NA bars Hindu lawmaker from presenting bill seeking ban on alcohol

[Dubious]

Previously Islam was taught through families and then reinforced in early school. Now the parents themselves aren’t educated on religion or leave it to the Mullah, then not much can be said on why the current conditions exist.

True...

Plus it is lack of interest...MANY in Pakistan actually think it is "modernized and advanced thinking" not to have religion in the household! This causes problem when the kid's curiosity hits a high and he has no one to guide him/ her!

I am all in favor of complete abolishing of Islam from every aspect of government and education, and taking it away from the people. Let blood run amok with ISIS and others to see where it all goes.

Now that is just plain silly!

When people do not value the gift they have or abuse it, it needs to be taken from them.

True! One really appreciates something when it is gone! But that is still evil! Considering this can become a curse to even your own!

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Alcohol is one of humanity's greatest plagues.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You can either educate the population and not remove "Islam" from syllabus (at least the similarities like basic manners which even civc education teaches in the 1st few yrs of education in West and Japan )....that way no one needs to rely on screaming molvi for basic guidance and can differentiate basic BS from Islam

OR

completely abolish religion then have every Tom Dick and Harry (molvis with personal vendetta or differences of opinion and wanting large fan base rather than speak the truth would alter what they know just to have people seek them repeatedly for "different advice") educating their versions and confusing the children like what happened in the case of ISIS (Descendants of immigrants to Europe- who didnt know their heritage tried to search for it and fell in the wrong hands)

Yes, this is the solution to TLP, PTM, TTP, and Daesh.

When the state monopolizes and controls the teaching of religion, teaching people the difference between actual Islam and falsehood, there will be less chance for mollahs and foreign agencies to exploit the people.

 

[xyx007]

it is very sad that Pakistan Muslim are doing business on Hindu Alcohol permit. if you compare the minorities in Pakistan vs minorities in India. minorities enjoyed more freedom in Pakistan. and listen to our minorities voices respectfully. I think we should take all of the bright minded people of Pakistan and media who said ill-treatment of minorities into Pakistan, we should take them into the train and show them our Muslim brother situation in India from this report.
If Muslim think democracy is the answer to bring back Muslim Khilafat, just forget it. it will never gonna happen
https://indianexpress.com/article/e...e-in-the-condition-of-indias-muslims-4444809/

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

It's not a quote inspired by someone, such prohibitions and bans do not stop people from doing what they want to do. While prohibition may have some benefits, it's disadvantages and drawbacks outweigh the advantages. These are simple things that You would understand and realize as you grow older ...

As for the claim That consumption of alcohol carries hudd punishment, just for your information, The Holy Qur'an does not prescribe any punishment for consumption of alcohol, nor do we have any example from the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) when he punished someone for consuming alcohol. Also, the word "Haram" is not used in the context of Alcohol in Qur'an. It's a sin, which like other sins, has to be avoided.

And that's why The Federal Shariat Court of Pakistan deciding the petition (Dr. Muhammad Aslam Khaki vs Federation of Pakistan Petition No.2/1 of 2006 ) declared whipping for the offense of drinking as un-Islamic and directed the government to amend the law to make the offense bailable.

Al-Nuayman ibn Amr was one Sahabah who had a very poor drinking problem. He was married to the sister of Abdur-Rahman inn Awf. He was regularly whipped for punishment for drinking and banned from battles (after Badr, Uhud, and Khandaq.) He was even kept in a cage to prevent him from escaping to join the Muslims in war.

Once Hazrat Umar sent lanat on him, but Rasulullah saws said that he is a pious man despite his faults and the sin of alcohol is a great sin but it does not make one kaffir. Eventually he left his drinking habits.

Also in fiqh, a person who drinks alcohol will not have their prayers accepted for 40 days. This does not mean that a person does not have to pray, but that he won’t be rewarded for it. If someone dies in this drunken state, they die a kaffir and go to Jahannam. The hadith for this is in Tirmidhi.

From the Hadith of the Prophet saws we know that alcohol is the gateway drug to many vices.

'Abdullah ibn Abbas narrated that the Prophet said, "Abstain from Khamr because it is the key (source) of all evils." [Abu Dawud]

There are many other commands also on the prohibition in Islam of alcohol and Rasulullah saws even asks believers to fight those Muslims who as a community refuse to leave alcohol (Abu Dawud).

 

[M. Sarmad]

Al-Nuayman ibn Amr was one Sahabah who had a very poor drinking problem. He was married to the sister of Abdur-Rahman inn Awf. He was regularly whipped for punishment for drinking and banned from battles (even Badr.) He was even kept in a cage to prevent him from escaping to join the Prophet saws in war.

.

Please provide a source for this ^^
AFAIK alcohol was reportedly banned in the fourth year of Hijra whereas Badr took place in the second year of Hijra.

Also in fiqh, a person who drinks alcohol will not have their prayers accepted for 40 days. This does not mean that a person does not have to pray, but that he won’t be rewarded for it. If someone dies in this drunken state, they die a kaffir and go to Jahannam. The hadith for this is in Tirmidhi.

From the Hadith of the Prophet saws we know that alcohol is the gateway drug to many vices.

'Abdullah ibn Abbas narrated that the Prophet said, "Abstain from Khamr because it is the key (source) of all evils." [Abu Dawud]

There are many other commands also on the prohibition in Islam of alcohol and Rasulullah saws even asks believers to fight those Muslims who as a community refuse to leave alcohol (Abu Dawud).

No one is denying that consumption of alcohol is a sin/vice as per Islam.
But the question is whether it's a crime (hudd) with a fixed punishment?
; a position not supported by the Holy Qur'an, that's why the (aforementioned) Federal Shariat Court judgment

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Please provide a source for this ^^
AFAIK alcohol was reportedly banned in the fourth year of Hijra whereas Badr took place in the second year of Hijra.

Yes, my mistake, you are right. He was banned from battles after Badr, Uhud, Khandaq during Abu Bakr's time and afterwards. The rest of factual, however.

He was flogged during the Prophet's time for drinking alcohol two times. The third time, he was even threatened with execution but he stopped.

http://www.alim.org/library/biography/companion/content/BIO/55/An-Nuayman ibn Amr

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yes, my mistake, you are right. He was banned from battles after Badr, Uhud, Khandaq during Abu Bakr's time and afterwards. The rest of factual, however. He was whipped during the Prophet's time.

http://www.alim.org/library/biography/companion/content/BIO/55/An-Nuayman ibn Amr

The source is a 1985 book by some Abdul Wahid Hamid.
I am asking for the primary source bro

From the Hadith of the Prophet saws we know that alcohol is the gateway drug to many vices.

Fuqahas base their opinion on the single Sahih Muslim Hadith (Book 10, Hadith 1280) according to which a drunk man was once brought to The Holy Prophet (PBUH) and he was then given about forty lashes with two palm branches as punishment. But when Umer (R.A) became the Caliph, he increased the punishment to 80 lashes. The Islamic Jurists, therefore, have always differed on the punishment and even the definition of "khamr" .. (Beer, Whisky, and Vodka, according to a liberal Hanafi view, are permitted, and all forms of grape alcohol or Khamr are banned absolutely)

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I am asking for the primary source bro

I have heard the story of this sahabi many times in lectures from prominent scholars so I can attest to the validity of it. I am sure I have also read it several times in various books. I can provide a better source later when I find it, in sha Allah, as a google search has not yielded anything more.

(Beer, Whisky, and Vodka, according to a liberal Hanafi view, are permitted, and all forms of grape alcohol or Khamr are banned absolutely)

I have never heard this. What groups follow this and what is their rationale?

So far, I found this.

Narrated 'Uqba bin Al-Harith: When An-nuaman or his son was brought in a state of drunkenness, Allah's Apostle ordered all those who were present in the house to beat him. I was one of those who beat him. We beat him with shoes and palm-leaf stalks. (Sahih Bukhari, Book #38, Hadith #509)

Narrated Anas bin Malik: The Prophet beat a drunk with palm-leaf stalks and shoes. And Abu Bakr gave (such a sinner) forty lashes. (Sahih Bukhari, Book #81, Hadith #764)

When I find a good source for the full information about this sahabi's story. I will post it.

 

[prashantazazel]

I would use the term decadent instead.

I say let the minorities themselves make the call for themselves. From what I see on the street, most Pakistani Non-Muslims are in favor of the alcohol ban.

Possibly..
But would you care about the minority of overall population who wants to drink in peace?
They mayn't be a religious minority, but I think they would still have rights according to your constitution?

In medicine, we view alcohol as a drug as it leads to disease and pathology. It is much more dangerous than cannabis, qat, and other recognized drugs.

It is not only the leading cause of liver failure, a major cause of hepatitis, but also leading cause of down's syndrome through fetal alcohol syndrome.

Cocaine, crystal meth and opioids are more dangerous.

Also, Down's syndrome is a different entity (based on non disjunction of chromosome 21) compared to fetal alcohol syndrome. Symptoms are similar, though.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I have never heard this. What groups follow this and what is their rationale?

.

https://usu.instructure.com/courses...MUdLiNG8xUc3QFG0Wt7PkmbIxCsIRNqZSIj1DM&wrap=1


From the 12th century Al-Hidayah, one of the most influential compendia of Hanafi jurisprudence

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

View attachment 526409
https://usu.instructure.com/courses...MUdLiNG8xUc3QFG0Wt7PkmbIxCsIRNqZSIj1DM&wrap=1


From the 12th century Al-Hidayah, one of the most influential compendia of Hanafi jurisprudence

Any group, organization, or sect which practices this archaic ruling in the modern age?

Also, Down's syndrome is a different entity (based on non disjunction of chromosome 21) compared to fetal alcohol syndrome. Symptoms are similar, though.

Fetal alcohol syndrome associated with trisomy 21.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2952028

 

[prashantazazel]

Fetal alcohol syndrome associated with trisomy 21.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2952028

That's my favourite source.

It clearly states that these cases are where Downs and fetal alcohol coexist randomly. One is not the cause of the other.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Any group, organization, or sect which practices this archaic ruling in the modern age?

In Hanafi Fiqh, it simply does not go higher than Imam Abu Hanifa, and Burhanuddin is quoting none other than Abu Hanifa (and his students) himself.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

In Hanafi Fiqh, it simply does not go higher than Imam Abu Hanifa, and Burhanuddin is quoting none other than Abu Hanifa (and his students) himself.

Anyone practicing it today?

That's my favourite source.

It clearly states that these cases are where Downs and fetal alcohol coexist randomly. One is not the cause of the other.

Increased risk for both is associated with alcoholism of the mother. Anyway I have better use of time than to argue over moot points.