Musharraf’s plan to divide Kashmir: Sultan

[Bushroda]

How about all the three parties India/Pak/Kashmir taking a break and reapproaching the problem in a decade's time? Probably fresh thoughts might infuse some sort of solution. In the mean while, India & Pak can work towards improving bilateral trade & cultural ties so that people from both sides get to understand eachother better. It definately helps solving the problem when all the parties involved understand eachother's concerns better. At the moment, Indians consider Pak to be a terrorist state & Pak considers India as a tyrant in Kashmir. With so much of misunderstanding between two prime parties trying to introduce any solution is fruitless as none of them would be honest & committed towards the cause.

 

[Contrarian]

dabong, if Kashmir breaks away from India, there will be no Indian Union. Many other states will break away, there would be rioting and massacres on a scale never seen before. You must understand the politics of India. Without Kashmir, India wont survive like it is now. Secularism would be made a mockery of in India. This is an honest assesment of the situation. Kashmir is vital for India, not just in terms of its strategic location, but for the well being of entire India herself.

 

[MirBadshah]

Mir,

you obivisouly are making a mountain out of a ant hill. Suicides yes, it is happening, Maoist, Nothing to do with the Army. All these problems will not make the IA re-deploy.
These time are the best for our government as well as people, we have people who are dis-satisfied, some rightly so. Pakistan doing very well isnt it, it still has the Balochistan problem.

Other than IA re-deploying cuz of Internal problems how can you solve this kashmir problem from a Pakistani POV

It is not me who is saying this, it is your PM who have catagorically said that NAXAL is the biggest threat to India's national security. They control 14 states and have killed 11,000 people.

Now tell me, who are MAOISTS? These are oppressed classes of India, the former head is IB have said that MAOISTS are batter then corrupt politicians.

Why dont you admit that there is a problem and it is serious, the reasons are economic, people dont want misiles, they are desperate for bread and getting to MAOISTS against the opperssion.

Police in India is clearly stating that they are unable to control law and order any more as they are busy fighting insurgancy, how long you can fight on every front?

You have to decide, if you continue occupation of Kashmir, you have to pay the price in some other place.

BTW, this thread was the stupid statement of Sultan Mahmood.

 

[Adux]

Mir,

Why is it all about admission, submission etc
You are confused?
If you want me to say India will pay a heavy price for Kashmir, Here you go "India will pay a heavy price".

My advice, You are underestimating your adversary, so that the picture you want to see is rosy.
Maoist are a big problem, They are the 'poor people' not the 'oppressed people'. India needs missiles cuz we have Pakistan and China. India will not leave Kashmir, What I think about it is irrelevent, but GOI wont leave it. I could throw in Pakistan and its problems here, but i wont? That my friend is the difference.

 

[MirBadshah]

ALright, but its discussion, tell me how India is going to continue the occupation of kashmir and for how long?

 

[Adux]

Mir,

We dont consider it an occupation, we considers Azad Kashmir as occupied Land. I am not here to debate the veracity claims, since that will only hurl mud at each other without anything productive coming out of it.

India will never let Kashmir go, No Indian government can, or will they do it, nor will they allowed to do it. Kashmir is very important to us.

What Neo and Me were discussing which is along the lines of musharraf, was that Two countries powerful enough not to let the other country invade and occupy lands. Therefore some other way by which India and Pakistan keep the lands they occupy but let the people interact from both sides of the border. I dont know how that is going to work, I am not very thrilled about it either but that seems the only way.

 

[MirBadshah]

Mir,

Therefore some other way by which India and Pakistan keep the lands they occupy but let the people interact from both sides of the border. QUOTE]


You want to find a solution of something but you are not ready to talk what that issue is and why it is necessasry to solve, i put my questions again;

1. What is the "Kashmir" issue infact.

2. Whay it is necessary to find some ways to solve it,

3. What, if it is not solved?

So, before you jump to find solution, let us be clear what this is all about.

 

[su-47]

The problem with the kashmir issue is that neither India and pakistan will let go. It is way more than an issue of land. Its an issue of the pride of these nations.

The Indians are convinved that the pakistanis are the wongful occupiers and vice versa. so nil one party changes their view or backs down a bit, kashmir issue will go on.

 

[MirBadshah]

How would that happen, please explain further, why dont we go to accept UN resolutions, if issue is that serious?

 

[Adux]

For the UN resolutions to happen, Pakistan has to Withdraw from Azad Kashmir according to it. Pakistan doesnt trust India therefore wouldnt withdraw,

 

[dabong1]

dabong, if Kashmir breaks away from India, there will be no Indian Union..

Bro correct me if i am wrong but kashmir never was part of the union of india at the start and india survived.

Many other states will break away, there would be rioting and massacres on a scale never seen before...

The other states you refer to fighting in india i would say are more along the line of balochistan that they want more state rights rather then total independence.

Secularism would be made a mockery of in India. This is an honest assesment of the situation. Kashmir is vital for India, not just in terms of its strategic location, but for the well being of entire India herself.

Kashmir itself is fighting for a secular state and i am sure if india wanted to it could find a soultion.If i may give a few that answer your concerns.

1. indian kashmir stays in the union of india
2 pak kashmir joins federation of pakistan
3 Kashmiri from the indian side have indian passports and kashmir passports
4 kashmiris from pakistani side have pakistani passport and kashmiri passport
5 Free acess/trade to either side of kashmir for kashmiris with kashmir passport.
6 kashmir flag is flown in kashmir no pak/indian flag.
7 joint police force of kashmir

any other suggestions or problem solvers?

 

[Contrarian]

Bro correct me if i am wrong but kashmir never was part of the union of india at the start and india survived.

The other states you refer to fighting in india i would say are more along the line of balochistan that they want more state rights rather then total independence.

No mate. If Kashmir breaks away, i assure, there would be serious religious rioting throughout India, and on a scale never seen before. Kashmir represents the secularity of India in essence. If India cannot provide for the Muslims in Kashmir, and has to let it go, then this would be tantamount to declaring India as a Hindu nation to all the harliner politcians. For eg: Modi, CM of Gujarat.

India was born at the time you mention, and wasnt there rioting?
Thats just the reality. That is exactly what would happen.

Kashmir itself is fighting for a secular state and i am sure if india wanted to it could find a soultion.If i may give a few that answer your concerns.

1. indian kashmir stays in the union of india
2 pak kashmir joins federation of pakistan
3 Kashmiri from the indian side have indian passports and kashmir passports
4 kashmiris from pakistani side have pakistani passport and kashmiri passport
5 Free acess/trade to either side of kashmir for kashmiris with kashmir passport.
6 kashmir flag is flown in kashmir no pak/indian flag.
7 joint police force of kashmir

any other suggestions or problem solvers?

All is good. except that Indian flag/Pakistani flag should be flown in the respective territories. Joint police force is also not feasble. There would be the issue of favouritism, allegations etc etc between Indian and Pakistani police forces in the area, that would make them ineffective.

 

[Adux]

I am rather enjoying this discussion, I can see ideas flowing, Maybe we should write to Musharraf

 

[pak_army]

well MUsharaf can't afford to go against the wishes of Kashmiris masses...

If freedom struggle continues for some time more it might pay off...for how long would Indian army suppress it???
there no denial of the fact that sucide rate is increasing among indian soldiers in kashmir...they can't go like this for long...
the worst case senario for india would be if pak/india relations worsen than pak would again start infiltrating Mujahidins in Indian Occupied Kashmir,the freedom struggle would gain strength and would attract the world attention incresing the pressure on India....

 

[Neo]

According to the UN resolution Pakistan has to pull out first, Which Pakistan wont cuz it dis-trust India. India doesnt reconginze Pakistan claim in the first place cuz of the accession treaty and British Partition Formula, You will not see a peblicite in kashmir.

According to the same resolution India has to reduce her troops to 18.000 which she refused to do resulting in Pakistan's refusal to pull out completely.
This is a fact.