Officially becoming a secular liberal person

[SQ8]

in islam, hindus and budhists are considered pagans because they are idol worshippers

How did we come to this conclusion about Hindus and Buddhists, and not about Christians who have the figure of Christ on the stake and kneel before him?

have u gone crazy??
at least 50-60 percent of hindus are non veg in india

You clearly missed his point. Which is why it is ALWAYS recommended to read everything slowly and with attention regardless of how you feel about the member.

 

[he-man]

How did we come to this conclusion about Hindus and Buddhists, and not about Christians who have the figure of Christ on the stake and kneel before him?


You clearly missed his point. Which is why it is ALWAYS recommended to read everything slowly and with attention regardless of how you feel about the member.

oh,,,i was fighting someone on bollywood movies...............guess it became a little melodramatic here due to bollywood effect

 

[Bang Galore]

How many Secular countries have Muslims as Head of the State ?

I would assume that Turkey qualifies, Bangladesh qualifies, you are confusing different things.. Chances of a Muslim becoming the U.S. president are remote but that's true of Sikhs, Hindus, Parsees etc. Same in India as in many countries of Europe. The key is that there is no constitutional bar for people of the Islamic faith to run for the office. The rest, in democracies, has to be left to the electorate.

Now name 1 secular country where a Muslim is a leader... you see how your ideas can work both ways

 

[Multani]

You have a point. But you are not addressing the central issue. There are areas where Quran, Hadith, and practices of elders (Sahaba and / or Ahl-Bait) are not going to provide a guideline. That is where Aql is used. Sunnis just call it Qiyas (among other terms). The central question in fiqh is the intention of The Law-giver (Allah). Qiyas is just an attempt to answer the question "What I should do in this situation". To me that is same as Aql. I have done that on occasion for my self (and I am no Alim), when I could not find how I should act from my limited knowledge.

So, this is not a specifically Shi'i concept. It is based on Hadith of (I think) Hazrat Muaz bin Jabal.

very nice answer. Ma sha Allah.

nice to see someone prudent about Islam an its sciences, and spirituality, on PDF. I hope other Pakistanis learn from your kindself.

Verily, We did send down the Taurat (Torah) [to Musa (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah's Will, judged for the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [too judged for the Jews by the Taurat (Torah) after those Prophets], for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's Book, and they were witnesses thereto. Therefore fear not men but fear Me (O Jews) and sell not My Verses for a miserable price. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the Kafirun (i.e. disbelievers - of a lesser degree as they do not act on Allah's Laws). @qamar1990

zarvan bhai, please learn from the brother @Chak Bamu

you will benefit from him

 

[Hyperion]

No Palestinian advice was solicited, religious or otherwise.

OP, shariah has a definiiton ...=Islamic Law

Just want to point out, don't let overseas affairs dictate your personal life. If you prefer secular ideals in many cases, that's good, so does Islam. Although not everything is a secular lifestyle. If you're that way since it's what you reached out for and came adapted to. Good for you.

Just be careful from overseas affairs since everything isn't going right there, people start to lose faith and hope. Be what you want for yourself. At one time there was only one person in all of Arabia who was trying to be close to God and he had the most faith even in such a state.

 

[SQ8]

eyond confused.
All this while, various Hindutvavadi storm-troopers have been accusing me/us/Indian secularists of sucking up to Islam.
Now I'm told I should be abusing Islam inste

ad.
Would someone read the script and tell

Now this is getting beyond confused.

All this while, various Hindutvavadi storm-troopers have been accusing me/us/Indian secularists of sucking up to Islam.

Now I'm told I should be abusing Islam instead.

Would someone read the script and tell me my real lines?



That is completely insane. I can't believe what I'm reading.

Which script do you want. A grade or a B grade movie?

 

[Falcon29]

No Palestinian advice was solicited, religious or otherwise.

I love you too.

 

[Multani]

Many Sunni scholars are into Taqleed, so.....

But I learned basics of fiqh from Professor Dr. Mukhtar Al-Maghraoui, he has a PhD in Astrophysics, taught in renowned US universities, and his elders from both sides (mother and father) are Sufi Shuyukh of two different orders. His lectures opened up my mind. His expertise includes treatment of fiqh among various sects. That is why I do not see much point in trivial differences. Ultimately fiqh is about art of life; how to live. Any one who strives with earnestness gets my vote - even if I do not agree in details.

I have personally met Mokhtar Maghroui, the Algerian gentleman, in North America, a couple of times, and attended many of his lectures. He had to come to Canada to escape purge in the US. I have also met his business partner, Ninowy, and their Madina Institute in Atlanta.

Mokhtar Maghroui has changed over the past 7 years. His version of Sufism was more of an ikhwani background. He had typical wahabi beliefs like insulting Imam Hasan Basri RA and denying his spiritual inheritance of Moula Ali AS. But, seeing the fervour against wahabism in the US, and the market for Sufism, he has changed camps.

 

[he-man]

what was once islam's biggest strength has become its biggest weakness...........................

 

[Hyperion]

Of course you do...... your future conqueror!

I love you too.

 

[Falcon29]

Of course you do...... your future conqueror!

I single handedly defeated NATO, you won't even have a chance.

 

[Contrarian]

In conclusion then(or rather not), the idea of a non-muslim ruling a Muslim state has less to do with Sharia, and more to do with Human nature. India would form a large "I object" to this theory with the previous government with a Sikh PM, but the 2014 elections and the resounding behaviour of the largest religious community seems to belie that and support that facet of human nature: that you will always look for someone that represents your best interests from your own kin.

Disclaimer: I may be wrong in my opinion, but then my opinion is open to educated corrections and not copy paste rhetoric.

I dont have the energy right now to discuss the rest of the your post which would require me to fully apply my mind.

Here is a simple part though that I can discuss easily.
The fact is that a religious community does not need its own person to rule them is evident throughout India. But proving that does not mean that for a 100 years continuously some non-Hindu should run India.

Its simple, no one had an issue with MMS being a Sikh. The only reason he was voted out is because he has failed to run this country, rather run it aground.
People dont complain that Sonia Gandhi is a Christian. They complain that she is western and a foreigner whose loyalties dont lie with India.

If you think that Modi's election means Hindus are electing their kin to the PM post, then you could not be more wrong. The majority of the people voted for him because he promised 'ache din' with jobs, wages, faster GDP growth(its become like a drug to the people, cant live without it), good governance, less corruption.

Sure some vote for Hindutva, but they are always a fringe element or in minority.
Why else would BJP have lost the election in 2004 or 2009 if all the Hindus were just bent on voting for Hindutva?


Otherwise even Rahul Gandhi is a Hindu or Kejriwal.

The fact was that of the current set of leaders, Modi was by far the most competent leader. That is why people voted for him.

Or have you ever heard any Indian complain as to why Indian Army Chief is more often than not a Sikh?
Or have you ever heard an Indian complain that ex President Abdul Kalam was a Muslim? He is almost worshipped here as one of the greatest Indians ever and the best President India has ever had.

The point is that as long as every one is treated equally, no laws favour anyone - then all the people are happy.
Then it comes to competency..

Think about it, as a Muslim in US - you are allowed to not eat pork, you are allowed to not drink alcohol, you are allowed to pray to god as many times as you want. The Government simply does not interfere in your personal beliefs. You are free to choose.

Do you need a Muslim as the President of US to fulfill your needs?

Of course they are. anyone who says otherwise is misinformed.

You need to tell this to @Akheilos

 

[Dubious]

I dont have the energy right now to discuss the rest of the your post which would require me to fully apply my mind.

Here is a simple part though that I can discuss easily.
The fact is that a religious community does not need its own person to rule them is evident throughout India. But proving that does not mean that for a 100 years continuously some non-Hindu should run India.

Its simple, no one had an issue with MMS being a Sikh. The only reason he was voted out is because he has failed to run this country, rather run it aground.
People dont complain that Sonia Gandhi is a Christian. They complain that she is western and a foreigner whose loyalties dont lie with India.

If you think that Modi's election means Hindus are electing their kin to the PM post, then you could not be more wrong. The majority of the people voted for him because he promised 'ache din' with jobs, wages, faster GDP growth(its become like a drug to the people, cant live without it), good governance, less corruption. Why else would BJP have lost the election in 2004 or 2009 if all the Hindus were just bent on voting for Hindutva?

Otherwise even Rahul Gandhi is a Hindu.

The fact was that of the current set of leaders, Modi was by far the most competent leader. That is why people voted for him.

Or have you ever heard any Indian complain as to why Indian Army Chief is more often than not a Sikh?
Or have you ever heard an Indian complain that ex President Abdul Kalam was a Muslim? He is almost worshipped here as one of the greatest Indians ever and the best President India has ever had.

The point is that as long as every one is treated equally, no laws favour anyone - then all the people are happy.
Then it comes to competency..

Think about it, as a Muslim in US - you are allowed to not eat pork, you are allowed to not drink alcohol, you are allowed to pray to god as many times as you want. The Government simply does not interfere in your personal beliefs. You are free to choose.

Do you need a Muslim as the President of US to fulfill your needs?


You need to tell this to @Akheilos

Same question do you need a Non muslim leader to full fill yours? Like I said the only thing Shariah talks about is elected leader....but you went silent...nowhere does it say Muslim cant be but if he is going to implement Shariah he needs to at least know it

 

[Contrarian]

Same question do you need a Non muslim leader to full fill yours? Like I said the only thing Shariah talks about is elected leader....but you went silent...nowhere does it say Muslim cant be but if he is going to implement Shariah he needs to at least know it

You can discuss this with @RAMPAGE as to whether or not non Muslims are second class citizens in a Sharia state.

I believe they are, my research had led me to believe they are.

 

[Dubious]

You can discuss this with @RAMPAGE as to whether or not non Muslims are second class citizens in a Sharia state.

I believe they are, my research had led me to believe they are.

And what research? Please post it for all to see your claims!