Musharraf’s plan to divide Kashmir: Sultan

[Contrarian]

lets all get back to the topic...Mushy's plant to divide kashmir.

 

[MirBadshah]

Bull< if the looters came and looted you, you would have fought back, not complaining after a full century.

 

[Adux]

I think we can discuss history some time to make things more clear, obviously we know more then these white guys. Why not to open a seperate thread?

Why such a generalization, lets give them due credit. From Electercity to Internet and English Language we are using, are from the White man.

 

[Adux]

Bull< if the looters came and looted you, you would have fought back, not complaining after a full century.

Maybe you guys should stop complaining about the crusades then as well as Israel.Its half a century already in case of Israel and lots more till the last crusades

 

[MirBadshah]

Personally I dont like crying and complaining.

One must stand up, fight and win, now if some kids can not do that, then accept the things, make yourdelf strong and give it another try.

 

[BATMAN]

lets all get back to the topic...Mushy's plant to divide kashmir.

Hey big mouth!
Musharaf is the President of Pakistan :flag: and mind it.
I can also change the names of Hindi leaders.

Now lets get back and tell us what is this divide plan any way?

As far my limited knowledge is concerned he made suggestions like: softening of the Line of Control, demilitarisation, self-governance or joint management of the disputed territory.

This bold peace initiative is widely hailed by all Indian Kashmiri leaders.

http://www2.dw-world.de/southasia/india/1.175983.1.html

Also, tell us what is the solution from your President, sorry I forgot his name.

 

[Bull]

Aristobulus of Cassandreia, a Greek historian who traveled to India with the expedition of Alexander of Macedon, recorded the practice of sati at the city of Taxila. A later instance of voluntary co-cremation appears in an account of an Indian soldier in the army of Eumenes of Cardia, whose two wives vied to die on his funeral pyre, in 316 BCE. The Greeks believed that the practice had been instituted to discourage wives from poisoning their husbands.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suttee

I know we are going offtopic here but let me just get this clarified. Sati is performed by the widow of the dead soldier. So whats the logic of poisoning? Whom would she poison?

 

[Bull]

Bull< if the looters came and looted you, you would have fought back, not complaining after a full century.

The point is that you are celebrating their names by naming your missiles after them. The very people who killed and raped your women.

 

[Bull]

Hey big mouth!
Musharaf is the President of Pakistan :flag: and mind it.
I can also change the names of Hindi leaders.

Now lets get back and tell us what is this divide plan any way?

As far my limited knowledge is concerned he made suggestions like: softening of the Line of Control, demilitarisation, self-governance or joint management of the disputed territory.

This bold peace initiative is widely hailed by all Indian Kashmiri leaders.

http://www2.dw-world.de/southasia/india/1.175983.1.html

Also, tell us what is the solution from your President, sorry I forgot his name.

Pakistan has been desperatly trying to tone down the Kashmiri issue with a host of Mushraff's mind boggling plans. Insurgency is not felt the same way it was a couple of years ago.

Good work from pakistan who decided to stem the flow of insurgents into Kashmir ???

I would say no, they are more worried about their western borders now. They need more resources than ever before to look after their western borders and provinces. They anfford to have two volatile fronts. All these years Pakistan's advantage was that they need to look only east, but now things have changed and hence the change of tactics from pakistan.

I say, just kill time, let pakistan feel even more cornered so that we get a muchy better deal.

 

[dabong1]

I know we are going offtopic here but let me just get this clarified. Sati is performed by the widow of the dead soldier. So whats the logic of poisoning? Whom would she poison?

Bro i never bought sati into the debate Adux did.
He was telling me that sati came into the hindu faith becauce of the muslim invasion of india,but from what i read on the net and the example from wiki the practice pre dates islam.

 

[dabong1]

Francois Gautier

Where's India's holocaust museum?

October 21, 2003


The massacre of 6 million Jews by Hitler and the persecution Jews suffered all over the world in the last 15 centuries has been meticulously recorded by the Jews after 1945 and has been enshrined not only in history books, but also in Holocaust museums, the most famous one being in Washington, DC.


We would also like to start another exhibition on forced Christian conversions in the Northeast. Ultimately, we would like to build a Hindu/ Sikh/Buddhist Indian Holocaust Museum based in New Delhi, or in Bangalore. It will record not only the genocide of Hindus Sikhs and Buddhists at the hands of Muslim invaders, but also the terrible persecution of the Portuguese (hardly mentioned in Indian history books) and British -- nobody knows for instance that 20 million Indians died of famine between 1815 and 1920, because the English broke the agricultural backbone of India to get raw materials like cotton, jute etc.

We need your support for this Indian Holocaust Museum.

Francois Gautier Mmmm sounds very french maybe a unbiased opinion of a european.....maybe but not quite.

Francois Gautier He is married to Namrita, an Indian and has lived in India for the past 33 years.
He came to India at the age of 19 and spent his first eight years in India in the Sri Aurobindo ashram in Pondicherry.
He has written many books on Hinduism, and on Indian politics and Hindutva.
He is also the head of an organization FACT (Forum Against Continued Terrorism an organization highlighting the plight of terror victims in Kashmir and Bangladesh.



Francois Gautier

Before going into the Muslim invasions in India, it would be worthwhile to cast a sympathetic look at Islam: why it sprang-up; how it immediately went out in the world with a missionary zeal, unsurpassed in the history of religions; its genius, its beauty, its relevance today; but also the limitations and drawbacks of the world's most militant faith. These are questions best answered by Muslims themselves, although the author does not necessarily agree with all the views expounded here.

Why Islam ? Islam was a cry against the tortured atmosphere of Christianity, an answer to its perpetual ethos of suffering and its propensity to nail its saviours on the cross. Christianity is the first enemy of Islam, although in a sense, both religions are complementary. Why did Europeans succeed in stopping the Arab onslaught, while at the same time Arabs managed to enter India again and again and again? (French King Charles Martel beat Arab armies in 732 in Poitiers, 300 kms away from Paris. If this battle has been lost, the whole of Europe, might have been Muslim today) Because the Kshatryia class had become weak. The warriors of India had become arrogant, degenerate in their clinging to power and the true spirit of the Kshatriyas had been lost for the centuries to come, except in a few Rajput, Sikh or Mahrattis, like Shivaji. But the Arabs were khsatriyas: they were fired by the zeal to do Allah's work, unafraid of death. They were a young warrior class. But why this extraordinary ferocity of Arabs in India? This brutal zeal to conquer, this militancy to convert by the scimitar is " Jihad ", holy war. It is the giving of oneself to the expansion of the Infinite, Allah, the only one. There is also a beauty in that kind of violence. What is the genius of Islam ? Islam does not kill the soul of a country. It assimilates its culture, as it did in India; take the zero for instance, which was invented by Hindus: Arabs took it up, developed it and made of it a full-fledged mathematics system, which from India travelled all through the Arab empire and reached Europe, thanks to Arab colonisation. Or take the Advaita, which they blended with Islam and transformed into Sufism, probably the most enlightened, mystical branch of Islam. You know, each Muslim has a direct contact with his God, each one is a servant of god and there are no intermediaries like in Hinduism with its idols and gods. It is a religion of the individual, for the individual; each one can thus lead prayers and become in effect a mullah; thus there is no Brahmin class in Islam, no monasteries, no churches. And this is what makes it so popular in the 20th century, why so many Muslims and non-Muslims, disillusioned with western society and its evils are going back to the fundamentals of Islam.

What is the strength of Islam? Islam is a religion of force, it is in the Arab temperament, borne out of the hardship and beauty of the desert and its nomad life. Muslims are devout soldiers; their savagery is not gratuitous, it is the fire of Allah which burns in them. Not the meekness of the Buddhist, which opened India to invasions; not the guiltiness of the Christians which has hampered all western civilisation, but the spirit of might. Why did Islam crush Hinduism so mercilessly ? Hindus adore images and stone Gods and it makes them the number one enemy of Islam. For did not the Prophet say: " thou shalt not worship stone idols "? Thus Arabs, when they invaded India, did not feel guilty when they killed Hindus; on the contrary, it was an obligation, a holy duty. Why the hardening of Islam today, the harping on returning to the shariat, which seems maladjusted to today's modern world ? It is the refusal by the Muslim world to be swallowed by the grey uniform, soul-killing materialism of the West. The unconscious fear of losing one's Muslim identity in the face of the onslaught of the modern, atheist world. Even the burqua is a returning to a fundamental that have baffled all religion: the mystery of the woman, its destabilising effects on men. Hindus themselves forbid women in certain temples; or consider them impure when they are menstruating; or even do not allow them to read the Veda. Why should Islam be judged on the Burqa issue? It may be something that shocks the West, but Islam is not the burqa alone ! And look at what happened in the West with the liberalisation of women: it led to the break-up of the family system and brought in a perverse sexuality. And finally, which is better: wearing a burqa while maintaining one's identity, or finishing as a servant in some western bourgeois home with no dignity left? Moreover, Muslims all over the world feel they are attacked from every corner, whether in Bosnia, Kashmir, Palestine, or Chechnya. And this leads to an entrenched paranoia. What are the qualities of Islam today ? Charity first and foremost. Contrary to the Hindus, who although they are generous people individually, are not concerned by the welfare of their less fortunate brethren - witness the abject poverty in India - Islam cares for their own. It is enough for a Muslim to say " Salam u alli kum " anywhere in the world and be treated like a brother, fed, clothed and sometimes helped financially. They all belong to the Ouma, the great universal Muslim brotherhood. Also the pure of Islam do not smoke, do not take drugs, do not drink alcohol; and this also encourages Muslims leaders all over the world to reimpose the shariat in their countries. After all, if India imposes dry law in some of her states, nobody has anything to says. Islam does it in the name of Allah instead of that of N.T. Rama Rao! The motto of Islam ? You deal with your material life as if you're going to live eternally; and with your spiritual life as if you are going to die tomorrow ". The best of Islam today ? Without doubt the great mosque of Casablanca, recently completed, symbolises what is most luminous in Islam today and stands as an example of a Muslim nation which has (so far) managed to retain the positive qualities of Islam, while adapting itself to the western world. Each artisan has recreated the splendour of ancient Muslim handicrafts: sculpture, paintings, marble inlay... It's a people's work; every Moroccan has contributed money, however small an amount, for the finishing of the mosque; it is thus a collective work which embodies all the love of beauty inherent in Islam and its moderation. There, after having washed oneself, one can in pray in an atmosphere of peace. What Islam borrowed from Hinduism ? Sufism of course, which adopted some of the beauty of Indu India. Mogol architecture, which retained the perfect symmetry of Muslim linear design, while achieving infinite humanity. Hindustan music, enchanting to the ear...But overall, above everything, Islam in India borrowed the Shakti concept of Hinduism. Look at the Islamic countries surrounding India today. They are all governed by women ! Is it not a proof that deep inside him, the Bangladeshi or the Pakistani (or the Sri Lankan for that matter), are still worshipers of the eternal shakti principle: " without her you do not manifest ". Is it not also proof that deep at heart they are still Indians, Indus? About Indian Muslims They can never really be integrated to India, because the philosophy of Islam the essence of its message is in total contradiction with what Hinduism represents. Nevertheless, they are there to stay About Pakistan. Pakistan embodies the fundamental contradiction of the subcontinent, for it symbolises the fact that Islam always refused to be synthesised, absorbed, transmuted by Hinduism as all other religions in India were over a period of time, whether Christianity, Buddhism or Jainism. But Pakistan also prepares the future greatness of India, because the day where the two nations are reunited they will stand as individual entities, with their own culture, own religion; own soul. But for that, Pakistan and Bangladesh will have to recognise their fundamental " Indianness ".



http://www.nalanda.nitc.ac.in/resources/english/etext-project/history/gautier/

 

[dabong1]

APHC won’t attend India’s Kashmir meeting

SRINAGAR: Kashmir’s separatist political alliance said on Thursday it would not take part in a meeting planned by New Delhi to find a solution to the revolt in the Himalayan region unless militant groups and Pakistan attend.

Most political separatists, including the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, stayed away last year from two similar Kashmir “roundtable” meetings, an avenue for talks promoted by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

“Hurriyat will participate in the roundtable conference only if it is meant for discussing the Kashmir issue, but it should include Mujahideen and leaders from India, Pakistan and both parts of Kashmir,” said Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, chairman of the larger moderate faction of the Hurriyat conference.

The third roundtable will be held in New Delhi on April 24, chaired by Singh. “Talks on (the) Kashmir dispute can be only held with the heirs of the martyrs and not with everybody,” Farooq, the chief Muslim cleric of the Kashmir Valley, said.

The first two such meetings in February and May 2006 made no headway as mainly pro-Indian parties and groups attended them. Separatists stayed away, saying they did not want to share a platform with leaders or parties who had already agreed Kashmir was an integral part of India.

“We fail to understand the logic of inviting pro-India parties who do not question Kashmir’s accession to India,” said Mohammad Yasin Malik, chief of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF), another separatist group. “We have decided not to attend.” reuters