Nationalism as opposed to Religion?

[livingdead]

Won't nationalism be redundant under a religious state?

Lets give an example of Pakistan. Most people are Muslim. If people stopped being nationalistic and were more religious they would still support Pakistan (since its a Muslim state) but with an added factor of Godwariness (and hence treating others well), being upright in character, giving much charity, etc?

most people might be muslims but there is sizable population of non muslims in pakistan. What do you think they should replace their nationalism with?

 

[CometMibro]

Islam is about replacing nationalism with Arab imperialism. You are demanded to obey an Arab prophet, follow and arab way of life, adopt arab customs and traditions, pray in direction of arabia..Islam replaces nationalism with Arab imperialism..

How do you know? Do you have proof that Islam is just following arabic traditions? Or is it just an assertion? Have you actually looked at the conditions of pre-Islamic arabia?

If Islam was so similar to pre existing arab traditions, why was it considered a huge social and cultural reform?

You would say the same thing if God made His final messenger from among the frenchmen, or the persians, or the indians, or the russians, or whoever. Just because the message originated there does not mean we are suddenly following arabs. I would follow the Prophet Muhammad even if he came from a group of people whom for some reason I hated.

 

[neehar]

well if religion is preferred over nationalism then im sure india would be a 1000 nations now.majority in india prefer nationalism to religion.besides i dont think conflict arises btwn both.u can be a muslim being an indian or a pakistani.nobody denies ur personal right

 

[Juice]

As an example ...there was no German "nation" until 1870's....before that you were loyal to your warchief (ancient times).....city or lord (medieval) etc.

 

[CometMibro]

most people might be muslims but there is sizable population of non muslims in pakistan. What do you think they should replace their nationalism with?

This is a good point. In the Islamic state the non-Muslims are under the protection of the Muslims. It does not go both ways. When war occurs, Muslim men are required to fight but non-Muslims are not. They can decline. Also, under the Islamic state, Muslims must pay more tax than non-Muslims.

This is just an example of how the relationship between non-Muslims and muslims under a secular state is different to that of an Islamic one.

Muslims have a duty to the caliphate. Non-Muslims do not.

 

[somebozo]

How do you know? Do you have proof that Islam is just following arabic traditions? Or is it just an assertion? Have you actually looked at the conditions of pre-Islamic arabia?

If Islam was so similar to pre existing arab traditions, why was it considered a huge social and cultural reform?

You would say the same thing if God made His final messenger from among the frenchmen, or the persians, or the indians, or the russians, or whoever. Just because the message originated there does not mean we are suddenly following arabs. I would follow the Prophet Muhammad even if he came from a group of people whom for some reason I hated.

Pre-islamic Arabia followed the much less accurate pagan lunar calender and muslims do the same today with exact same months.
Ramadan was considered holy in pagan Arabia and so it is under Islam. Hajj, Umraah, five prayers a day, devil stoning, and sacrifice are another set of pagan traditions continued under Islam.

Islam was a huge reform for backward pagan Arabs who worshiped stones and idols, for rest of the mankind it was a step backward.

Some research and critical thinking can help open up your mind unless you want to reject knowledge and continue to live in your cave..Google and youtube pagan beliefs and compare them yourself.

 

[livingdead]

This is a good point. In the Islamic state the non-Muslims are under the protection of the Muslims. It does not go both ways. When war occurs, Muslim men are required to fight but non-Muslims are not. They can decline. Also, under the Islamic state, Muslims must pay more tax than non-Muslims.

This is just an example of how the relationship between non-Muslims and muslims under a secular state is different to that of an Islamic one.

Muslims have a duty to the caliphate. Non-Muslims do not.

Will you be happy to live under such rule where muslims are 'protected' by non muslims? Also, I think tax is higher for non muslims in your scheme.

I am for equality of all citizens first and foremost, so even if you show a rosy picture for non muslims under caliphate, its unequal.

 

[truthseer]

There is also the all important 5th category.

The Pakistani who is now living abroad. Hyperpatriotic. Blind to the ills that plague the country of his birth. And aggressively hyperreligious and antiwest, while living off the fat of the land there. The luxury and security of distance providing the rose-hued tint in the goggles.

I see your flag and am not generalizing. But I have been told about this 5th element by a native Pakistani.

Agreed, this 5th group wants war with India, nice of them, since they're not the ones who're gonna get nuked and all. This group asks us to fight Israel to save Palestine, again, it's not them that'll get nuked. This group wants their version of Shariat, again, it's not them that'll have to live under it. This group wants us to do everything their way, but we'll be the one who'll get tortured.

This group will see Shia murders and say it ain't happening. This group will see Karachiites dying and blame MQM. This group will see loadshedding and blame PPP.

This group will ask for stuff that will cause us problems, eg. mandatory Arabic, and not live under it. This group will fund Taliban and bless them, but they won't have to live under them

 

[somebozo]

This is a good point. In the Islamic state the non-Muslims are under the protection of the Muslims. It does not go both ways. When war occurs, Muslim men are required to fight but non-Muslims are not. They can decline. Also, under the Islamic state, Muslims must pay more tax than non-Muslims.

This is just an example of how the relationship between non-Muslims and muslims under a secular state is different to that of an Islamic one.

Muslims have a duty to the caliphate. Non-Muslims do not.

End the nonsense....no caliphate bought any kind of scientefic or industrial revolution. They were just crime syndicates bent on enriching themselves by invading and man slaughtering "unbelievers" in the name of holy war..

 

[Zarvan]

End the nonsense....no caliphate bought any kind of scientefic or industrial revolution. They were just crime syndicates bent on enriching themselves by invading and man slaughtering "unbelievers" in the name of holy war..

first 600 years brought immense scientific development which was done in institutions established by Muslim leaders but kufr slaves only deny it to please their master USA

 

[truthseer]

first 600 years brought immense scientific development which was done in institutions established by Muslim leaders but kufr slaves only deny it to please their master USA

@somebozo is just a West loving atheist. He's been lured by Satan

 

[RuheTag]

Muslims that worked in sciences earlier and made some good advances worked as individuals or were appointed by caliphate or worked in any institution established by the caliphate?

 

[somebozo]

first 600 years brought immense scientific development which was done in institutions established by Muslim leaders but kufr slaves only deny it to please their master USA

That credit does not go to islam, science thrived despite the barriers posed by Islam..and all of these development were the work of mawali's and heretics who were never accepted into the fold of Islam and many of these figures are not celebrated today simply because they belong to a different sect.

 

[truthseer]

That credit does not go to islam, science thrived despite the barriers posed by Islam..and all of these development were the work of mawali's and heretics who were never accepted into the fold of Islam and many of these figures are not celebrated today simply because they belong to a different sect.

Atheist lies

 

[somebozo]

@somebozo is just a West loving atheist. He's been lured by Satan

People who life, fabricate, indoctrinate and manipulate young minds in the name of Islam to serve their arab masters are those who are posed by satan..free and critical thinking are not the work of satan..

Muslims that worked in sciences earlier and made some good advances worked as individuals or were appointed by caliphate or worked in any institution established by the caliphate?

Many of these scientists were shunned by the mullahs and molvis of their time hence science never became a strong hold of Muslim society. Also Islam has always been the tool of imperialists utilizing religion as a medium to control the people. These ruling classes would be threatened with wide spread adoption of scientefic knowledge hence many works of science were silences or scholars were declared heretics..

Higgs boson physicist shunned in Pakistan | Science | guardian.co.uk


PAKISTAN: Pakistan refuses to own its 'heretic' scientist


No sane minded scientist would care or give a damn about believing in religion be is Islam or christianity or judaism!