'Oldest' Koran fragments found in Birmingham University

[Musafir117]

England still a lot come up the treasure they loot from all over the world.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

"THEIR" handiwork and pass it off as the Quran being changed....I would say oh o...

"The verses are incomplete, and believed to have been an aide memoire for an imam who already knew the Qur’an by heart, but the text is very close to the accepted authorised version."
from the guardian

That only determines the age of the manuscript, not its content.

This was the first thought came to my mind too.

 

[Spring Onion]

That only determines the age of the manuscript, not its content.

I cant comment on that as i dont have expertise here in this regard but i just commented on basis of claim by this Prof Thomas which says

"These portions must have been in a form that is very close to the form of the Koran read today, supporting the view that the text has undergone little or no alteration and that it can be dated to a point very close to the time it was believed to be revealed."

 

[Dubious]

The news has quoted the experts who ran carbon test to determined the status of the script. I am saying on the basis of this expert opinion

The age also falls in a period of time not exact date or something..

The status of the script would ONLY be determined based on comparison methods- Comparing writing (which the article explained about but not the content....)

This was the first thought came to my mind too.

But there are older scripts too and if anything is deliberaty made up here it would be exposed

Yes and no...Depends on who will take the opposition side...Some bloody Mullah who doesnt know his ABC would go haram all over without explanation....While those who know the facts could put this forward IF the content doesnt match the Quran now (where people will be quick to pounce on and say that it wasnt preserved right or people amended it and so on)...However, if it matches the Quran now....then it would just back up the claim that it is well preserved....

Lets wait and watch

 

[VCheng]

"The verses are incomplete, and believed to have been an aide memoire for an imam who already knew the Qur’an by heart, but the text is very close to the accepted authorised version."
from the guardian

I cant comment on that as i dont have expertise here in this regard but i just commented on basis of claim by this Prof Thomas which says

"These portions must have been in a form that is very close to the form of the Koran read today, supporting the view that the text has undergone little or no alteration and that it can be dated to a point very close to the time it was believed to be revealed."

Of course, very close it may be, but very close is not identical. That alone may be a major issue for some, but not most.

 

[Dubious]

Most religious people dont believe in radio carbon dating when paleontologist use it to prove evolution. I wonder that those muslims will believe in this claim or not.

How old are you ? What a stupid thing to say...

1) Carbon dating only gives you a time frame nothing else...Even if some Arab wrote a novel on goat skin in that era it will put it in that era...but wont make it a Quran....

2) By the Muslims believing or not wont change what it is....However, if it is one of the "wrong copies of that era" which has already been mentioned...Then no matter how hard it is to believe, the truth will remain it is a wrong copy....No amount of crying would change that...

3) Carbon dating never proved EVOLUTION....it proved bones existed in a certain era...Not sure what they teach you in india...a little disturbing if they have been teaching you that carbon dating proved evolution which is not taught in ANY OTHER decent uni on the planet...

"The verses are incomplete, and believed to have been an aide memoire for an imam who already knew the Qur’an by heart, but the text is very close to the accepted authorised version."
from the guardian

Ahh me browsing coz I have to go to the field every 2 hrs cant even read 1 thread decently

Thanks for pointing it out

Of course, very close it may be, but very close is not identical. That alone may be a major issue for some, but not most.

Very close could have many explanations but when you read the whole sentence then you just need to stop trolling:

"These portions must have been in a form that is very close to the form of the Koran read today, supporting the view that the text has undergone little or no alteration and that it can be dated to a point very close to the time it was believed to be revealed."

And any person with a decent understanding of the history of revelations of the Quran can tell you that some alterations WERE added these we call PUNCTUATION so that people can read in the same way as the Quresh tribe so as not to alter the "meaning"...

The quran has a defined grammar which MOST Arabs know of when to pause and when not to combine (which changes the meanings)....When to stretch and when not to stretch (also may change the meaning) which is from the deep part of the throat and which is not - 1 can make a heart into a dog from wrong pronunciation hence to enable people to read in the same manner the punctuation were added which are not found in many Quran from the Arab lands coz the Arabs know the rules but non Arabs usually dont know and follow these to aid them...

 

[Spring Onion]

Most religious people dont believe in radio carbon dating when paleontologist use it to prove evolution. I wonder that those muslims will believe in this claim or not.

Most religious people dont believe in radio carbon dating when paleontologist use it to prove evolution. I wonder that those muslims will believe in this claim or not.

is there no difference between usage of radiocarbon on living things and on a paper?

 

[Solomon2]

Two things are proven here by this discovery
1. that text in Quran is indeed not altered
2. the age of Islam

They've only tested the parchment so far. To tell when this was written they have to test the ink next. The sample preparation will be more difficult and time-consuming (and thus expensive).

In case you didn't notice, the researchers already qualified their results when they pointed out the text was "surprisingly legible". The parchment could, after all, be hundreds of years old before ink actually touched it.

 

[VCheng]

They've only tested the parchment so far. To tell when this was written they have to test the ink next. The sample preparation will be more difficult and time-consuming (and thus expensive).

In case you didn't notice, the researchers already qualified their results when they pointed out the text was "surprisingly legible". The parchment could, after all, be hundreds of years old before ink actually touched it.

There are several other old manuscripts of the Quran recovered from Sana'a that are being studied:

Sana'a manuscript - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dubious]

I know that its very difficult to digest for idiot religious fanatics like you who believe whatever you learn in madrassa. Instead of attacking personally, why dont you search a bit on google?

Look who is talking let me show you what an indian person talks like:

idiot religious fanatics

Instead of attacking personally

Contradicting much?

2ndly, do show me your google research from vedic times where carbon dating PROVED evolution! go ahead

 

[Solomon2]

There are several other old manuscripts of the Quran recovered from Sana'a that are being studied:Sana'a manuscript - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the Sana'a manuscript researchers explicitly assumed that the date of the oldest writing was the same as the date of the parchment: link.

Dating ink off of its parchment may be beyond the current state-of-the-art, I don't know....

 

[VCheng]

In the Sana'a manuscript researchers explicitly assumed that the date of the oldest writing was the same as the date of the parchment: link.

Dating ink off of its parchment may be beyond the current state-of-the-art, I don't know....

The study of those manuscripts is still continuing.

 

[Azizam]

England still a lot come up the treasure they loot from all over the world.

Or it would have been buried or burnt by the wonderful examples of human beings in the Middle East like ISIS. At least in Britain, it's preserved.

 

[Nefarious]

Not sure about the science but this is awesome.

 

[Kesang]

Look who is talking let me show you what an indian person talks like:



Contradicting much?

2ndly, do show me your google research from vedic times where carbon dating PROVED evolution! go ahead

Typical religious fanatics. You can find millions of sites if you want to learn but you chooses to be a blind.

.Paleontology seeks to map out how life evolved across geologic time. A substantial hurdle is the difficulty of working out fossil ages.[\QUOTE]
Carbon Dating and Estimating Fossil Age

please stop embarrassing yourself. Do bit research before you post something. cheez, there are millions of sites on google but I know that either you are too lazy or just don't want to read something which contrary of what you learn in madrassa. So

Actionbioscience | Accuracy of Fossils and Dating Methods
But again, google is your friend. Please use it if you have problem with these sources.