Muslim invasion created Dalits and tribals in India, says RSS

[Abu Zolfiqar]

These idiots have no idea about the caste system. They have no idea that initially caste system was put into place for purposes of governance and classifying the population. They have no idea that this system later became rigid and caste became a birth right!
I am pretty sure the first Muslim invaders into the subcontinent must have been very amused about the whole rigid caste system prevalent during the times!

sooner or later the brahmin elite should realize that caste system will lead to revolts....its part of human nature

"fight or flight"

 

[Indrani]

didnt create dalits or tribals

but rather, helps liberate them....and helped improve and upgrade their dietary habits

Rather they were busy creating eunachs. Entire army of eunachs were made by the Muslims both to lead in war as well as guard their harems full of captured Hindu women.

 

[gubbi]

The article is about formation of a Dalit class of out castes after the islamic invasion ........ but as usual you are too great a fool to even understand that.

What a pity I have to waste my time arguing with a fool who wants to drag me down to his level.

So the Dalits didnt exist before Islam came to the sub-continent? What about the whole untouchables in the society who were socially discriminated and ostracized?

sooner or later the brahmin elite should realize that caste system will lead to revolts....its part of human nature
"fight or flight"

Thats exactly why many people turned to Islam.

 

[Indrani]

sooner or later the brahmin elite should realize that caste system will lead to revolts....its part of human nature

"fight or flight"

It has been 6000+ years and waiting and still no revolt in sight. If anything a whole lot of Brahmins became atheists and communists, especially in places like West Bengal. The lower castes became even more staunch Brahmanical then.

So the Dalits didnt exist before Islam came to the sub-continent? What about the whole untouchables in the society who were socially discriminated and ostracized?

There were none except some chandalas. People who had been caste out of society due to criminal tendencies. Not unlike the whites criminals who got dumped in Australia to become the ancestors of current Australians.

 

[Indrani]

n i thought u were all busy n caught up defending dumb remarks from dumb ppl.
n bigoyry,,,well i thought u were graduating on that
aur ji ha agar mere pas quota hota(ya phir kisi ke pass bhi quota nahi hota)toh ab tak me PG student ho gaya hota,,fact

The only dumbs I saw here with the West Bengalis and a dumb and dumber couple talking about a shitty book The immortals of Meluha.

Do not blame others for your inadequacies. Most of the doctors in our system are from upper caste or higher class (money power). They did not cry about quota, so wonder why you are. Unless you mean to tell me that apart from Dalits no one else is getting into PG nowadays.

 

[jamahir]

Wo. That is certainly news to me. LOL. I had no idea we went into Korea. May be you can provide some references

1. Parachute Regiment (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The highlight of the tenure undoubtedly was when the unit provided their services during Operation Tomahawk on 21 March 1951 to the US Army’s 187 Airborne Regimental Combat Team for which the unit was awarded two Mahavir Chakras, one bar to Vir Chakra and six Vir Chakras. and a host of other Indian and international individual and unit decorations. These included the unit citations from the US and South Korean Army chiefs, commendations from the Commonwealth Division as well as the British commanders."

2. Seoul lauds India’s help in 1950 - The Times of India

to this secret war which India launched in Korea of all places when Nehru was denying his military even boots to wear.

so much exaggeration you make...

Was it not due to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait that the whole world sympathized with Kuwait and wanted to punish Iraq?

iraq's rightful invasion of kuwait was in 1990... 12 years before the 2003 invasion.

Was it not due to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait that the whole world sympathized with Kuwait and wanted to punish Iraq?

which "whole world"?? if the soviet union had not dissolved, the western invasion of iraq in 1990 would have been countered by soviet union and led to world war.

So? You mean to say you have never come across an aggressive Hindu speaker or writer? Pity.

no... just that i have never encountered females with your style of aggression which is quite rather like an indian college boy.

 

[gubbi]

What fear wrath of Gods? People all along were changing their religions from Jainism to Buddhism to Hinduism and later on to Islam, yet you speak of a fear of wrath of God? Why did this fear of wrath of Gods not stop people from changing religions or even experimenting with atheism to various sexual deviancy? In every society the lower strata emulates and follows the upper strata. If the upper strata of the society was changing religion without fear of wrath of Gods, then what makes you assume that lower castes would be held back by fear? Where did this fear go when majority of the Bengalis converted to Islam?

Let me clarify: Fear of the wrath of Gods was used to subdue majority of the people---be it the Kashtriyas, the Vaishyas or the Shudras. The Brahmins were the all powerful class in society who could control even the Kings!
That being said, once people started realizing that there are options available, they started converting or embracing other faiths. You do realize what this means, right?

If there were saints from all castes and all walks of life then where is the question of a rigid caste system? Who was persecuted? The lower castes do not have any memory of such persecution and to date refuse to leave their castes, when one would assume that they should be shunning their religion to escape persecution. So how do you explain the lower castes remaining staunch Hindus much to the chagrin of Marxists?

What has saints coming from all castes got to do with the discussion. The fact of the matter is even if some people revered as saints (which factually they were poets-saints-philosophers) were still identified by their caste speaks volumes about the rigidity of the caste system.

It seems to be a case of gullibility and desperation on the part of Marxists to see the lower castes as gullible and persecuted in their service of Abrahamic faiths?

Who you calling Marxist?

People did do occupation based on caste but was it rigid? How did Shivaji become a king then? Was he born a Kshatriya? How were there Queens and various tribal Kingdoms too?

Yes, caste system was and is rigid. Even in present day.
Btw, Shivaji was born into a Maratha family- a warrior family/class. Pray what does that make him?
And as for tribal kings and queens, arent you confusing 'low caste' Hindus with ethnically distinct tribes? Different ball game altogether. If it werent so, Constitution of India wouldnt have specifically mentioned Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes.

Much of the social reformers came in during the Muslim era. Which is exactly what RSS is talking about. A society under siege and war with much of its intellectuals killed, wont undergo transformation? Wont develop distortions to their beliefs and society?

This because, atleast in Islam, when it first came to India, everyone was equal in the eyes of the God! People started realizing the importance of this, and that is why you had social reformers who wanted to do away with the prevalent ills of the society like Sati, untouchability, discrimination of 'lower castes' etc..
RSS is simply spouting idiocy. So if social reformers came in during the Muslim era, does that mean the social ills were not present earlier? No way!

 

[Levina]

Maa sadqay,I am surprised

I was kidding.

 

[JammuWarrior]

sooner or later the brahmin elite should realize that caste system will lead to revolts....its part of human nature

"fight or flight"

 

[Indrani]

1. Parachute Regiment (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The highlight of the tenure undoubtedly was when the unit provided their services during Operation Tomahawk on 21 March 1951 to the US Army’s 187 Airborne Regimental Combat Team for which the unit was awarded two Mahavir Chakras, one bar to Vir Chakra and six Vir Chakras. and a host of other Indian and international individual and unit decorations. These included the unit citations from the US and South Korean Army chiefs, commendations from the Commonwealth Division as well as the British commanders."
2. Seoul lauds India’s help in 1950 - The Times of India

LOL. "Shedding light on India's role in the Korean war, the president said, "Korea was fortunate to have India, the source of an ancient and noble civilization, as a friend during the war." While India's participation in the war on behalf of the south is not well known, Lee recalled the role of 60th parachute field ambulance platoon with a staff of 627 medical personnel."

So a team of doctors and medical personnel is what you call participation in war.

iraq's rightful invasion of kuwait was in 1990... 12 years before the 2003 invasion.

India was opposed to 2003 attack on Iraq.

which "whole world"?? if the soviet union had not dissolved, the western invasion of iraq in 1990 would have been countered by soviet union and led to world war.

I doubt it. Almost the entire world was opposed to Iraq then. If anything Russians were trying to get into West's good books then and were much enamored of Western capitalism.

no... just that i have never encountered females with your style of aggression which is quite rather like an indian college boy.

Well I do not know what you are speaking about since I have never spent time analyzing Indian college boy's writings. Most of them come across as dumb to me and seem to have no interest in Indian sociopolitical scene, leave alone Hinduism and stuff.

 

[JammuWarrior]

LOL. "Shedding light on India's role in the Korean war, the president said, "Korea was fortunate to have India, the source of an ancient and noble civilization, as a friend during the war." While India's participation in the war on behalf of the south is not well known, Lee recalled the role of 60th parachute field ambulance platoon with a staff of 627 medical personnel."

So a team of doctors and medical personnel is what you call participation in war.




India was opposed to 2003 attack on Iraq.




I doubt it. Almost the entire world was opposed to Iraq then. If anything Russians were trying to get into West's good books then and were much enamored of Western capitalism.



Well I do not know what you are speaking about since I have never spent time analyzing Indian college boy's writings. Most of them come across as dumb to me and seem to have no interest in Indian sociopolitical scene, leave alone Hinduism and stuff.

Why are you bothering to reply to this pseudo intellectual hypocrite? Insults Hinduism while living in a Hindu majority country and complains of Hindu intolerance.

 

[halupridol]

The only dumbs I saw here with the West Bengalis and a dumb and dumber couple talking about a shitty book The immortals of Meluha.

Do not blame others for your inadequacies. Most of the doctors in our system are from upper caste or higher class (money power). They did not cry about quota, so wonder why you are. Unless you mean to tell me that apart from Dalits no one else is getting into PG nowadays.

u got comprehension issues,,,i said i wish i had quota....where did i say dalits getting pg,,.or anythng about any section of society,me sirf apni baat kar raha tha.
most of our doctors r from upper caste
what about the 50% ,who get admission through quotas
u mean to say they ain't docs,,ya phir degree lene ke baad cricket khelne chale jatey hae ....dimaag pe thora jor lagao,glucose khao
btw i find meluha books to be interesting,,,n discussing thm gives me pleasure,,n its better thn discussing(or namecalling ma Behan,like ur frnd does)
.so plz spare me ur rhetoric,,n keep on defending those dumb comments by those dumb ppl

 

[utraash]

can anyone tell me why all the indian members of this forum are either brahman or from related superior castes?

any dalit/shurdas around?

Yes me ... No sin has touched me remain untouchable........

 

[Indrani]

Let me clarify: Fear of the wrath of Gods was used to subdue majority of the people---be it the Kashtriyas, the Vaishyas or the Shudras. The Brahmins were the all powerful class in society who could control even the Kings!
That being said, once people started realizing that there are options available, they started converting or embracing other faiths. You do realize what this means, right?

No, I do not know where you got your history from, but that is certainly not Indian history you are speaking of. Brahmins were bhikshuks for the most part. Without wealth or property or arms. Very few became Kings and there was no subjugation because there was always a climate of debate in the society. From questioning the nature of god to nature of society, nothing was left undebated. That is where so many isms were born in India. This does not happen in a climate of fear. Fear results in monolithic society like the Catholic Church had. Also Jainism and Buddhism go 2000+ years in Indian history with huge populations being Jainas or Buddhists who were patronized by the Hindu kings. Again, not a sign of subjugation and fear and monopoly.

What has saints coming from all castes got to do with the discussion. The fact of the matter is even if some people revered as saints (which factually they were poets-saints-philosophers) were still identified by their caste speaks volumes about the rigidity of the caste system.

Rather it does the opposite. That Indians could see holy in everyone and every caste. That holiness was not confined to the so called upper caste. It speaks of magnanimity of the Hindu society rather than the opposite. Had it been any other religion, they would have been put to death.

Who you calling Marxist?

Your arguments are the same as what the Marxists have been peddling in India.

Yes, caste system was and is rigid. Even in present day.
Btw, Shivaji was born into a Maratha family- a warrior family/class. Pray what does that make him?
And as for tribal kings and queens, arent you confusing 'low caste' Hindus with ethnically distinct tribes? Different ball game altogether. If it werent so, Constitution of India wouldnt have specifically mentioned Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes.

Marathas were not warriors, rather they were Sudhras, peasants. There is no history of any kingdoms from the Marathas before the coming of Shivaji. So no he was no Kshatriya. He crowned himself one in opposition to the prevailing caste sentiments at that time.

No I am not confusing, rather you are. The caste system remained the same with 4 varnas regardless of the tribe in India. Every group in India is ethnically distinct, but followed the same caste pattern. So there was kings and queens in every ethnicity, every language group. Even today a lower caste from one part of India can go to another part of India and assume a different identity which no one will be any wiser about. Or are you claiming that every group in India knew about the caste names of all groups in India?

Constitution of India was written by people influenced by colonial rule and take on history. That is where the attempt to re-write our history comes in and a huge section of today's population are clamouring for it.
.

This because, atleast in Islam, when it first came to India, everyone was equal in the eyes of the God! People started realizing the importance of this, and that is why you had social reformers who wanted to do away with the prevalent ills of the society like Sati, untouchability, discrimination of 'lower castes' etc..
RSS is simply spouting idiocy. So if social reformers came in during the Muslim era, does that mean the social ills were not present earlier? No way!

False. The Indian Muslims never had the station of the Turkic or Afghani Muslims. The Bhakti movements started in wake of destruction of temples in large scale. The Bhakti movements were about love of God and knowledge of Vedas in an atmosphere where temples building and worship was difficult. Throughout Indian history there were only 300+ cases of Sati documented in India. Apart from West Bengal and Orissa, there was hardly any Sati anywhere else in India. There are tales after tales of widowed queens and warriors and saints. So there was no social reformers except in WB during colonial times who spoke again Sati.

Whatever social ills may have been present earlier were at least not due to caste system.

 

[utraash]

Why are you bothering to reply to this pseudo intellectual hypocrite? Insults Hinduism while living in a Hindu majority country and complains of Hindu intolerance.

Have you ever seen caste discrimination in your real life ? Being a Brahmin by birth I have seen it numerous times.... Have you heard a low caste people never try enter in the kitchens of Brahmins? Have you ever come across when separate que for certain people(low caste) in any function like marriage n so on.... Sametime younger generation not buying this caste system so will eradicate rapidly..... I am firm believer any discrimination among human has no place in human world.......
Acknowledging casteism was part of our social practice does not dent "Sanatan Philosophy" before the arrival of Islam....