My definition of secularism is simple, India first, Narendra Modi tells ove

[rubyjackass]

Why does one almost always equate Right-wing with 'majority religious bias'?

Because that is the case with India.

Right wing policies also means fiscal conservatism, nationalism above regionalism, capitalism over 'socialism' etc. Of course there are fringe elements both sides of the aisle - you have fascists and religious fanatics one side, while, OTOH, you have the bleeding heart liberals making up rank and file of armed revolutionary groups like FARC, Naxals etc.

Right wing means different things in different countries. It means neo-Nazism in some Eastern European countries. It means small government in USA. But in India, the right wingers barely ask for smaller government. Even Narendra Modi only asks for easier business practices. No mention of smaller government so far.

Fortunately, in India, governments in power always tend to be moderate, no matter what side they are on. IMHO, its about time, that 'socialist' policies of Congress and its minions need to be given a rest and let the capitalist, 'less govt, less regulations' policies of the right take over. Lets, for sometime, do away with the 'entitlement' mindset of certain sections of the society and level the playground for all alike. Lets see what decades of socialist sops and entitlements have actually achieved.

I repeat, there is no 'less govt, less regulations' policy of the right wingers in India. You are mistaking what you hear about US politics with what is happening in India.

Besides very less government is already creating problems for Americans. Gun laws and gun crimes are only the tip of the iceberg.

The right wingers of USA were earlier more with the Democratic party, when the party used to hoodwink to the racist states. After what JFK passed Civil Rights bill, the racists left the party in the anger and have now hijacked the Republican party.

 

[mehboobkz]

Get over with Gujarat, entire Muslim population of Gujarat have. And you don't know anything about ground reality of pre-Gujarat riots. Why you guys are not letting the wounds to heel ? What moral justice you want ? And why for one case only ?


Human Rights Watch Report on India-2013

The protection of religious minorities received a boost from the prosecutions of several suspects in the 2002 Gujarat riots, resulting in over 75 convictions in 2012. These included the August conviction of Maya Kodnani, a former minister and a leader of Bajrang Dal, a militant Hindu organization.

World Report 2013: India | Human Rights Watch


Kodnani was BJP minister and Bajarang Dal is Hindu extremist organization,


Tell me one example of such justice to victims of riots in 65 years of Independence of India.


Read about Communal History of Gujarat which extends to 3 centuries.

| Gujarat Riots: The True Story


I am sick of people fighting for Muslims only, when 300 Hindus were also killed.

For heaven's sake respect Supreme Court's verdict. They are much more intelligent than you guys.


Instead of fighting over Gujarat, save hundreds of thousands of women raped, children thrown into child prostitution, and dire state of family members of our fallen soldiers of IA, CRPF which is happening even today.

This should be issue of 2014 elections, condition today, not what happened a decade ago.


Anyone to comment ?

This is a devious, selective slander Against Modi sans facts. This thing was orchestrated by Khangress, Pakistan, Indian Muslims, CPI and Main stream media.

 

[CZAR]

Bhai, I have few simple questions, isn't our society already polarized to extreme ? Don't you see indifference among people ? Haven't feeling of Nationalism and Patriotism left in Soldiers only ?

I don't know what worst can happen. Only thing that make India what it stood for so many centuries is a common philosophy of Respect, Care for each other no matter which religion one belongs to and Collective Responsibility undertaken by all sections of country.

Enough of mixing religion into politics. I don't want BJP to fight election on Ram Mandir and Congress on Gujarat riots.

Talk to any soldier posted at J&K, border areas. What he wants from his country ?

You have raised a volley of issues (and I agree with quite a few), not all of which are connected to subject matter of debate.

As I mentioned in one of earlier posts - by making such statements - he is proposing a power sharing formula. He has tactfully drawn a linkage between India and the majority community.

And apparently, as per his formula, "India First" cannot co-exist without the tacit approval of the hindu masses, which make up for about 80% of the population. "India First", however, is possible without the minority support. Hence, an asymmetrical power sharing arrangement, such as this, would further alienate the minorities. This is what leads to institutionalized hatred - which is a recipe for disaster in a diverse environment like we have.

Besides, all the bold steps that we hope that he takes - whether its about foreign policy or economics - would be possible only after an overwhelming victory (200-220 maybe) - which seems incredible unlikely. In a scenario where BJP garners not more than 160-170, he will be heading a loosely held alliance which will render him as impotent as the current PM.

 

[ashokdeiva]

With an ongoing students agitation in Layola college in chennai, I am darm sure that Congress will not even get 1 seat in the 2014 election in TN

 

[Mritunjaya]

The baseline is that Modi is not saying anything. He does not even answer questions. And he claims the PM post. You see the problem here? He wants to be publicly elected without the responsibility of explaining his actions.

This is a blatant LIE and you know it. You tube is filled with Modi interviews. Forget interviews ....he was made to answers all questions by SIT. This has never been imposed on any other Chief Minister of India (in spite of the 900 riots that have taken place) ! The same SIT has now cleared him of all the accusation.

The only problem I see is your unwillingness to face facts and continue to demonize Modi based on your own prejudices and fears.

Who said anything about Congress? It was KS who sees Congress and BJP as the only alternatives for him. And you are the one who says Congress has been the most communal party. Both are exaggeration. I would rather vote for a party which cannot even think of forming central government.

Congress is THE MOST COMMUNAL party with a large base in India. That is no exaggeration. Congress has been playing communal politics right from 1947 when their communal politics split the nation. Its just a cold reality.

The reality is you would rather vote for a Anti-BJP party ......which is of course along expected lines.

But yours is a methane discharge. Because you attacked only one party.
Dont come with this selective balderdash to suit yr ends.

.........whatever makes you happy kid .............

 

[CZAR]

Why does one almost always equate Right-wing with 'majority religious bias'? Right wing policies also means fiscal conservatism, nationalism above regionalism, capitalism over 'socialism' etc. Of course there are fringe elements both sides of the aisle - you have fascists and religious fanatics one side, while, OTOH, you have the bleeding heart liberals making up rank and file of armed revolutionary groups like FARC, Naxals etc.

Fortunately, in India, governments in power always tend to be moderate, no matter what side they are on. IMHO, its about time, that 'socialist' policies of Congress and its minions need to be given a rest and let the capitalist, 'less govt, less regulations' policies of the right take over. Lets, for sometime, do away with the 'entitlement' mindset of certain sections of the society and level the playground for all alike. Lets see what decades of socialist sops and entitlements have actually achieved.

Appreciate your clarification. I had allowed myself the luxury as the high-decibel debate around Modi invariably boils down to, and not entirely unfairly, on his stance with respect to religious minorities and vice-a-versa.

As for escape from socialist system - i'm afraid you will first have to begin with amending the constitution. As for leadership, I am saddened and confused as to how the entire country could only manage a leader like Modi to challenge the rule of the Congress.

 

[Paan Singh]

If ABVP was Pm candidate, why would I have any doubts? But those days are gone and Modi is no ABVP- he's bad news man.

He is not.....he is advanced version of ABVP

 

[Mritunjaya]

As I mentioned in one of earlier posts - by making such statements - he is proposing a power sharing formula. He has tactfully drawn a linkage between India and the majority community.

And apparently, as per his formula, "India First" cannot co-exist without the tacit approval of the hindu masses, which make up for about 80% of the population. "India First", however, is possible without the minority support. Hence, an asymmetrical power sharing arrangement, such as this, would further alienate the minorities. This is what leads to institutionalized hatred - which is a recipe for disaster in a diverse environment like we have.

Besides, all the bold steps that we hope that he takes - whether its about foreign policy or economics - would be possible only after an overwhelming victory (200-220 maybe) - which seems incredible unlikely. In a scenario where BJP garners not more than 160-170, he will be heading a loosely held alliance which will render him as impotent as the current PM.

What is wrong if Modi draws a linkage between India and its Majority ? That is the very essence of democracy.

You would rather have it if a politician draws linkage between India and its Minority ? Is this what you meant by things that go 'unsaid' ?

If India First has to exist it has to be with the approval of the Majority ....where is the confusion there? how can it exist if the majority do no approve of it ? It makes no sense.

Are you insinuating that Muslims and Christians do not see 'India First' as their approach to life as an Indian citizen? They have 'Religion First' as their moto ?

If that is what you are claiming then hatred against the Hindus is already institutionalization in their society. That means disaster is only a few steps away....why blame Modi for this ....if not Modi then somebody else will step on this Minefield.

Modi is a man of strong convictions and strength of character who has come up in life the hard way, fighting with his back to the wall. There is nothing to suggest he will be an impotent PM. It would go against everything he has stood for, and that is highly unlikely.

 

[Backbencher]

this modi will take india make india alot worst than now

My dear firstly learn some English from your mates in Lahore and secondly if he will worsen India then its an oppurtunity for you to rejoice but I see your *** burning .

He is not.....he is advanced version of ABVP

Who can continously speak without fullstops in the speech.....uff thank god

 

[gubbi]

Because that is the case with India.


Right wing means different things in different countries.

Of course, I agree with your point of view. As far as elections go, right wing equates to religion and caste votebank in India. But with governance, the policies are almost similar to other right wing parties, the world over. During BJP's reign, they even managed to alienate their staunch supporters in VHP and BD with their moderate, centrist policies. During Kargil war, they even refused to cross the LOC. So much for their "ultra-nationalism"! Albeit, that had its advantages.

I repeat, there is no 'less govt, less regulations' policy of the right wingers in India. You are mistaking what you hear about US politics with what is happening in India.

Not exactly. During ABV's govt, there was a lot of deregulation going on. A lot of govt equities were dissolved and govt holdings in PSU's were sold off. Privatization took precedence over bailing out sick PSUs. Now is that aint lesser govt, then what is?

Besides very less government is already creating problems for Americans. Gun laws and gun crimes are only the tip of the iceberg.

Nope. There is no connection with 'less govt' and increase in gun related crimes. On the contrary, here, there is infact more govt than less - what with Obama being in office for the past 5 yrs! However, gun related crimes are a different thing altogether. I have very strong views on the topic, but lets leave that for another thread.

The right wingers of USA were earlier more with the Democratic party, when the party used to hoodwink to the racist states. After what JFK passed Civil Rights bill, the racists left the party in the anger and have now hijacked the Republican party.

Yes. Funny how Democrats were all for slavery and then segregation and yet, they now claim to be the saviors of the minorities.

 

[Manas]

BJP can n't win without Hindutva to overcome caste divide of among hindu voters.

It lost two elections because its was shy in promoting Hindutva vigorously, this is ugly truth.


Vajpayees betrayal to the hindu casue cost a defeat in 2004 and Advani was trying to be more secular than the congress with jinaah episode forced another defeat in 2009.

Governance is necessary , but that comes into play after winning elections. You play B team of congress , then expect hindus to vote for you raising above the caste divide is sheer fools paradise.

Unless BJP declares MODI as PM candidate i don't see its numbers increasing substantially.

If You want to rise in life , you have to gamble .By not gambling you are actually risking success.

 

[CZAR]

What is wrong if Modi draws a linkage between India and its Majority ? That is the very essence of democracy.

You would rather have it if a politician draws linkage between India and its Minority ? Is this what you meant by things that go 'unsaid' ?

If India First has to exist it has to be with the approval of the Majority ....where is the confusion there? how can it exist if the majority do no approve of it ? It makes no sense.

Are you insinuating that Muslims and Christians do not see 'India First' as their approach to life as an Indian citizen? They have 'Religion First' as their moto ?

If that is what you are claiming then hatred against the Hindus is already institutionalization in their society. That means disaster is only a few steps away....why blame Modi for this ....if not Modi then somebody else will step on this Minefield.

Modi is a man of strong convictions and strength of character who has come up in life the hard way, fighting with his back to the wall. There is nothing to suggest he will be an impotent PM. It would go against everything he has stood for, and that is highly unlikely.

I am afraid you have misunderstood what I had to say.

As you mentioned, the approval of the majority is crucial for a democracy. However, what is not in consonance with the idea of democracy is drawing the line distinguishing the majority from the minority along - religious lines.

Modi is not only proposing such a divide but appears to have championed the cause of those who border being termed, as I stated earlier, "hindu supremacists".

And no. Nowhere have I sought to propose that Muslims and Christians hold their religious identity on higher pedestal than the national identity. But one would assume that they would not back a skewed power-sharing formula that offers little assurance about being heard, especially coming from a persona non grata.

Hope this makes my position clear.

 

[Paan Singh]

In a Wall Street Journal poll on the Wharton snub issue, 92.5 per cent of nearly 5000 votes cast from around the world said the university had made a mistake in Modi's case.

Secularism to me means India first, Modi tells NRIs in US in his address- Politics News- Politics-IBNLive

 

[KRAIT]

@CZAR Read post # 89

And tell me what according to you happened in Gujarat, what was the condition pre-2002 and how the riots started, I mean why Muslims burned the train.

Tell me your sources from which you have come to a perception about Modi and Godhara.

I am not Modi Defender, I am one who looks the crime with all the aspects and psychological aspects.

I again ask you to Read about Mob Behavior and Riots Dynamics, read articles from International and trusted journals.
Also, read about the Communal History of Gujarat in the link I have posted.

I really want to make people look the Gujarat riots from rational and unbias POV rather than Emotional POV. Not based on what popular media with all the mirch masala and NGOs of Teesta Setalvad propagated to earn profit from pain of the victims of Riots.

 

[CZAR]

@CZAR Read post # 89

And tell me what according to you happened in Gujarat, what was the condition pre-2002 and how the riots started, I mean why Muslims burned the train.

Tell me your sources from which you have come to a perception about Modi and Godhara.

I am not Modi Defender, I am one who looks the crime with all the aspects and psychological aspects.

I again ask you to Read about Mob Behavior and Riots Dynamics, read articles from International and trusted journals.
Also, read about the Communal History of Gujarat in the link I have posted.

I really want to make people look the Gujarat riots from rational and unbias POV rather than Emotional POV. Not based on what popular media with all the mirch masala and BGOs of Teesta Setalvad propagated to earn profit from pain of the victims of Riots.

Thanks for the gesture. I'll need some time though. Cheers.