Nearly 100 People Still Missing After Condo Building Collapses in Florida, Officials Reveal

[Hamartia Antidote]

Although even at the lower number of $9 mill, that's still a tremendous amount of loot. Divided by the number of units in that building, it'll still come out to a huge number per unit.

CNN said the assessment started at $80,190 for a single bedroom unit.

 

[Gomig-21]

CNN said the assessment started at $80,190 for a single bedroom unit.

Imagine having to come up with $80K because you have to pitch in to fix the building. That's what sucks about condo associations.

And now the death toll is unfortunately up to 22 and the worst part is the mayor is now going to sign an order to have the rest of the building demolished. So all those apartment owners will be out of their place and now you have to wonder how these people are going to get compensated for all of this, between the lawsuits for the deaths and properties destruction, it's going to be quite the figure wow.

 

[PakFactor]

Imagine having to come up with $80K because you have to pitch in to fix the building. That's what sucks about condo associations.

And now the death toll is unfortunately up to 22 and the worst part is the mayor is now going to sign an order to have the rest of the building demolished. So all those apartment owners will be out of their place and now you have to wonder how these people are going to get compensated for all of this, between the lawsuits for the deaths and properties destruction, it's going to be quite the figure wow.

I deal with commercial insurance and can only say one thing law suits will start flying out. This is an ugly situation. However those who lost due to the collapse would have insurance and be covered but the rest are out of luck.

 

[Gomig-21]

I deal with commercial insurance and can only say one thing law suits will start flying out. This is an ugly situation. However those who lost due to the collapse would have insurance and be covered but the rest are out of luck.

I think the biggest issue will be the coverage. I highly doubt the insurance that was taken out by the association for the building covers a collapse of this nature. I could be wrong, but typically in FLA, they probably have the standard coverage for fire, hurricane damage, flooding and things of that sort. But a collapse that was due to lack of upkeep and poor maintenance is considered negligence that the insurance company could probably deny compensation for, especially when we're going to be talking about hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damages, especially with what will most likely be a high death toll over 100 people at least.

It certainly is an ugly situation and I think it will be exacerbated by the fact that there might not be coverage for this type of damage and the onus will fall on the condo association itself for negligence. And I'm pretty sure they don't have nearly the amount that will be needed.

 

[PakFactor]

I think the biggest issue will be the coverage. I highly doubt the insurance that was taken out by the association for the building covers a collapse of this nature. I could be wrong, but typically in FLA, they probably have the standard coverage for fire, hurricane damage, flooding and things of that sort. But a collapse that was due to lack of upkeep and poor maintenance is considered negligence that the insurance company could probably deny compensation for, especially when we're going to be talking about hundreds of millions of dollars worth of damages, especially with what will most likely be a high death toll over 100 people at least.

It certainly is an ugly situation and I think it will be exacerbated by the fact that there might not be coverage for this type of damage and the onus will fall on the condo association itself for negligence. And I'm pretty sure they don't have nearly the amount that will be needed.

Depends on the policy if they have a Broad or Special Form Property policy without a collapse exclusion they are good. I had client's who's roof collapsed and were covered.

However, as you rightly pointed out the main issue this was a know existing issue and no body did anything to "secure the premises" as required per the ISO Form on the policy. Hence, if I was the carrier I'd probably decline coverage based on the facts considering their was an engineering scope that was done as well, and no one took any action.

The Association Board Members are royally screwed mostly likely they have basic D&O Limits of 1,000,000 that'll get exhausted within the 1st and 2nd year of legal fighting. Leaving everyone involved with nothing.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Imagine having to come up with $80K because you have to pitch in to fix the building. That's what sucks about condo associations.

Oh a guy I worked with told me how his wife (before they were married) bought a condo in NH ~1990 during some hot housing bubble. When it burst many were so underwater they ran away. So everybody's condo fee skyrocketed to make up for it. Then more ran away. It was a disaster.

He told me never to buy a condo...because if you think your neighbors are as fiscally responsible as yourself you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[PakFactor]

Oh a guy I worked with told me how his wife (before they were married) bought a condo in NH ~1990 during some hot housing bubble. When it burst many were so underwater they ran away. So everybody's condo fee skyrocketed to make up for it. Then more ran away. It was a disaster.

He told me never to buy a condo...because if you think your neighbors are as fiscally responsible as yourself you are in for a rude awakening.

I've always stayed away from those -- even townhouses as well.

I had client's that came to me with months worth of gaps cause storm chasers filed claims and stuff; and carriers didn't want to touch unless issues were resolved.

One recently kept calling me every hour had to input like 20 buildings data into the system before submitting, I'm like dude you just gave me the info 30 mins ago and it's Friday night no Underwriter is available until Monday.

 

[Gomig-21]

Depends on the policy if they have a Broad or Special Form Property policy without a collapse exclusion they are good. I had client's who's roof collapsed and were covered.

However, as you rightly pointed out the main issue this was a know existing issue and no body did anything to "secure the premises" as required per the ISO Form on the policy. Hence, if I was the carrier I'd probably decline coverage based on the facts considering their was an engineering scope that was done as well, and no one took any action.

The Association Board Members are royally screwed mostly likely they have basic D&O Limits of 1,000,000 that'll get exhausted within the 1st and 2nd year of legal fighting. Leaving everyone involved with nothing.

Interesting. That "no collapse exclusion" or inclusion, I guess, is what you mean by broad or special form policy, if it's actually in there or not. I'm thinking the only way they could have a policy that would cover a collapse is if they listed the causes for it, such as an earthquake, hurricanes, even fire can bring a building down. There's also terrorism coverage from what I know and the Act of God (which might make this a bit interesting if they go that route). The problem is, none of those actually caused this and like you said, they not only knew about it from 2018, they squabbled about the repairs and procrastinated. I think the best they will get is a settlement that will barely be enough to cover half of what is needed to pay compensation for all the damages and lives lost.

They'll probably get some help from outside associated sources such as synagogues and local fund raising and things of that sort. I'm sure the Red Cross is helping a lot of the survivors with places to stay and food etc. But it definitely is a tough situation.

Oh a guy I worked with told me how his wife (before they were married) bought a condo in NH ~1990 during some hot housing bubble. When it burst many were so underwater they ran away. So everybody's condo fee skyrocketed to make up for it. Then more ran away. It was a disaster.

He told me never to buy a condo...because if you think your neighbors are as fiscally responsible as yourself you are in for a rude awakening.

Yeah, it's not a good thing. BTW, another building down the street has been ordered to be evacuated because it has been deemed unsafe. You know that all the surrounding buildings and all along the coast in all of FLA will be reevaluating their structural integrity because of this. And Elsa is on her way!

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Yeah, it's not a good thing. BTW, another building down the street has been ordered to be evacuated because it has been deemed unsafe. You know that all the surrounding buildings and all along the coast in all of FLA will be reevaluating their structural integrity because of this. And Elsa is on her way!

It's likely its twin building built down the street at the same time.

 

[Gomig-21]

It's likely its twin building built down the street at the same time.

I didn't know there was a twin building, that makes sense.

 

[PakFactor]

Interesting. That "no collapse exclusion" or inclusion, I guess, is what you mean by broad or special form policy, if it's actually in there or not. I'm thinking the only way they could have a policy that would cover a collapse is if they listed the causes for it, such as an earthquake, hurricanes, even fire can bring a building down. There's also terrorism coverage from what I know and the Act of God (which might make this a bit interesting if they go that route). The problem is, none of those actually caused this and like you said, they not only knew about it from 2018, they squabbled about the repairs and procrastinated. I think the best they will get is a settlement that will barely be enough to cover half of what is needed to pay compensation for all the damages and lives lost.

They'll probably get some help from outside associated sources such as synagogues and local fund raising and things of that sort. I'm sure the Red Cross is helping a lot of the survivors with places to stay and food etc. But it definitely is a tough situation.



Yeah, it's not a good thing. BTW, another building down the street has been ordered to be evacuated because it has been deemed unsafe. You know that all the surrounding buildings and all along the coast in all of FLA will be reevaluating their structural integrity because of this. And Elsa is on her way!

That is correct on the Broad Form it specifically lists what's covered and what's excluded. The Special Form (is a superior form) which covers All Perils except hose specifically listed as excluded.

I was able to research and find out the Association has $ 48 million in building coverage and $ 5 million in General Liability Coverage. James River Insurance attorney has agreed to give the full limits of $ 5 million and will not stand in the way or put up any challenge (an honorable thing to do especially in the insurance industry). The property is most likely written by multiple carriers and it's stacked, possibly through Lloyds of London market. We wouldn't know at the moment until the Declaration Pages are revealed and the percentage each carrier contributed.

See link (Board Members could be individually sued, up to including the engineering firm as well)
Insurers play huge role in Surfside condo legal claims (therealdeal.com)

However, the effects of this will be far reaching and will effect a lot of building owners to now do engineering assessments, and carriers are already sending out notices. I represent carriers like Liberty Mutual who will not insure buildings over the age of 40+ years unless it's been gutted in some instances and renovated, etc.

See link:
Surfside tragedy rattles condo insurance industry | Miami Herald

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I didn't know there was a twin building, that makes sense.

One is at 8877

8877 Collins Ave · 8877 Collins Ave, Surfside, FL 33154, États-Unis

8877 Collins Ave, Surfside, FL 33154, États-Unis

www.google.com

the other 8777

8777 Collins Ave · 8777 Collins Ave, Surfside, FL 33154, États-Unis

8777 Collins Ave, Surfside, FL 33154, États-Unis

www.google.com

Actually it wasn't the twin that closed. It was another place

Crestview Towers condo in North Miami Beach evacuated due to unsafe conditions - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, FLA. (WSVN) - The City of North Miami Beach has ordered the evacuation of a condo building due to unsafe conditions.The North<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://wsvn.com/news/local/crestview-towers-condo-in-north-miami-beach-evacuated-due-to-unsafe-conditions/">Read...

wsvn.com

 

[CIA Mole]

That is correct on the Broad Form it specifically lists what's covered and what's excluded. The Special Form (is a superior form) which covers All Perils except hose specifically listed as excluded.

I was able to research and find out the Association has $ 48 million in building coverage and $ 5 million in General Liability Coverage. James River Insurance attorney has agreed to give the full limits of $ 5 million and will not stand in the way or put up any challenge (an honorable thing to do especially in the insurance industry). The property is most likely written by multiple carriers and it's stacked, possibly through Lloyds of London market. We wouldn't know at the moment until the Declaration Pages are revealed and the percentage each carrier contributed.

See link (Board Members could be individually sued, up to including the engineering firm as well)
Insurers play huge role in Surfside condo legal claims (therealdeal.com)

However, the effects of this will be far reaching and will effect a lot of building owners to now do engineering assessments, and carriers are already sending out notices. I represent carriers like Liberty Mutual who will not insure buildings over the age of 40+ years unless it's been gutted in some instances and renovated, etc.

See link:
Surfside tragedy rattles condo insurance industry | Miami Herald

my condo association went bankrupt due to negligence of existing structural issues.

and besides, can you do even file claim on behalf of dead owners? i read a lot of these residents are just rich hispanics from all over the place

 

[PakFactor]

my condo association went bankrupt due to negligence of existing structural issues.

and besides, can you do even file claim on behalf of dead owners? i read a lot of these residents are just rich hispanics from all over the place

Yes, it happens quite often sadly.
I'm confused what you mean by dead owners?

 

[Gomig-21]

Actually it wasn't the twin that closed. It was another place

Crestview Towers condo in North Miami Beach evacuated due to unsafe conditions - WSVN 7News | Miami News, Weather, Sports | Fort Lauderdale

NORTH MIAMI BEACH, FLA. (WSVN) - The City of North Miami Beach has ordered the evacuation of a condo building due to unsafe conditions.The North<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://wsvn.com/news/local/crestview-towers-condo-in-north-miami-beach-evacuated-due-to-unsafe-conditions/">Read...

wsvn.com

I thought they would've made a much bigger deal about it in the news if it was the twin sister building. That's just more affirmation that the methods and concrete aggregate from the early 80's has a lifespan on the coast and needs constant damp-proofing and ultra sounding of some sort to keep tabs on the condition of the rebar and other steel they used to reinforce the concrete.