Musharraf predicts PMLN and PPP to win 2018 election

[Flash_Ninja]

He divided the opposition. He showed ultra lack of basic politics, when he announced boycott in 2008 elections.

There was no judiciary, Pakistan was in crisis, it was an honorable thing to do.

He very well could have been PM today, but reality is he will never be PM unless US want him in power.

So you dont like him because he isnt in the Americans pockets? His anti-imperialist positions is exactly why he is better than the alternatives.

He has no policy, no plan and according to rules of life... no plan=plan to fail. He will surely sink Pakistan.

Why do you say that, PTI has pretty clear positions and in the next year or so they will develop a manifesto and positions like they did in the last elections.

According to Pakistan's current law PM is has dictatorial powers. Such may be good in sane hands, which he's not.

So what, you prefer the alternative of having Zardari or Nawaz in such a dictatorial postion?

Atleast with a PTI government there would be transparency and input from the public, like they have done in KPK. I dont know if they will add constitutional reforms into their manifesto, but it is far more likely to come from hem than PPP or PMLN.

He will surely hurt Pakistan from point of no return and will blame it on Army.

You mean like Nawaz is doing right now? or like when Zardari single handedly destroyed the Army's image?

IK again and again supports the military to the point where his opponents accuse him of being in their pocket, why on earth would he try and blame a hypothetical issue on the army?

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

I want to interfere in the debate. NRO was definitely signed between Mush and ppp but it was done to help PMLN (nawaz). the very reason why army allowed nawaz to come back because they want PPP out from the race and push PMLN to made government with the help q league but BB assassination changes the plan. It was obvious that why mush destroying his own q league, but not for the sake of PPP no way but only helping PMLN. Now we have a question why Mush tried to help Nawaz? it was because security establishment thinks that BB was a security risk and Nawaz was a pro pakistan and we have seen how our establishment ridiculed PPP under Zardari and paved ways for nawaz to win elections. and if you saw the outcomes of the result of 2013 you come to realise now that PTI cuts PPP votes and nothing else. And Mush knows that and that is why he is now saying that PMLN will form government again because he knows the game and he was part of the plan. PPP also knows that and for the sake of shutting their mouth Sindh was handover to them and will handover to them, if you look at the sindh, Functional league which is always part of establishment their politicians resigning Functional league and joining PPP because they knows the plan. Some of the politicians who are very close to establishment are Ismail rahu (Ex PML), Imtiaz shaikh(Big political figure of functional league) and jam family of sanghar joins PPP. they were always oppose PPP under the establishment umbrella. Breaking of MQM was a must case because current census would make sure that karachi and hyderabads population will be higher and so that they have a higher number of seats compared to interior sindh so MQM could have a good chance to win in Sindh and so they decided to broke the mqm.

Again, this could be your opinion. However, I would disagree to some extent. As I had said, NRO was initially meant for PPP. Before the negotiations kicked off for NRO, BB and Noora had formed the alliance already. They were backing each other against Mushy. It was BB that brought Noora in the NRO. Establishment wanted PPP government and Zardara knew it. He murdered her to steal the party and be powerful. To do so, he formed coalition government with Noora initially and then Noora knew he had a great opportunity to screw PPP for once and all that's why he backed off from Federal government and had let Zardara work all alone. Zardara offered an alliance to Q league who had nothing under their control. To save their bastard ministry hungry kuttas MNAs they accepted the offer but got raped again because Kuttas had decided to lick balls of Noora. Same kuttas have joined PTI. Its very simple these kuttas are rolling stones and they all have assembled in PTI. This is the reason why PTI can never be sound Politically. They need strong politicians. Solo flight won't help Imran achieve anything. He couldn;t get anything out of Panama which is so very clear and against Noora. It's his failure that this matter has been dragged till so long.

 

[Syed Mukkarram]

Again, this could be your opinion. However, I would disagree to some extent. As I had said, NRO was initially meant for PPP. Before the negotiations kicked off for NRO, BB and Noora had formed the alliance already. They were backing each other against Mushy. It was BB that brought Noora in the NRO. Establishment wanted PPP government and Zardara knew it. He murdered her to steal the party and be powerful. To do so, he formed coalition government with Noora initially and then Noora knew he had a great opportunity to screw PPP for once and all that's why he backed off from Federal government and had let Zardara work all alone. Zardara offered an alliance to Q league who had nothing under their control. To save their bastard ministry hungry kuttas MNAs they accepted the offer but got raped again because Kuttas had decided to lick balls of Noora. Same kuttas have joined PTI. Its very simple these kuttas are rolling stones and they all have assembled in PTI. This is the reason why PTI can never be sound Politically. They need strong politicians. Solo flight won't help Imran achieve anything. He couldn;t get anything out of Panama which is so very clear and against Noora. It's his failure that this matter has been dragged till so long.

You have every right to argue and i respect your opinion but sorry there are huge loopholes in it. and the above story is for the common people.

NRO was never meant for PPP because if that was the case then why BB case was opened in supreme court thanks to Iftikhar chodhury (we all know how chodhry destroys ppp helped nawaz and nawaz helped Chodhry for restoration with the help of phone call by army chief) By the way I am PTI supporter.

Why zardari offered Shujat for alliance because he knows that pervaiz ilahi will not accept nawaz leadership which all q league members would do,

PTI helped nawaz to destroy PPP, few politicians joins PTI because remaining huge lot was ready to join PMLN and they all joined PMLN and PTI on advise. so the question why it was happened like that, it was because people could clearly see the tilt of establishment. So PTI took the blame and PMLN won the game.

Whether Imran take solo flieght aur alliance it will not help him. if he really want to win election, then he has to win Punjab by destroying PMLN almost. question is how he can? he needs to buy every MNA's and MPA's of punjab and that is it.

You talking about alliance, tell me the party who may help PTI to won election, ANP= No because ANP is their competitor in KPK, PPP= No because PPP will out shadow PTI, Musharaf= he has nobody in his party and no constituency, MQM/PSP= yes it might e their partners because no direct competition like ANP, not a big party like PPP and definitely have a constituency in Karachi and hyderabad Unlike musharaff..

 

[BATMAN]

I lack time... so I will be short in reply.

There was no judiciary, Pakistan was in crisis, it was an honorable thing to do.

There was appointed Chief justice and courts were working as normal.

So you dont like him because he isnt in the Americans pockets? His anti-imperialist positions is exactly why he is better than the alternatives.

he's in American pockets or not, this is something we can't control or detect.
So far his politics have only helped imperialists, so what matters is ground reality.

Why do you say that, PTI has pretty clear positions and in the next year or so they will develop a manifesto and positions like they did in the last elections.

I say because, PTI is 100% occupied with NS and is also keeping nation and army occupied.
PTI failed to plan for elections of opposition leader, which was as simple as 1+1
They were simply hanging on to the leads/ opportunities created by Sheikh Rashid.

So what, you prefer the alternative of having Zardari or Nawaz in such a dictatorial postion?

If I have two choose between 3 than yes most certainly, and I pick NS.
Simply because NS is less dangerous because of his unpopularity. I feel more safe, when Army is most popular, because I have zero trust on politicians.

Atleast with a PTI government there would be transparency and input from the public, like they have done in KPK. I dont know if they will add constitutional reforms into their manifesto, but it is far more likely to come from hem than PPP or PMLN.

We'll see transparency when he comes to power.
Constitutional reforms helps no one, actually it only hurts economy of state and eventually its people.
What is required from him is his clear position before elections, on regional affairs, future development plan, energy policy, his views on Kalabagh dam, his views about army, his resolve to bring culprits of money laundering to azad adlia, I personally would like to see reversing names of national assets i.e. Peshawar Airport and Islamabad Airport etc.

You mean like Nawaz is doing right now? or like when Zardari single handedly destroyed the Army's image?

Do not put words in my mouth... BTW, Pakistani politicians always have multiple foreign states/ agencies doing the thinking and backing for them, they are never alone, so was Zardari.

IK again and again supports the military to the point where his opponents accuse him of being in their pocket, why on earth would he try and blame a hypothetical issue on the army?

Actually I have never seen IK supporting army, infect I have seen PTI accusing army of backing NS... and more.

 

[Syed Mukkarram]

I lack time... so I will be short in reply.

There was appointed Chief justice and courts were working as normal.


he's in American pockets or not, this is something we can't control or detect.
So far his politics have only helped imperialists, so what matters is ground reality.


I say because, PTI is 100% occupied with NS and is also keeping nation and army occupied.
PTI failed to plan for elections of opposition leader, which was as simple as 1+1
They were simply hanging on to the leads/ opportunities created by Sheikh Rashid.


If I have two choose between 3 than yes most certainly, and I pick NS.
Simply because NS is less dangerous because of his unpopularity. I feel more safe, when Army is most popular, because I have zero trust on politicians.


We'll see transparency when he comes to power.
Constitutional reforms helps no one, actually it only hurts economy of state and eventually its people.
What is required from him is his clear position before elections, on regional affairs, future development plan, energy policy, his views on Kalabagh dam, his views about army, his resolve to bring culprits of money laundering to azad adlia, I personally would like to see reversing names of national assets i.e. Peshawar Airport and Islamabad Airport etc.


Do not put words in my mouth... BTW, Pakistani politicians always have multiple foreign states/ agencies doing the thinking and backing for them, they are never alone, so was Zardari.


Actually I have never seen IK supporting army, infect I have seen PTI accusing army of backing NS... and more.

Sir, if I would be part of the establishment i totally agrees with you, I will never allow IK to win because he is arrogant which in return cost the army and its policies, he is not corrupt which in return would not benefiting me as establishment to push my policies, he is not intelligent which in return will be burden for me as establishment, he has no plans which in return damaging for the nation.

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

NRO was never meant for PPP because if that was the case then why BB case was opened in supreme court thanks to Iftikhar chodhury (we all know how chodhry destroys ppp helped nawaz and nawaz helped Chodhry for restoration with the help of phone call by army chief) By the way I am PTI supporter.

I would disagree. Who opened the case against BB? It wasn't Mushy, It wasn't US or army. It was the back stabber Noora who had a great deal with Vital Kania (Iftikhar Khutta Chaudhary). As soon as he got back in the politics he had started point scoring against PPP to destroy them and restrict them within Sindh only. With BB's assassination, it was even an easier job to carry out as Zardara had no political wisdom to outwit Noora.
I would stick to my point, NRO was for PPP, BB helped Noora get in and benefit from it. Noora slowly and gradually had his hooks deeper and deeper and assumed power back in 2013. It was a slow process but it ensured him he would be the king who he is now.

Why zardari offered Shujat for alliance because he knows that pervaiz ilahi will not accept nawaz leadership which all q league members would do,

Shujahat and Pervaiz both had decided not to go under Noora. However, the had pressure from their MNA's and MPA's who wanted ministries. When they were offered a partnership with PPP they decided to take it because it would have helped them quench the desire of their MNAs and MPAs who on the other hand decided to join Noora for long term benefits.
Once their party was fragmented, they had no way of repairing it all alone.

PTI helped nawaz to destroy PPP, few politicians joins PTI because remaining huge lot was ready to join PMLN and they all joined PMLN and PTI on advise. so the question why it was happened like that, it was because people could clearly see the tilt of establishment. So PTI took the blame and PMLN won the game.

Initially, the establishment had wanted PPP's government as US had intended. However, assassination of BB was a great factor that caused the tilt but by then it was too late.
From the word go PTI had been competing PML N. Though during the elections 2013, they dented PPP more than PML N.

 

[Imad.Khan]

NRO was given because of the pressure of All Parties Democratic Alliance.
Democracy lovers should dance now.
While PPP was voted by same public, who now surf on PTI waters.
When United PTI-PMLN-PPP use to shout .. go Musharraf go back than PPP and PMLN were counted in angels.

There will always be pressure with the role, but a strong leader will not fold to them and will take decisions that are best for the country not best for himself.

 

[BATMAN]

Sir, if I would be part of the establishment i totally agrees with you, I will never allow IK to win because he is arrogant which in return cost the army and its policies, he is not corrupt which in return would not benefiting me as establishment to push my policies, he is not intelligent which in return will be burden for me as establishment, he has no plans which in return damaging for the nation.

Sir as a common observant, I have seen that he's least interested in serving Pakistan as PM.
He could have been PM after NS left as a result of Musharraf's pardon.
He could have been PM in 2008 elections, if he had made alliance with PMLQ
He could have been PM if he had stood besides dr. TuQ when he demanded PPP govt. to leave before 2013 elections.
He could have taken NS to courts on basis of article 62-63 right any day in last 10 years.
He has never issued any statement on practical issues, like KalaBagh dam and Kashmir issue.

Next.. army policy is to support govt. and help out nation, if IK can do better than he will have all support.

Plans.. he sure have NON.

There will always be pressure with the role, but a strong leader will not fold to them and will take decisions that are best for the country not best for himself.

We can say he was not strong enough, but enough is relevant.... He was man in middle of crisis and NRO expired with his departure. Why judiciary allowed criminals to run for elections ?

 

[Saif-ud-Din Qutuz]

Whether Imran take solo flieght aur alliance it will not help him. if he really want to win election, then he has to win Punjab by destroying PMLN almost. question is how he can? he needs to buy every MNA's and MPA's of punjab and that is it.
You talking about alliance, tell me the party who may help PTI to won election, ANP= No because ANP is their competitor in KPK, PPP= No because PPP will out shadow PTI, Musharaf= he has nobody in his party and no constituency, MQM/PSP= yes it might e their partners because no direct competition like ANP, not a big party like PPP and definitely have a constituency in Karachi and hyderabad Unlike musharaff..

Now, its very difficult for Imran to form a giant coalition against PPP and PML N. He is doomed to failure. He has allowed all the corrupt and incompetent politicians from Q league to enter his party. Those incompetent politicians doesn't want other competent leaders to get in. Hence Imran is getting kicked out everywhere. Panama and Dawn leaks is a great example of Imran's failure as a politicians.
Just look, Gilani was sent home for not writing a letter by Noora and co. Over here we've clear case against Noora but still nothing is happening. Noora is making Imran dance on his tunes.

 

[Syed Mukkarram]

Sir as a common observant, I have seen that he's least interested in serving Pakistan as PM.
He could have been PM after NS left as a result of Musharraf's pardon.
He could have been PM in 2008 elections, if he had made alliance with PMLQ
He could have been PM if he had stood besides dr. TuQ when he demanded PPP govt. to leave before 2013 elections.
He could have taken NS to courts on basis of article 62-63 right any day in last 10 years.
He has never issued any statement on practical issues, like KalaBagh dam and Kashmir issue.

Next.. army policy is to support govt. and help out nation, if IK can do better than he will have all support.

Plans.. he sure have NON.



We can say he was not strong enough, but enough is relevant.... He was man in middle of crisis and NRO expired with his departure. Why judiciary allowed criminals to run for elections ?

Thanks, and I totally agrees with you. he missed the train in 2008 surely, he missed the train in 2002. Now he may become PM in 2023 elections but certainly not in 2018..

 

[BATMAN]

Thanks, and I totally agrees with you. he missed the train in 2008 surely, he missed the train in 2002. Now he may become PM in 2023 elections but certainly not in 2018..

That's what is being predicted by the visionaries.
Kids are not willing to face the reality, not yet.

 

[BRAVO_]

in next election people will vote to same parties as usual in Punjab PMLn in sindh PPP and in KP close contest.. personally i am against this democracy drama.... over and over again same faces ...in a country where people vote for the plate of biryani what could be exacted from democracy ???? true in literate countries democracy produced results but this system dont suits us .... and by the way PMLn came in to power with 14 million votes (this sum is inclusive of fake votes) but rest of 183 million people are paying the price

 

[Syed Mukkarram]

I would disagree. Who opened the case against BB? It wasn't Mushy, It wasn't US or army. It was the back stabber Noora who had a great deal with Vital Kania (Iftikhar Khutta Chaudhary). As soon as he got back in the politics he had started point scoring against PPP to destroy them and restrict them within Sindh only. With BB's assassination, it was even an easier job to carry out as Zardara had no political wisdom to outwit Noora.
I would stick to my point, NRO was for PPP, BB helped Noora get in and benefit from it. Noora slowly and gradually had his hooks deeper and deeper and assumed power back in 2013. It was a slow process but it ensured him he would be the king who he is now.


Shujahat and Pervaiz both had decided not to go under Noora. However, the had pressure from their MNA's and MPA's who wanted ministries. When they were offered a partnership with PPP they decided to take it because it would have helped them quench the desire of their MNAs and MPAs who on the other hand decided to join Noora for long term benefits.
Once their party was fragmented, they had no way of repairing it all alone.


Initially, the establishment had wanted PPP's government as US had intended. However, assassination of BB was a great factor that caused the tilt but by then it was too late.
From the word go PTI had been competing PML N. Though during the elections 2013, they dented PPP more than PML N.

BB case was opened in mid of 2007 after mush restored Chodhry and that time Nawaz was not in the country so how could he open cases against BB and country was run by musharaf and let me remind you he was also the army chief on that time so your base of discussion was wrong.
Bro i think we are in total disagreement so let it be. Cheers.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

There was appointed Chief justice and courts were working as normal.

and what about the suspended judges, and the constitutional crisis that was going on?

In addition to that, much of the opposition was jailed and couldn't run for the election due to electoral laws, so a boycott was honorable for the opposition parties to do.

he's in American pockets or not, this is something we can't control or detect.
So far his politics have only helped imperialists, so what matters is ground reality.

probably not, he is anti-American for sure if you listen to his statements and actions including blocking the NATO supply line, its clear that they probably dont favor him.

How has he helped imperialists?

If I have two choose between 3 than yes most certainly, and I pick NS.
Simply because NS is less dangerous because of his unpopularity. I feel more safe, when Army is most popular, because I have zero trust on politicians.

Why? The Army and government should be working together, not in conflict. As much as I despise Nawaz, it is not a good feeling when ISPR announces that the PM's office is basically publishing lies.

I want a government that doesn't play dirty politics with national security, and I want an Amry that doesn't feel the need to openly declare its opposition to government positions.

Constitutional reforms helps no one, actually it only hurts economy of state and eventually its people.

Not true, constitutional reforms, provided they are done right can be very beneficial. I dont know why you say they help no one, would you prefer Pakistan still had a restricted judiciary and a presidency with supreme authority?

I personally would like to see more devolution, and certain powers delegated away from the PM's office, and i dont see Nawaz or Zardari ever being in favour of that.

What is required from him is his clear position before elections, on regional affairs, future development plan, energy policy, his views on Kalabagh dam, his views about army, his resolve to bring culprits of money laundering to azad adlia, I personally would like to see reversing names of national assets i.e. Peshawar Airport and Islamabad Airport etc.

They will be put forward, we still have some time before the elections.

This is another thing to consider, look up the manifesto for PMLN from 2013 (its available online), If they even did a fraction of what they promised then Pakistan would be developed with high growth by now. So whatever PMLN or PPP promise should definitely taken with some skepticism.

BTW, Pakistani politicians always have multiple foreign states/ agencies doing the thinking and backing for them, they are never alone, so was Zardari.

True, but I prefer someone that doesn't rely on foreign funding. Nawaz was in the pockets of the Saudis, Zardari the Americans, yet IK doesn't seem to be favoured by any superpower because of his anti-imperialist positions.

Dont you think a Pakistan run by someone without foreign interests would be good?

Actually I have never seen IK supporting army, infect I have seen PTI accusing army of backing NS... and more.

Imran Khan regularly meets with the army chief, and publishes positive statements about the army's positions. Just look it up on google man, even the Indians are making articles since 2014 about how Imran and the Army are plotting against Nawaz.

I think if he became PM, i would signal a new era or Military-Government cooperation, and would mean that issues like law&order, foreign sponsored terrorism, and the LOC would be resolved in a much more clear and concise manner, rather than the confusion, drama, and conspiracies that we get now.

 

[Hollow Field]

If these two win, we lose...again