Operation Swift Retort Memorial at PAF base Sargodha

[SQ8]

Windy Bhai.
At the end of the day without solid proof presented to the people even Haseeb's statement remains just that. We believe him but the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is in someone's tummy.
A

Unless there is a picture of the wreckage on the ground or through satellite, or testimony from inside India; it may be a strong claim but a claim nonetheless
.

 

[Riz]

Unless there is a picture of the wreckage on the ground or through satellite, or testimony from inside India; it may be a strong claim but a claim nonetheless
.

Last SU-30mki accident is proof sir...

 

[Windjammer]

Unless there is a picture of the wreckage on the ground or through satellite, or testimony from inside India; it may be a strong claim but a claim nonetheless
.

The word is, there is the reason the deserving hunter was eventually disclosed taking the limelight away from the home product.

Windy Bhai.
At the end of the day without solid proof presented to the people even Haseeb's statement remains just that. We believe him but the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is in someone's tummy.
A

 

[Bratva]

Are you going to doubt Air Marshal Haseeb Piracha who said with the aircheifs consent on live television that Su30 was brought down?

A story from past.

A month after Rutskoy’s shootdown, a formation of twelve Soviet MiG-23s—eight loaded with bombs, and four carrying R-24 air-to-air missiles, zipped into Pakistani airspace near the Kunar valley at 32,000 feet—probably seeking to lure PAF F-16s into an ambush.

Obligingly, two F-16s raced towards the swing-wing fighters at only 11,000 feet. However, the Soviet radars failed to detect the lower-flying F-16s amidst the ground clutter. A Sidewinder fired at a steep angle by Squadron Leader Khalid Mahmood managed to riddle one MiG-23 with shrapnel, which limped back home for a crash landing. Two MiGs peeled away to engage the F-16s in a dogfight. But while Pakistani pilots claimed two MiG-23 kills, Soviet records show no additional aircraft were lost.


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/pakistan’s-f-16s-battled-soviet-jets—and-shot-down-future-vice-president-russia-47717



After the mission, the Base authorities as well as squadron pilots saw the video repeatedly. Everyone was convinced that Khalid had achieved the kills; however, the wreckage was not found and nothing was heard on the subject for a few days. Meanwhile, a team of American experts analysed the recording and commented that in all probability, missiles had hit the target. Later, Inspector General Frontier Corps (IGFC) visited the squadron about seven weeks later. Since the combat area fell under his jurisdiction, he had organized the search and recovery of the wreckage. The search party had reported that one aircraft had fallen on the Pakistani side of the border while the second debris had drifted into the territory controlled by the Afghan troops. The Afghan forces had mined the area to curb Mujahideen movements; therefore, the recovery of the wreckage was not possible. As explosions above 30,000 feet caused the wreckage to be scattered over a large area, and due to the risk of mine explosions, only one missile pylon of the downed enemy aircraft was recovered and presented to the IGFC by the search party.


https://historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19508


or two F-16 pilots there remained nothing else but to return back to their base. According to Pakistani reports, this warning of two Soviet aircraft behind Mahmood and Hussain was caused by a radar controller, Sqn.Ldr. Irfan-ul-Haq, misinterpreting a clutter on his scope. In fact Lt.Col. Sergey Bulin and Maj. N. Golisienko were closing from that side, however, their Sapheer-23ML radars were not able to pick-up the lower flying F-16s (probably due to a ground clutter), thus denying them a chance to attack with R-24 missiles. Subsequently they turned towards the West and joined the rest of the formation. Privalov’s MiG-23MLD „55“ managed it back to Bagram (albeit it overshoot the runway and was badly damaged when the nose-leg collapsed), just like Petkov, whose aircraft was not damaged at all.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sovi...an-air-force-during-soviet-afghan-war.288653/

 

[Telescopic Sight]

My dear sir, i don't see the IAF coming outright to deny PAF claim that it shot down an Indian SU-30 MKI- from IAF's 221 Squadron 'Valiants' based in Halwara, Punjab with call sign ''Avenger''.

Google is your friend, so is Wikipedia:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ighter-jets/story-otShk0em4V3bSrI72A3paO.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ks-dogfight/articleshow/68275863.cms?from=mdr

https://www.deccanherald.com/national/iaf-rejects-pak-claims-says-721745.html


Ok, carry on.

 

[loanranger]

no offence to anyone but its a claim

yes claim is from official authority and not from an enthusiast or blogger
still

only a claim

untill backed by proof that indian airforce cant deny

i belive the claim

when i see the proof i will "know" its a fact

doubting and believing will be irrelevant

It will remain a fairytale for the rest of our lives if no proof is released or leaked.

A story from past.

A month after Rutskoy’s shootdown, a formation of twelve Soviet MiG-23s—eight loaded with bombs, and four carrying R-24 air-to-air missiles, zipped into Pakistani airspace near the Kunar valley at 32,000 feet—probably seeking to lure PAF F-16s into an ambush.

Obligingly, two F-16s raced towards the swing-wing fighters at only 11,000 feet. However, the Soviet radars failed to detect the lower-flying F-16s amidst the ground clutter. A Sidewinder fired at a steep angle by Squadron Leader Khalid Mahmood managed to riddle one MiG-23 with shrapnel, which limped back home for a crash landing. Two MiGs peeled away to engage the F-16s in a dogfight. But while Pakistani pilots claimed two MiG-23 kills, Soviet records show no additional aircraft were lost.


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/pakistan’s-f-16s-battled-soviet-jets—and-shot-down-future-vice-president-russia-47717



After the mission, the Base authorities as well as squadron pilots saw the video repeatedly. Everyone was convinced that Khalid had achieved the kills; however, the wreckage was not found and nothing was heard on the subject for a few days. Meanwhile, a team of American experts analysed the recording and commented that in all probability, missiles had hit the target. Later, Inspector General Frontier Corps (IGFC) visited the squadron about seven weeks later. Since the combat area fell under his jurisdiction, he had organized the search and recovery of the wreckage. The search party had reported that one aircraft had fallen on the Pakistani side of the border while the second debris had drifted into the territory controlled by the Afghan troops. The Afghan forces had mined the area to curb Mujahideen movements; therefore, the recovery of the wreckage was not possible. As explosions above 30,000 feet caused the wreckage to be scattered over a large area, and due to the risk of mine explosions, only one missile pylon of the downed enemy aircraft was recovered and presented to the IGFC by the search party.


https://historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19508


or two F-16 pilots there remained nothing else but to return back to their base. According to Pakistani reports, this warning of two Soviet aircraft behind Mahmood and Hussain was caused by a radar controller, Sqn.Ldr. Irfan-ul-Haq, misinterpreting a clutter on his scope. In fact Lt.Col. Sergey Bulin and Maj. N. Golisienko were closing from that side, however, their Sapheer-23ML radars were not able to pick-up the lower flying F-16s (probably due to a ground clutter), thus denying them a chance to attack with R-24 missiles. Subsequently they turned towards the West and joined the rest of the formation. Privalov’s MiG-23MLD „55“ managed it back to Bagram (albeit it overshoot the runway and was badly damaged when the nose-leg collapsed), just like Petkov, whose aircraft was not damaged at all.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/sovi...an-air-force-during-soviet-afghan-war.288653/

What I can imply from this is that the Su 30 may have been hit and thus damaged yet somehow managed to R.T.B .
Proof may never be seen in our lives out in the open just another addition to a constellation of Pakistans greatest conspiracies. Zia ul Haq, Liaqat Ali khan,Benazir, OBL.....Su30Mki etc

 

[Myth_buster_1]

It will remain a fairytale for the rest of our lives if no proof is released or leaked.


What I can imply from this is that the Su 30 may have been hit and thus damaged yet somehow managed to R.T.B .
Proof may never be seen in our lives out in the open just another addition to a constellation of Pakistans greatest conspiracies. Zia ul Haq, Liaqat Ali khan,Benazir, OBL.....Su30Mki etc

two parachutes were spotted descending towards IOK. the wreckage may have been pulverized by the time it hit the ground.

 

[loanranger]

two parachutes were spotted descending towards IOK. the wreckage may have been pulverized by the time it hit the ground.

Possible. However, frustratingly even the chair has a parachute seperate from the pilot and it is called a drogue parachute to stabalize the ejection seat. People could have been mistaking that as a pilot. There are so many possibilities. Only solid proof can single out which one it really was on that glorious day for PAF.

 

[Windjammer]

Google is your friend, so is Wikipedia:

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ighter-jets/story-otShk0em4V3bSrI72A3paO.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ks-dogfight/articleshow/68275863.cms?from=mdr

https://www.deccanherald.com/national/iaf-rejects-pak-claims-says-721745.html


Ok, carry on.

Time surely doesn't stand still for either, has the IAF denied since PAF released the SU-30 unit and other details just earlier this month.
India trashes Pakistan's claim of downing IAF's Sukhoi jet during last week's dogfight

PTI|
Mar 05, 2019, 10.15 PM IST

IAF rejects Pak claims, says all Su-30 returned Kalyan Ray, DH News Service, New Delhi, MAR 06 2019,
00:16AM IST UPDATED: MAR 06 2019, 16:10PM IST

IAF junks Pakistan’s claim of shooting down Sukhoi-30 fighter jets

INDIA Updated: Mar 05, 2019 22:50 IST

 

[Telescopic Sight]

Time surely doesn't stand still for either, has the IAF denied since PAF released the SU-30 unit and other details just earlier this month.
India trashes Pakistan's claim of downing IAF's Sukhoi jet during last week's dogfight

PTI|
Mar 05, 2019, 10.15 PM IST

IAF rejects Pak claims, says all Su-30 returned Kalyan Ray, DH News Service, New Delhi, MAR 06 2019,
00:16AM IST UPDATED: MAR 06 2019, 16:10PM IST

IAF junks Pakistan’s claim of shooting down Sukhoi-30 fighter jets

INDIA Updated: Mar 05, 2019 22:50 IST

Firstly, your post makes ZERO sense. WHAT are you saying man?

Secondly, every detail that Pakistanis know about the Sukhoi involved in this clash has come from Day One from various Indian sources.


I myself saw this on Sameer Joshi's Twitter feed months ago where he stated that Avenger One is from the 221 Squadron.

Avenger One is the reason that the F-16s showed tail and fled the fight after wasting 5 AMRAAMS at a million $ a pop.

PAF's claims are a pale echo of the IAF's F-16 claim. If you find this Sukhoi claim credible based on :
1] multiple parachutes seen
2] radar signatures
3] radio intercepts
4] eye witness reports

then sorry for you , because IAF had used these points months before the recent PAF TV special.

Feel free to chase your tail in circles. I've made my point.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Firstly, your post makes ZERO sense. WHAT are you saying man?

Secondly, every detail that Pakistanis know about the Sukhoi involved in this clash has come from Day One from various Indian sources.


I myself saw this on Sameer Joshi's Twitter feed months ago where he stated that Avenger One is from the 221 Squadron.

Avenger One is the reason that the F-16s showed tail and fled the fight after wasting 5 AMRAAMS at a million $ a pop.

PAF's claims are a pale echo of the IAF's F-16 claim. If you find this Sukhoi claim credible based on :
1] multiple parachutes seen
2] radar signatures
3] radio intercepts
4] eye witness reports

then sorry for you , because IAF had used these points months before the recent PAF TV special.

Feel free to chase your tail in circles. I've made my point.

Whatever you thinks but the world not buying your narrative, you humiliated at world level @Telescopic Sight

 

[Ultima Thule]

Firstly, your post makes ZERO sense. WHAT are you saying man?

Secondly, every detail that Pakistanis know about the Sukhoi involved in this clash has come from Day One from various Indian sources.


I myself saw this on Sameer Joshi's Twitter feed months ago where he stated that Avenger One is from the 221 Squadron.

Avenger One is the reason that the F-16s showed tail and fled the fight after wasting 5 AMRAAMS at a million $ a pop.

PAF's claims are a pale echo of the IAF's F-16 claim. If you find this Sukhoi claim credible based on :
1] multiple parachutes seen
2] radar signatures
3] radio intercepts
4] eye witness reports

then sorry for you , because IAF had used these points months before the recent PAF TV special.

Feel free to chase your tail in circles. I've made my point.

1] in your area (IOK) (this is no solid proof) its might be MKI parachutes, and if our F-16 was being shot down in Pakistan (AJK) how is this possible video and clips hadn't viral on Youtube/Twitter just like your Bison
2] face saving move by your mighty IAF, i am software developer/graphic designer in USA i will make this kind of image better then IAF, and this image is not a solid proof for downing our F-16, there are other possibilities too such as hiding behind the mountains for lose of signals, your radar jammed by PAF ECM aircraft (Falcon DA 20) etc etc and last Pentagon confirmed No PAF F-16 went missing
3]can easily fake manufacture by IAF/ your DOD
4] what eye witness report you're talking, you pathetic troll

You claim our F-16 was shot down by Abhi Bison (within visual range (R-73)) and its technically impossible, Mig-21 such a small dia air intake radar that its radar range barely reach BVR range ( we have same range for our F-7 radar range of grifo-7 (radar range of only 55 km)) so we assume same for your Bison how its possible that our F-16 had AMRAAM in their armament and want a fight within the visual range with you Mig-21 Bison and all AAMs fell with your Bison at crash site, so think logically, you pathetic troll @Telescopic Sight

 

[Myth_buster_1]

PAF's claims are a pale echo of the IAF's F-16 claim. If you find this Sukhoi claim credible based on :
1] multiple parachutes seen
2] radar signatures
3] radio intercepts
4] eye witness reports

1) Since 2 R-77 recovered 1 R-73 with burnt motor attached to pylon recovered and 1 R-73 with 11 out of 13 serial number ( can be verified by plugging number in IAF @$$) recovered meaning AbhiNandos did not fire any missile and any parachutes seen on 27th feb belongs to IAF. Su-30 pilots descended to IOK.
2) No such thing exist other then MS paint job
3) IAF has yet to provide such radio intercepts like it attempted to do with radar images.

Btw janab production videos does not count. like...

ACCORDING TO SOURCES.....
WE HAVE INTERCEPTED PAF AND AATANKWADI communication!!!
AATANKWADI : Janab, did you shot down kafir IAF fighters?
PAF control tower: JANAAB!!! WE HAVE 20 F-16 NEAR LOC AND ONE IAF MIG-21 FLOWN BY FEARLESS IAF PILOT IS CHASING AWAY OUR ENTIRE F-16 FLEET!!!!!! OUR PAF PILOTS NEED TO BE TRAINED BY AFGHANISTAN AIR FORCE WHICH ITSELF IS TRAINED BY IAF!!!!!

4) eye witness reports? if we go by local villagers account who captured abhi then are you suggesting that the 'dosra banda udhar hai' is a PAF pilot who conveniently landed just within few steps away from abhi? if indeed it was paf pilot then why did they not mention 'tesra banda'??
Most likely they spotted abhi-nandos detached parachute and claimed it was another pilot! Do note Pakistani soldiers SHOWED NO INTEREST in this dosra banda because they know the parachute belongs to abhi!!

 

[Telescopic Sight]

1) Since 2 R-77 recovered 1 R-73 with burnt motor attached to pylon recovered and 1 R-73 with 11 out of 13 serial number ( can be verified by plugging number in IAF @$$) recovered meaning AbhiNandos did not fire any missile and any parachutes seen on 27th feb belongs to IAF. Su-30 pilots descended to IOK.
2) No such thing exist other then MS paint job
3) IAF has yet to provide such radio intercepts like it attempted to do with radar images.

Firstly , I appreciate your response. Clearly you are above the age of 15 , something that can't be stated confidently about most members here.

Literally everything you write above is true for the PAF claim.
1) Parachutes seen falling to earth belong to the PAF F16
2) PAF claims of radar images of MKI shootdown have not been seen by anyone. Correct me if I am wrong.
3) PAF has also NOT provided anyone radio intercepts .

So what makes one claim stronger than the other?

If anything, IAF has given its' claims and it's evidence within days. PAF took 7 months to release their TV program. Why ? Please think , don't be a blind PAF fan.

Oh, just to clarify : I will acknowledge any F16 kill after concrete evidence is located. I am in the 'unsure' category now. So please don't confuse me with an IndianAmerican version of the blind fanboy lot found here.[/QUOTE]

They have their flight physicals but maintaining currency is not that common.

This is absolutely true of past IAF chiefs and perhaps recent PAF chiefs.

More importantly, staying current on aircraft with the intent to joyride for points is of little use and it is foolish to think it means anything.
A strategic mind and insight into operations is required as the leader, you don’t need to take your shot down pilot into the air for morale boosting as a required line on your resume then.
Id rather have a non-flying chief capable of executing decisions leading to kill ratios of 20:1 instead of a tummied fellow taking out someone who was an involuntary tourist into the air.

Well, truthfully I agree.

But I will also look forward to you sharing this very post the next time it is mentioned about how PAF Chiefs traditionally lead some annual flypast by flying their own jets !

And I request you to post this opinion each time a video clip is released showing the current PAF chief in strategic camera angles and further edited skilfully to create the impression that he is flying the F16 himself.

I believe that last 3 PAF chiefs have done exactly this. I even remember some journo asking ACM Dhanoa about this last such clip and he mocked it by saying " back seat pilot' or something similar.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Firstly , I appreciate your response. Clearly you are above the age of 15 , something that can't be stated confidently about most members here.

Literally everything you write above is true for the PAF claim.
1) Parachutes seen falling to earth belong to the PAF F16
2) PAF claims of radar images of MKI shootdown have not been seen by anyone. Correct me if I am wrong.
3) PAF has also NOT provided anyone radio intercepts .

So what makes one claim stronger than the other?

If anything, IAF has given its' claims and it's evidence within days. PAF took 7 months to release their TV program. Why ? Please think , don't be a blind PAF fan.

1] what the proof these parachutes were PAF's F-16,had those parachutes has a Mark or something
2]PAF doesn't any radar image of downed MKI unlike your mighty vedic IAF when pentagon confirmed that no PAF F-16 was missing
3] @Myth_buster_1 is talking about your (Indian) radio intercept, there is nothing about shot down of PAF F-16 in this radio intercept

And don't troll IAF didn't provide a single solid proofs of downing of F-16 but after 3 months and after the confirmation from Pentagon that no F-16 went missing on 27 feb Air battle @Telescopic Sight @waz @The Eagle @Horus please control this Indian false flagger named @Telescopic Sight which always twisted the real facts senselessly and thanks
@