and night equipment can be used in a wide range of scenarios, from stand-off distance at high altitude down to high speed and extremely low-level.

The outstanding performance of AREOS in stand-off reconnaissance makes it a sensor with a true pre-strategic value.

Sabre vs Gnats?

saber slayers

 

[CHI RULES]

All Chinese aircrafts are inspired by Russian jets along with indigenous RND. if Chinese jets like J10b and J11b are scrap then same is case with Russian jets and Indians too. By the way as per limited info both J10b and J11b are using AESA radars.

even SD10 arming them is also longer range version.

 

[Akasa]

In your dreams only, yes J10 B can only shoot down rafale in your dreams, the sensors and weaponry u talking about is worlds best........J 10 B doesn't stand a chance against rafale...........

1 – RBE2 / AESA – “Active Electronically Scanned Array” radar

The RAFALE is the first operational – and so far, the only – European combat aircraft to use an electronic scanning radar. Developed by THALES, the RBE2 radar has benefited from a massive research effort and from THALES’ unmatched know-how based on past experience. Compared to radars with conventional antennas, unprecedented levels of situational awareness are attained with earlier detection and tracking of multiple targets.

With its superior beam agility and its enormous computing power, the RBE2 offers outstanding performance that cannot be replicated by mechanical scanning radars.

In October 2012, the first RAFALE fighter equipped with an “Active Electronically Scanned Array” (AESA) RBE2 radar was delivered to the French MoD. The AESA provides a wide range of functions:

• All-aspect look-up and look-down detection and tracking of multiple air targets for close combat and long-range interception, in all weather and in severe jamming environments,

• Ability to track targets in, or out of the search domain, bringing the ultimate advantage in air combat,

• Real time generation of three-dimensional maps for terrain-following above uncharted terrain in blind conditions. TheRAFALE is the sole new generation combat aircraft to currently propose such a function,

• Real time generation of high resolution 2D ground maps for navigation updates and detection, identification and designation of ground targets,

• Detection and tracking of multiple naval targets.

The RBE2-AESA is fully compatible in terms of detection range with the upcoming long range METEOR air-to-air missile. The AESA offers an unprecedented growth-potential for the future.

In those situations where discretion becomes the single most important tactical factor, the RAFALE can rely on several other sensor systems:

2 – “Front Sector Optronics” – FSO

Developed by THALES, the “Front Sector Optronics” (FSO) system is fully integrated into the aircraft. Operating in the optronic wavelengths, it is immune to radar jamming and it provides covert long-range detection and identification, high resolution angular tracking and laser range-finding for air, sea and ground targets.

The FSO’s powerful TV sensor (cued by the RAFALE’sactive and passive sensors) is truly valuable to positively identify targets in situations where a visual contact is required by the rules of engagement.

3 – SPECTRA – internal Electronic Warfare suite

Jointly developed by THALES and MBDA, the SPECTRAinternal “Electronic Warfare” (EW) system is the cornerstone of the Rafale’s outstanding survivability against the latest airborne and ground threats.

It is fully integrated with other systems in the aircraft, and it provides a multi-spectral threat warning capability against hostile radars, missiles and lasers.

The SPECTRA system carries out reliable long-range detection, identification and localisation of threats, allowing the pilot to instantly select the most effective defensive measures based on combinations of radar jamming, infrared or radar decoying and evasive manoeuvres.

The angular localisation performance of the SPECTRA sensors makes it possible to accurately locate ground threats in order to avoid them, or to target them for destruction with precision guided munitions.

The outstanding capability of SPECTRA regarding airborne threat localisation, is one of the keys of the RAFALE’s superior situational awareness.

Also instrumental in SPECTRA‘s performance is a threat library that can be easily defined, integrated and updated on short notice by users in their own country, and in full autonomy.

SPECTRA now includes a new generation missile warning system that offers increased detection performance against the latest threats.

4 – Net-centric capability

The net-centric capability of the RAFALE hinges on its open architecture, its data fusion software and its compatibility with a variety of data links, which “plug” the RAFALE into the integrated battlespace.

A secure high-rate data link is provided to share data in combined air operations in real time with other aircraft in the formation, airborne and surface command and control centres, tactical air controllers or other friendly assets. The Link 16 data link is also available to those customers cleared to operate it.

The RAFALE’s interoperability, as part of a multinational operation, has been demonstrated on countless occasions, and Link 16 as well as non-NATO solutions can be provided to meet various customers’ requirements.

5 – DAMOCLES – Laser designation pod

The DAMOCLES laser designator pod designed byTHALES, brings full day and night laser designation capability to the RAFALE, with metric precision. It permits laser-guided weapons to be delivered at stand-off range and altitude.

The IR sensor of the DAMOCLES pod operates in the mid-wave infrared band, allowing it to retain its effectiveness in warm and / or humid conditions.

DAMOCLES is interoperable with all existing laser-guided weapons.

6 – AREOS – Recce pod – with real-time transmission

For both strategic and tactical reconnaissance missions, the French Armed Forces have adopted the new generationTHALES AREOS reconnaissance system for the RAFALE.

As demonstrated in Libya, Mali, the Central African Republic and Iraq, this high-tech, day and night equipment can be used in a wide range of scenarios, from stand-off distance at high altitude down to high speed and extremely low-level.

The outstanding performance of AREOS in stand-off reconnaissance makes it a sensor with a true pre-strategic value.


saber slayers

The J-10B also happens to sport an all-new AESA radar with 1152 T/R modules, integrated ECM/EW systems, sensor fusion, IRST, a plethora of externally-mounted pods, and other major system upgrades.

 

[cerberus]

The J-10B also happens to sport an all-new AESA radar with 1152 T/R modules, integrated ECM/EW systems, sensor fusion, IRST

So thats makes it Par with Rafale Main thing how Proved did Chinese AESA Is when it compared to Defense giant Firms Like Thales or Elta are what generation of radar its Actually is IF you put some details in comparison

 

[The SC]

In your dreams only, yes J10 B can only shoot down rafale in your dreams, the sensors and weaponry u talking about is worlds best........J 10 B doesn't stand a chance against rafale...........

1 – RBE2 / AESA – “Active Electronically Scanned Array” radar

The RAFALE is the first operational – and so far, the only – European combat aircraft to use an electronic scanning radar. Developed by THALES, the RBE2 radar has benefited from a massive research effort and from THALES’ unmatched know-how based on past experience. Compared to radars with conventional antennas, unprecedented levels of situational awareness are attained with earlier detection and tracking of multiple targets.

With its superior beam agility and its enormous computing power, the RBE2 offers outstanding performance that cannot be replicated by mechanical scanning radars.

In October 2012, the first RAFALE fighter equipped with an “Active Electronically Scanned Array” (AESA) RBE2 radar was delivered to the French MoD. The AESA provides a wide range of functions:

• All-aspect look-up and look-down detection and tracking of multiple air targets for close combat and long-range interception, in all weather and in severe jamming environments,

• Ability to track targets in, or out of the search domain, bringing the ultimate advantage in air combat,

• Real time generation of three-dimensional maps for terrain-following above uncharted terrain in blind conditions. TheRAFALE is the sole new generation combat aircraft to currently propose such a function,

• Real time generation of high resolution 2D ground maps for navigation updates and detection, identification and designation of ground targets,

• Detection and tracking of multiple naval targets.

The RBE2-AESA is fully compatible in terms of detection range with the upcoming long range METEOR air-to-air missile. The AESA offers an unprecedented growth-potential for the future.

In those situations where discretion becomes the single most important tactical factor, the RAFALE can rely on several other sensor systems:

2 – “Front Sector Optronics” – FSO

Developed by THALES, the “Front Sector Optronics” (FSO) system is fully integrated into the aircraft. Operating in the optronic wavelengths, it is immune to radar jamming and it provides covert long-range detection and identification, high resolution angular tracking and laser range-finding for air, sea and ground targets.

The FSO’s powerful TV sensor (cued by the RAFALE’sactive and passive sensors) is truly valuable to positively identify targets in situations where a visual contact is required by the rules of engagement.

3 – SPECTRA – internal Electronic Warfare suite

Jointly developed by THALES and MBDA, the SPECTRAinternal “Electronic Warfare” (EW) system is the cornerstone of the Rafale’s outstanding survivability against the latest airborne and ground threats.

It is fully integrated with other systems in the aircraft, and it provides a multi-spectral threat warning capability against hostile radars, missiles and lasers.

The SPECTRA system carries out reliable long-range detection, identification and localisation of threats, allowing the pilot to instantly select the most effective defensive measures based on combinations of radar jamming, infrared or radar decoying and evasive manoeuvres.

The angular localisation performance of the SPECTRA sensors makes it possible to accurately locate ground threats in order to avoid them, or to target them for destruction with precision guided munitions.

The outstanding capability of SPECTRA regarding airborne threat localisation, is one of the keys of the RAFALE’s superior situational awareness.

Also instrumental in SPECTRA‘s performance is a threat library that can be easily defined, integrated and updated on short notice by users in their own country, and in full autonomy.

SPECTRA now includes a new generation missile warning system that offers increased detection performance against the latest threats.

4 – Net-centric capability

The net-centric capability of the RAFALE hinges on its open architecture, its data fusion software and its compatibility with a variety of data links, which “plug” the RAFALE into the integrated battlespace.

A secure high-rate data link is provided to share data in combined air operations in real time with other aircraft in the formation, airborne and surface command and control centres, tactical air controllers or other friendly assets. The Link 16 data link is also available to those customers cleared to operate it.

The RAFALE’s interoperability, as part of a multinational operation, has been demonstrated on countless occasions, and Link 16 as well as non-NATO solutions can be provided to meet various customers’ requirements.

5 – DAMOCLES – Laser designation pod

The DAMOCLES laser designator pod designed byTHALES, brings full day and night laser designation capability to the RAFALE, with metric precision. It permits laser-guided weapons to be delivered at stand-off range and altitude.

The IR sensor of the DAMOCLES pod operates in the mid-wave infrared band, allowing it to retain its effectiveness in warm and / or humid conditions.

DAMOCLES is interoperable with all existing laser-guided weapons.

6 – AREOS – Recce pod – with real-time transmission

For both strategic and tactical reconnaissance missions, the French Armed Forces have adopted the new generationTHALES AREOS reconnaissance system for the RAFALE.

As demonstrated in Libya, Mali, the Central African Republic and Iraq, this high-tech, day and night equipment can be used in a wide range of scenarios, from stand-off distance at high altitude down to high speed and extremely low-level.

The outstanding performance of AREOS in stand-off reconnaissance makes it a sensor with a true pre-strategic value.


saber slayers

That is a Chinese statement, you can look it up and tell them it is in their dreams only...

"As demonstrated in Libya, Mali, the Central African Republic and Iraq"

 

[09ee97]

Budget aside, Which top fighter is available for purchase to Pakistan? Can we get our hands on Typhoon or Rafale? What about F35?

 

[cerberus]

That is a Chinese statement, you can look it up and tell them it is in their dreams only...

@SinoSoldier
Chinese defense forums have posted copies of the image above which claim to cite the J-20’s AESA T/R module count at 1,856, the J-16’s at 1,760, and the J-10B at 1,200 T/R modules. It is likely the J-10B is the first Chinese fighter aircraft to feature an AESA; J-10B units achieved initial operational capability (IOC) in October of 2014. The volume of the J-10s nose cone is not substantially different from that of the F-16 or the Israeli Lavi from which the J-10 is partially based. Therefore, if one were to assume China had reached parity with the United States in packaging technology, the 1,200 T/R module figure would be plausible but slightly high. For comparison, the APG-80 AESA for the F-16C/D Block 60 has 1,000 T/R modules (DSB, 2001). However, it is unlikely that China has been able to reach parity with the United States in terms of packaging technology on their first generation AESA design. Neither Russia nor Israel was able to field 1,000 T/R element arrays within their first generation fighter mounted AESAs for similar nose volumes as the F-16 with the Mig-35 and Israeli F-16 respectively.

Russia’s first fighter mounted AESA radar, the Zhuk-AE, contained 652 T/R modules and was unveiled in 2007. The Israeli ELM-2052 AESA radar, which has been marketed for both the F-16 and the FA-50 – a joint Korean Aerospace Industry and Lockheed Martin F-16 derivative, has roughly 512 T/R modules (Trimble, 2014). The only firm outside of the United States that was able to produce a 1,000 T/R element within one generation was the French avionics firm Thales with its RB2E radar (Avionics Today, 2009). While the relative technological maturity of Israeli, and Russian AESAs is not directly indicative of the relative technological maturity of China’s packaging technology, it is an indicator that the first generation AESA produced by China is likely not on par with the US which is generally recognized as having the most technological mature T/R packaging technology

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Well the best thing for PAF is to get just one Rafale. Even it they have to get it for $2 Billion. The Indian's on this forum would get a nice sleep after that.

 

[09ee97]

Well the best thing for PAF is to get just one Rafale. Even it they have to get it for $2 Billion. The Indian's on this forum would get a nice sleep after that.

What are the odds of pulling this one off? I don't really expect French to provide us the very aircraft fighter our neighbors have.

 

[deckingraj]

Well the best thing for PAF is to get just one Rafale. Even it they have to get it for $2 Billion. The Indian's on this forum would get a nice sleep after that.

what ??

 

[Akasa]

@SinoSoldier
Chinese defense forums have posted copies of the image above which claim to cite the J-20’s AESA T/R module count at 1,856, the J-16’s at 1,760, and the J-10B at 1,200 T/R modules. It is likely the J-10B is the first Chinese fighter aircraft to feature an AESA; J-10B units achieved initial operational capability (IOC) in October of 2014. The volume of the J-10s nose cone is not substantially different from that of the F-16 or the Israeli Lavi from which the J-10 is partially based. Therefore, if one were to assume China had reached parity with the United States in packaging technology, the 1,200 T/R module figure would be plausible but slightly high. For comparison, the APG-80 AESA for the F-16C/D Block 60 has 1,000 T/R modules (DSB, 2001). However, it is unlikely that China has been able to reach parity with the United States in terms of packaging technology on their first generation AESA design. Neither Russia nor Israel was able to field 1,000 T/R element arrays within their first generation fighter mounted AESAs for similar nose volumes as the F-16 with the Mig-35 and Israeli F-16 respectively.

Russia’s first fighter mounted AESA radar, the Zhuk-AE, contained 652 T/R modules and was unveiled in 2007. The Israeli ELM-2052 AESA radar, which has been marketed for both the F-16 and the FA-50 – a joint Korean Aerospace Industry and Lockheed Martin F-16 derivative, has roughly 512 T/R modules (Trimble, 2014). The only firm outside of the United States that was able to produce a 1,000 T/R element within one generation was the French avionics firm Thales with its RB2E radar (Avionics Today, 2009). While the relative technological maturity of Israeli, and Russian AESAs is not directly indicative of the relative technological maturity of China’s packaging technology, it is an indicator that the first generation AESA produced by China is likely not on par with the US which is generally recognized as having the most technological mature T/R packaging technology

Actually, its radar is not their first-generation active phased array radar; they have been producing aerial active phased array radars since the induction of their AWACS in 2003, far longer than the Russians have been doing likewise.

As for the miniaturization of the T/R modules, who are we to say whether they are able to achieve dense packing or not? Nobody outside the industry knows just how far they've come in packing designs, so comparing them to the United States or whatnot isn't going to help shed light on the veracity of their claims.

Anyways, the 1152-module count originated from a research paper detailing the radar itself:

 

[abtank10]

The J-10B also happens to sport an all-new AESA radar with 1152 T/R modules, integrated ECM/EW systems, sensor fusion, IRST, a plethora of externally-mounted pods, and other major system upgrades.

That will play the most important part......can u please state how does it perform against the french aesa with other supporting software's......even if one of the above fails.....it would be disastrous.... It can happen to any plane.....thanks in advance...

 

[Last Samuri]

Pakistanis are politically or financially severly restricted with their future fighter options.

Financially they cannot buy expensive late fourth generation in fighters from the Europeans in suitable nos period. That rules out all three Gripen Rafale & Typhoon.

Politically the Russians will not sell them fighters for fear of completely losing their huge market in india and the political support and friendship of a nation whose GDP has now exceeded their own.

Usa fighters are an option but riddled with strings attached and the ever increasing friendship and influence of indo usa relations last decade or so as the Pakistanis looking on anxiously. In short USA will not back pakistan or indeed india in a war. They most likely sanction both nations to help bring cease fire. This is not 1971 anymore

That leaves the chinease .

J10B can you agree a financial soft loan is any benefit since the chinease weap;ons are already available on thunders.

The fifth generation fighters are a decade away. and financially not viable to buy or more operate by a tiny PAF budget.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

What are the odds of pulling this one off? I don't really expect French to provide us the very aircraft fighter our neighbors have.

Money buys everything

 

[Akasa]

That will play the most important part......can u please state how does it perform against the french aesa with other supporting software's......even if one of the above fails.....it would be disastrous.... It can happen to any plane.....thanks in advance...

I don't know. I don't think anybody without unfettered access to either systems would be able to answer that question. Even if one did, the platform on which the radar is mounted is equally important in deciding how well the duo performs.