No fighters for pakistan: Russia

[sbh02]

India can afford to pay it, which is why Russia sells to India.

If Pakistan wants to pay for these jets, Russia will sell them too.

India tried to stop Russia conducting its military exercises in Pakistan post Uri, but failed miserably in their attempts.

 

[nomi007]

Russian will sell
euro fighter is al;so on card
but we are looking for 5th gen

 

[PakEye]

No need to go Russia and ask for help to assemble RD-93 in Pakistan .. Just wait for China to mature in engine project like WS-13 and WS-15 ... Then sure we will use WS-13 in Thunder and that will be manufactures in Pakistan and thunder's production no way going to stop .. You know... !!!

Chinese option is open for Pakistan but will be available in future in current scenario than we will invest the huge money for setting up a overhaul facility for more than 250 engines and there maintenance not only for PAF but for possible buyer country's needs. than why not we invest in assembly line.

 

[The SC]

Well, the guy is being rational.. there is no deal signed yet with Pakistan, let alone talk about deliveries.. and even if there were some talks between Russia and Pakistan concerning the SU-35, the time- When India's Modi is in Russia signing big contracts- is not appropriate to talk about Pakistan talks at all.. Further more the Pakistani Russian talks are between Governments.. so why ask a private company CEO? Should Ask Putin!

Like they say: "Money talks", and with Indian deals in the 10 billion$ figure, what one should expect even from a private source?
Russia is taking chances with its technologies _due to the economic crisis created by Western sanctions_ The US can and might take a deep look at those Russian systems either directly or through Usraeli Agencies who will be asked to "Enhance" the systems!!!

 

[Zain Malik]

Chinese option is open for Pakistan but will be available in future in current scenario than we will invest the huge money for setting up a overhaul facility for more than 250 engines and there maintenance not only for PAF but for possible buyer country's needs. than why not we invest in assembly line.

Yes maintenance and overhauling will give us experience to build Engine...
Maintenance will be a good step but complete Production line should be Chinese because Russian changes its colors..

Nemichandra K P is an indian who wrote this , please read the first line first clearly

The Russians have been trying hard to sell their Su 35 with little success. The offered it to India and we rejected their offer since it is very similar to the Su 30MKI. Very recently Indonesia has agreed to buy 16 Su 35S and negotiations with China are ongoing. Brazil Vietnam and Pakistan are also said to be interested.

Present Scenario:The Economic sanctions imposed on Russia by the West has undoubtedly put them in a tough spot. This will further increase the pressure on them to sell those super Flankers. Vladimir Kozhin an aid of Vladimir Putin is said to have told reporters that Russia may sell Su 35 to Pakistan.
Moscow is also trying to get close to Islamabad utilizing the unstable relationship between Pakistan and US and Pakistan's closeness to China.

Possibilities:Acquiring Su 35 will definitely give Pakistan an edge over current IAF fighters. Compared to the Su 30MKI it has better radar, more powerful engines, super cruise( supersonic speeds without after burners)and longer range.

In a BVR(Beyond Visual Range) combat situation Su 35 definitely has an edge due to its N-035 IRBIS-E AESA radar but the performance of BVR missiles in all major wars have been unsatisfactory to say the least. And most of the times the engagements have been reduced to visual range.

In visual range the higher thrust to weight ratio will give the Su 35 a higher climbing rate and more acceleration. Both Su 30MKI and the Su 35 have similar silhouettes, this makes identification even tougher in visual range and both sides will take collateral damage while making kills.


But all in not lost for the IAF. Firstly PAF has been handling only light and nimble dogfighters like F16 and JF 17. Handling a big, Heavy and powerful Fighter like the Su 35 will be different. You cannot use the same strategies and game plan which you would have in an F 16. Also mastering TVC (Thrust vectoring)will require significant practice and take its own time. The current performance of the IAF in Indradhanush combat exercises where they scored 11 - 0 kills against British typhoons shows that they have really mastered their Sukhois.

Also Pakistan is taking a big risk, In all the previous conflicts Russia has openly supported India. The last thing they want is for Russia to deny them spares and missiles during a war.

Counter Measures:India is extensively modernizing its Su 30 squadrons also the proposed upgradation to Super Sukhoi configuration which is said to be very close to the FGFA will make it even with the Su35 . If India Inducts the FGFA(Indian version of T50), it will give the IAF significant advantages over the Su 35.

So, By the Time PAF has a good number of Su 35 and adequately trained pilots, the IAF will have significant time to field Super Sukhois and if possible the FGFA(Which is running behind schedule)

Political Outcomes :Russians would have definitely shot themselves on the foot, This deal will only give them short term gains and marginal profit but will prove to be bad on the longer term. India may further look towards the French, EADS or US for Aircrafts. The US has already replaced Russia as India's number one arms exporter and this gap will only widen.

India will also look more towards indigenous production of Aircrafts and will speed up development and production of Tejas MK2.

sources : https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-make-out-of-Pakistan-getting-Su-35-from-Russia

Forget FGFA till 2022 and come back to the world of reality...

 

[The SC]

Why do you think paf not going for j10 or j11?

Well, since you want to sound that knowledgeable.. shouldn't you know why?
I think even newcomers to PDF know why!
Maybe you are too self-centered to read Pakistani Threads about these matters? and you come asking stupid questions!? or Trolling?

 

[Sinnerman108]

And military sales, given reports Russia may consider selling Su-35s in the future?

We are not delivering any military aircraft to Pakistan. We have made deliveries of transport helicopters and that contract has been completed. No contracts or plans for any other military-related equipment to Pakistan exist for present.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/no-fighters-for-pakistan-russia.456162/#ixzz4NH48Kcg1
https://defence.pk/threads/no-fighters-for-pakistan-russia.456162/#ixzz4NH48Kcg1
Very diplomatically answered.

 

[The SC]

J-10 is probably shit

It is not what you think , otherwise China won't be making a thousand of them..
For Pakistan think of the J-10s as a strategic reserve they can get 48 of them anytime they want..
They want something else from Europe or Russia but not from China for now!

What about the number difference(270 vs 74) and Super Sukhoi upgrade

They can't send more than a 100 of them _maximum_ in case of war,..those 270 are scattered all over India's bases..

 

[Kaniska]

Russia will sell everything we can pay for. Just wait for the fever to subside.

Best statement...At least China is more loyal than Russia now...For Russia and Pakistan relation to grow, it is now a matter about how much both statergically and financially Pakistan can offer Russia in terms of Anti US alliances than India.....Although Indian people and politicians are happy for the recent deal, but i strongly feel that it is a time Russia and India relation need a reality check...We can not be good friends till the point, India keep on buying something from you.

I feel personally, China is more consistent its approach towards India( Be in Good or bad) than the Russia what it was used to be in earlier days...

 

[raj76]

Why Russia has to permit the sale of a Chinese copy?
Chinese fighters are always available to paf...but they are not willing to go for them for quality reasons!!

russian engine and parts makes them a party

 

[The SC]

kid the real threat will be IAF RAFALE, that why PAF is looking for 4.5 gen fighter jet, Su-30MKI on par with PAF F-16 so don't worry from Su-30MKI

PLA's J-10C may be able to surpass US and EU counterparts

The J-10C — the upgrade version of China's J-10 fighter, designed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group — may be able to catch up with the American F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and surpass most of its European counterparts.
China is still unable to fully compete against the United States, Russia and France in developing 4.5-generation fighters, but the advanced fighters are important for the People's Liberation Army Air Force and Navy Air Force to fill the gap before fifth-generation stealth fighters — such as the J-20 and J-31 — are ready for service.
Many of China's neighbors have equipped their military forces with 4.5-fighters since 2005 when the Republic of Korea Air Force received its first 60 F-15K Slam Eagle. Singapore began to receive F-15SG Strike Eagles in 2008, while Australia got its F/A-18E/F in 2009. India and Malaysia have also purchased the Russian-built Su-30MKI and Su-30MKM. Since 2012, Russia also deployed Su-30SM and Su-35s to the Chinese border.
China is around 15 years behind the United States and 12 years behind some European powers in the development of 4.5-fighters, the report said, adding this is the reason why a J-10C 4.5-generation fighter is needed for China to replace both the J-10A and J-10B in the future. Equipped with active phased array radar and avionic system similar to the J-20, the Sina Military Network stressed that the J-10C can be more powerful than the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale.
China will also develop the J-15B based on its J-15 carrier-based fighter. The report said that both the J-10C and J-15B can be as powerful as the US F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. Both fighters are estimated to begin their service with the PLA Air Force and Navy Air Force by 2016. Meanwhile, most of China's fighters in 2020 will be 4.5-generation fighters, while the fifth generation fighters will begin their service with front line units as well.

http://www.asian-defence.net/2014/02/j-10c-may-be-able-to-surpass-us-and-eu.html


On topic:

Islamabad and Moscow are negotiating a deal on Su-35 and Su-37 jets, Shahab Qadir Khan, deputy director of export promotion services in the Pakistani Defense Export Promotion Organization, told Sputnik.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201609081045073021-pakistan-russia-negotiating-fightersu-jets/

Look at the source and the date in the link!!!

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Griffin have already advanced to NG few years ago. By the time JFT block III comes around (Block II is already behind schedule) who knows what Grippen would be fielding. JFT will always be JFT and Griffin will always be Griffin

Well yeah we are bit behind Gripen First Flew in 1988.. it'll be Ahead but we can Compare JFT Block II with older Versions of Gripen.. also there are threads available for that..

 

[SQ8]

Nahin Bhai! Kal Su-35 land kar raha hai per report of Pakistani members.

 

[tarrar]

Pakistan is waiting for J10C & they are waiting on J20 & J31. Depending on how well they perform as compared to modern fighters decisions will be made accordingly.

Apart from this, we all Pakistan is going to be part of Turkish TFX program. So it all looks good for PAF but the time is a issue.

 

[iby32]

Bhai, J10s ?

Why not j11D is it mad in russia or franc or usa that india can lobby about it

Telling you this is only currently the best option we have

J-11D

You are right bro, i havd mentiond this fighter in other threads we should ask china for j11d j10c or j16 may be

https://www.google.co.in/amp/www.fi...emezov/419929/lite/?client=ms-android-htc-revhttp://m.thehindu.com/news/national...r-pakistan-sergey-chemezov/article9225218.ece


That is the thing of the past....you got the access to engine only because jf17 is a Chinese project...!!
Topic at hand is about the fighters...not about the components and sub components!

You can not fly jet without engine its not off topic you need to learn if france dont give you engine for rafale for exmaple how you gona fly it. With hot air balloon jf17 is not chinese

Off topic post....stick to the topic at hand!!

Every one else who reply is of topic only you discussing on topic the statment said no contract has been signd with pakistan so far at the present he never said any thing about future. So think about it
Jf 17 is joint project between pakistan and china mainly for pakistan air force like your tejas help from israel us franc n russia for a made inindian jet teja which dont even fly

lol so what JF-17 is developed with the help and partner ship between PAC and CAC of China on 50 : 50 % pertnership because Pakistan haven't the relative industrial and technological Industries.
No major fighter aircraft/complex weapon system since the advent of globalization has been completely independent of subsystems procured/ sourced from another country.

Brazil has been very successful with its “Embraer” line of commercial aircraft. All its avionics, all its engines, and several of its systems come from the US.
Even Saab Gripen uses over 50% imported components from US,Italy and other countries. Still it is a Swedish aircraft because it is designed and built by Saab.
and Now look into your super dooper LCA Tejas the engine(G.E F-104), ejection seat (Martin Baker), actuators(Moog) and radar (Elta EL/M 2032) are of USA, British, USA and Israeli origin respectively. These are the major imported systems.
Reinventing the wheel and getting every component and sub component of a combat aircraft indiginously produced is not feasible. The reason is that these are low cost items and to set up a production line for a limited demand is not practical.

You forgot to mention tejas is copy of mirage 2000 or rafale which is french product not indian