MRCA Competition-threat to PAF?

[zeeshuisb]

typhoon is very good but saudi arabia already placed its order of 80 typhoons

how will they manage the delivery if india choose typhoon. also 12 billion is nothing for typhoon

rafale is a good fighter but still some countries are still considering it for a long time

 

[RS4]

Its only my opinion but i think the PAF will continue to look to China as they are more reliable then US, However the PAF has always prefered Western Aircraft traditionally as they contain better tech. The PAF has always tried to counter India's numerical superority with better training and tech aircraft like the F16. However India is building an airfleet larger and more high tech than the PAF can catch up with. Chinese designs do not offer the technology which is still dominated by the WEST. The j14 if even acuired will not be as capable the US FA 22 Raptor which it is designed to meet. So my question is if India goes for a US aircraft either F16 IN or F18 hornet E/F what will the PAF do with its limited financial resources. Some have suggested that the PAF will look to the J10. However i fail to see how even a 100 J10/FC20 can be a appropriate response to India growing technological dominance. Other believe that the PAF will look to eith more F16 or a European aircraft like the Rafale. India has been offered far better deals that PAkistan will. So what are we going to do, simple rely on Nuclear deterrance is a dangerous policy, Nuclear war is not something we should hope for. So a conventional response is in my opinion the most sensible option faced with dire realitites of the regional imbalance?

 

[Beskar]

You know what, it might come off sounding weird, but I'm actually going to be REALLY happy if America ends up giving their latest Aircrafts to India. Maybe then we'll wake up to the smell of their bullshit that USA has used and abused us for TOO long now. We might FINALLY figure out the double standards USA plays with us in such a subtle manner.

Maybe that way we'll give up our F-16 syndrome. The world does NOT end there. I'm glad we're at least getting the Chinese aircrafts. It's better than the watered down versions of the F-16's we usually get.

 

[Neo]

Guys, just wait another year till you see the FC-20. You'll be amazed with this baby.

 

[blain2]

I think the Rafale will win it, full ToT (including AESA tech) and even source codes. It will give the IAF a massive new capability and it is free from American export regulations and restrictions as it is all French. SPECTRA would not be provided though as it is forbidden to be exported.

Then IAF and ADlA will be the only two airforces in the world flying the aircraft.... Seriously enough, Rafale has no chance.

 

[blain2]

If I am right India will not get ToT for the AESA radar with the F18, I'm not sure about the F16 though.

India is not getting full TOT for any of the radar avionics. LM and Boeing have spent more money developing the radar and the technology than the whole cost of the Indian MMRCA tender. You get the radars, you install them. That is the extent of the ToT. Boeing and LM are not in the situation that Dassault is (where they cannot find enough customers to recover the cost of their investments thus they offer everything on the table). I would even say that even with Rafale, India is not getting ToT on key technologies such as their future AESA radar and the SPECTRA ECM suit. There are industry secrets to be maintained.

 

[RS4]

Guys, just wait another year till you see the FC-20. You'll be amazed with this baby.

Hello my friend.

I dnt know if you have any info regarding the reports that PAF have an interest in twin engined Chinese aircraft known as J13 which look simialr to rafale. Also will the PAF FC20 have conformal fuel tank or be equipped with a Chinese ideginous ASEA radar?
Any info my friends would be greatly appreciated.
Regards RS4

 

[blain2]

Its only my opinion but i think the PAF will continue to look to China as they are more reliable then US, However the PAF has always prefered Western Aircraft traditionally as they contain better tech. The PAF has always tried to counter India's numerical superority with better training and tech aircraft like the F16. However India is building an airfleet larger and more high tech than the PAF can catch up with. Chinese designs do not offer the technology which is still dominated by the WEST. The j14 if even acuired will not be as capable the US FA 22 Raptor which it is designed to meet. So my question is if India goes for a US aircraft either F16 IN or F18 hornet E/F what will the PAF do with its limited financial resources. Some have suggested that the PAF will look to the J10. However i fail to see how even a 100 J10/FC20 can be a appropriate response to India growing technological dominance. Other believe that the PAF will look to eith more F16 or a European aircraft like the Rafale. India has been offered far better deals that PAkistan will. So what are we going to do, simple rely on Nuclear deterrance is a dangerous policy, Nuclear war is not something we should hope for. So a conventional response is in my opinion the most sensible option faced with dire realitites of the regional imbalance?

At some point, things become even in terms of technology. Such is the case with the current generation of fighters. If IAF were going for a 5th gen solution then PAF would be worried. This is not the case. Currently the name of the game is integration of the glassing (digital), avionics, Data Linking and Electronic Support Measures in 3rd to 4th gen aircraft. Nobody is offering anything a generation ahead in terms of the flight envelope. Aircraft such as J-10, F-16, F/A-18, Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen, and the Russian versions are all about the same in terms of their flight envelopes. The difference is in the type of avionics you pick and integrate.

PAF can handle the F/A-18 threat if we go for the right kind of radar and standoff weapons on our Chinese platforms (which is exactly what is planned). USN and USAF aircraft have flown against each other (F/A-18 SH vs. Viper debate) and to be very honest with you, the platforms here are nothing like a generation ahead of each other.

Until and unless IAF go for F-35 or some Russian derivative in that class, our current and planned acquisitions in the near future still give us good capability that can counter the MMRCA program.

 

[Neo]

Hello my friend.

I dnt know if you have any info regarding the reports that PAF have an interest in twin engined Chinese aircraft known as J13 which look simialr to rafale. Also will the PAF FC20 have conformal fuel tank or be equipped with a Chinese ideginous ASEA radar?
Any info my friends would be greatly appreciated.
Regards RS4

If you read the interview with ACM published in AFM last year, you'll see refference to FC-20, an PAF specific derivative of the J-10B. Initial batch will have 36 FC-20's with AESA and BVR, possibly TVC capability. This is probably our last 4.5 gen aircraft, next major Sino-Pak contract will include Stealth J-XX.

 

[notorious_eagle]

In my opinion, the first thing that our leaders should focus on is our economy. We should solve this energy crisis, once this energy crisis is solved i know the economy will start growing again. Until than, Pakistan should not be looking to buy any new weapons because it would be unwise. We cannot expand our military unless we expand our economy, so in my opinion our leaders should focus all their attention on the economy right now instead of worrying how to counter India.
Back to the topic, i agree with NEO. Just wait till you guys see the FC20, these babies will have all the latest upgrades. FC20 is miles ahead of J10A and will have the capability of fighting any of the 4.5th generation aircrafts.

 

[x_man]

The country that was once a captive defence equipment market for the Soviet Union ( later Russia) which provided 80 percent of her military hardware — but is now seen as trying to broaden its military suppliers.

If they're keen to diversify their suppliers, and having already ordered and operating a shed load of SU-30MKs, I have to wonder what they've selected. If they go for the Mig-35 (Mig-29 OVT) it would seem to throw out the whole idea of diversifying altogether….

 

[Moscow]

Until and unless IAF go for F-35 or some Russian derivative in that class, our current and planned acquisitions in the near future still give us good capability that can counter the MMRCA program.


sir with due respect india is taking part in the pakfa program which is in the category of 5th gen aircraft. most of the work regarding engines,radar,airframe has already being developed, the russian version prototype is scheduled to fly in 2009,
the aesa radar and the salyut engines are tried on the mig-35 and su35 already. by 2016-2017 the indian version of the fgfa will be ready for induction. thats also the time when the mrca planes will be arriving<not before that considering indias infamous time management>

so during that time pakistan will be having the fc20 and jf-17 as its main fighters which will still be technologically below the pakfa.the jxx program is still in very early stage and it will take time to develop the 5th gen capabilities. it took several years for china to devise a world class aircraft also the pakfa took decades to develop so saying that the jxx can be achieved in a short period of time is not feasible.
so paf really has to counter the iaf threat by better avionics thats the way i think because even in the next 20-30 years iaf will have the technical superiority regarding the planes.
also if india chooses the f-16 for the mrca deal the door will get open for the induction of jsf in the future.having both the pakfa and jsf option for tha iaf will really be a cause of concern for the paf
thanx

 

[Moscow]

just a point i would like to make that if the chinese are so confident of their fighter program then why are they still interested in the new flankers for their airforce, why are they still depending on the salyut to manufacture their engines?
also everyone keeps talking about the chinese military future , the rest of the world is also advancing. the chinese incorporate a lot of money in their defence but the amount of money does not always bear better results.

 

[zeeshuisb]

moscow

did u read the article airborne laser i need ur comments on it

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Lets repeat 65 once again when PAF used few but capable 18 F-104 to counter indian huge hunters, and gnat force! 18 Rafale could do the job along with ERIEYE and F-16 block52+. lets hope PAF can get russian AESA radar on mig-35 for FC-20 and we will have quite an air force by 2014-16.

btw some russian sourse say that chinese 5th generation programe is ahead of russian.