Nationalism as opposed to Religion?

[truthseer]

People who life, fabricate, indoctrinate and manipulate young minds in the name of Islam to serve their arab masters are those who are posed by satan..free and critical thinking are not the work of satan..

* lie *possessed

Well, now we know how educated atheists are.

Anyways, I didn't lie, tell me in which sentence have I lied?

Do you love the West?
Yes


Are you atheist?
By all accounts, yes

 

[Zarvan]

That credit does not go to islam, science thrived despite the barriers posed by Islam..and all of these development were the work of mawali's and heretics who were never accepted into the fold of Islam and many of these figures are not celebrated today simply because they belong to a different sect.

no body support these fatwas but now even west accepts the role off Muslim scientists made in first 600 years off Islam and caliphate but touts off kufr are too obsessed with their master USA and other forces off kufr

 

[SHAMK9]

I'd chose nationalism over religion if I had to

 

[utraash]

seriously? lol
do you really believe that?
for me my religion is first before my nation, becuase i believe it to be true so obviously i would put god before pakistan.

That is why current state of pak doesnt wonder me at all. N wat if ur minority takes similar stand in that case people like you labelled them as traitor...
Boss there is no identity of relegious nerds like you without motherland.

 

[haviZsultan]

Nationalism isn't just our right but is our duty and responsibility as Pakistanis. According to a poll 86% Pakistanis identify themselves by their ethnic group or the sect/religion. People don't even see this as a problem when it is a huge problem.

Nationalism can gel this disparate nation together. Nationalism is not the enemy but the savior.

 

[Pboy]

None of them.

Or a bit of both.

Its pathetic by people in Pakistan to think that Muslims in other countries care about them. The Muslim Ummah doesnt work at all.

They actually dont give a crap. Everyone are after personal gains in this world so why shouldnt we do that too?

But then again religion teaches us to not go for personal gains like that.

We should look for our best and dont forget the others too like some of the other muslim majority countries, *cough Saudi Arabia* *Cough Arab countries cough*

Now im not sure whether you meant whether I would prefer being Pakistani or Norwegian over Muslim or if you meant nationalism and religion in general.

 

[illusion8]

Maulana Azad did predict rightly - after the initial warmth of Pakistan's creation cools down the inherent contradictions and confusions will emerge.

 

[Stardust]

I used to think like you. I was almost convinced that what you are saying is the truth.


But there came a point in my life, where I realized..

The arabs of today are disgraceful. They are worthless. They do not represent Islam.

If you think Saudis represent Islam, then you are mistaken.

You Turks never go to Hajj.

Go to Hajj. And see all the people around the world that go there. You will be surprised. Islam does not equal Arab. Arabs were once a great people, but now look at them.

They will try to insult me for saying this because they have money. But I laugh at them harder. Did they earn any of that money?

Did they work for it?

The only Arab I like is my messenger Muhammad saw.

If Iranians were Sunni, they would be 1000x better than Saudis or Arabs in general.

Just something I have observed.

Who says Turks never go to Hajj ? Sorry but it is a big lie,in every year nearly 100000 people goes to Hajj from Turkey,my uncle and his wife went to Hajj last year,i don't think that they went to Bahama's or Hawaii instead of Hajj.And my mother and father are waiting for it because KSA limits the number of the hajis...i think most of you don't know anything about Turkish people,our system is democratic and secular but it does not mean we are atheists,most of us are muslims and we also like our democratic and secular system,because it gives a lot of rights to the muslims.Just need to learn how to use rights.

 

[Pride]

The original question is very interesting and it has been raised during 1920s to 1947 when Demand of Pakistan has been raised. All Islamic scholars opposed the thought of having a nation based on religion as that is against Islam's ideology. It was violating Islam's ideology of tolerance and having boundary. But then Political agenda was different.

According to Dharmic religions like Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism there is no such precedence of religion over nation. They could be one or other way as well. Great example is Bhagat Singh who left Sikhism practice for Nationalistic ideology.

 

[livingdead]

@Pride, bhagat singh was atheist..

 

[Pride]

@Pride, bhagat singh was atheist..

No! he wasn't. If you read some other Freedom fighter's books who worked with him. It was always mentioned that in early phase of joining HRA (Hindustan Republican Association) which later on changed to HSRA (Hindustan Socialist Republican Association) he was a religious person following all principles of Sikhism. It was later when he realized that dream of independence needs disguise then he sacrificed religious belief and principles.

 

[livingdead]

No! he wasn't. If you read some other Freedom fighter's books who worked with him. It was always mentioned that in early phase of joining HRA (Hindustan Republican Army) which later on changed to HRSA (Hindustan Republican Socialist Army) he was a religious person following all principles of Sikhism. It was later when he realized that dream of independence needs disguise then he sacrificed religious belief and principles.

He did not sacrifice religious belief, as there was no need to do so. Gandhi remained hindu and maulana azad remained muslim.
He was atheist and I think he was left leaning.

Read his letter in which he refuses to ask for forgiveness from god.

Here is one such letter.
http://www.shahidbhagatsingh.org/index.asp?link=atheist

 

[Pride]

He did not sacrifice religious belief, as there was no need to do so. Gandhi remained hindu and maulana azad remained muslim.
He was atheist and I think he was left leaning.

Read his letter in which he refuses to ask for forgiveness from god.

Here is one such letter.
Shaheed Bhagat Singh great martyrs of punjab(India).Shaheed Bhagat Singh was the hero of freedom struggle in india, great freedom fighter of Punjab, great freedom fighter of India, true freedom fighter of Punjab,true freedom fighter of india

Well, We are saying same thing but time frame is different. When he was part of Naujawan Bharat Sabha and early stage of HRA then he was a Sikh. It was later at point when he studied Lenin and Marx ideologies then he turned to athiest though some Religious sikh claims that when he was in jail he started following principles of Sikhism again and when he died he grew his hair again.

 

[livingdead]

Well, We are saying same thing but time frame is different. When he was part of Naujawan Bharat Sabha and early stage of HRA then he was a Sikh. It was later at point when he studied Lenin and Marx ideologies then he turned to athiest though some Religious sikh claims that when he was in jail he started following principles of Sikhism again and when he died he grew his hair again.

the bold bit is clearly a lie, we have heard similar claims from muslims too. He clearly states why him remaining an atheist on face of death does not amount to vanity, and goes quite details into it.
But yeah, obviously he was not born atheist, his parents were not.

 

[qamar1990]

Where has the muslim world gone in the last 100 years by being extremely religious? I would say Turkey has done a lot better for itself since they have decided where their priorities lie. They have shown the way. Its not their fault that you and those like you fail to see it. And continue sliding backwards.

turkey isn't too far off from the muslim world, the only reason it is even where it is right now is because of its alliance with the west, don't be naive, the white people's countries are successful while all other races with exception of japan and south korea are third world countries, why is that? because these white people want to keep the rest of us down by waging war making mischief in our countries.
a countries success it seems doesn't have nothing to do with democracy or being secular, its actually involves kissing *** of the west and doing what they say, otherwise your going to have to work your *** off and suffer for decades to get out of your situation.

all of africa is poor, most of asia is third world, even some central asia is third world,but all the nations with white people are developed becuase they help each other while creating rift between the rest of us.

Modern "nationalism" didn't exist til fairly recently....tribalism and personal or clan loyalties trumped them back in the day....one reason for janissaries and mamelukes etc.

whats the diference? nationalism is nationalism weather your nationalistic about your tribe or your country.

That is why current state of pak doesnt wonder me at all. N wat if ur minority takes similar stand in that case people like you labelled them as traitor...
Boss there is no identity of relegious nerds like you without motherland.

of course for them religion is first as well it would be stupid to expect otherwise, but in the end we should be united against everybody who attacks us as a country, but if my country tries to destroy my religion then i will not be a part of my country.