Most of Pakistan isn't a part of the Indian sub-continent

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Proof of what? You can google and there are tons of material confirming that Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim invaded India and made my forefathers as slaves. I do not think any Pakistani even disputes this fact. In fact this is an event of great pride for the Pakistanis. Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim was their great forefather who conquered India. Pakistanis created and dedicate Pakistan in his name.

But can you prove that EVERY single modern day Pakistani is from "invader" lineage as per your insinuations?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Freedom my foot. Your Arab forefathers invaded my lands and made my forefathers slaves, displaced them from my native lands and forced my forefathers take refuge in other lands of the subcontinent.

Mods, if this poster can’t prove his assertions, I believe it warrants a ban.

@Horus @WebMaster @Dubious @waz

 

[waz]

I am in south India because your Arab forefathers displaced my forefathers from my native lands and called it Pakistan.

Pakistanis are not Arabs, stop writing rubbish on here. This is a fallacy and you can't prove it genetically or historically.
The lands were not yours or your so called "forefathers", they belonged to our forefathers.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Geologically, pgysically and acurately speakimg in terms of continents and sub contients. Pakistan is 21% central asian, 40% falls under greator middle east/persia region rest of 39% falls under indian sub continent aka south asia. I should know my dad says so , he is a Senior geologist in Ajk minerals investigation Department and also an oil exploration scientist in usa state of texas on an oil rig called five star employee of british petrolium. He has phd in geology and masters in environmental engineering. I take his word regarding geology and geography always.

 

[HalfMoon]

1. No, we don't think we're descended from Muhammad Bin Qasim. We like him for the same reasons Americans like Christopher Colombus, he brought Islam to the region and without him Pakistan wouldn't exist.

Columbus was a caucasian like majority of Americans. Similarly Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim was an Arab like majority of Pakistanis. Finally you are accepting what I was saying all along.

2. Can't speak for Bangladesh, but Pakistan doesn't have castes, only tribes. India still has a caste system though.

Again thanks for agreeing. Pakistanis follow the tribe system like their Arab brothers and their Arab forefathers who have immigrated to the Indian subcontinent since the conquest by their great forefather Muḥammad ibn Qāsim. Only native people from Indian subcontinent follow caste system. The fact that caste system is missing in Pakistan is clear proof that Pakistanis are Arabs and not natives to this land.

3. No, Pakistanis don't "love" Arab culture, your technique of sarcasm only works if you're playing off actual stereotypes, but in this case you're not.

Saudis sponsored your nuke program, Saudi intervene/rescue whenever there is crisis in Pakistan and General RS is helping Saudis fight the Turks/Iranians and you want the world to believe that Pakistanis don't love Arabs?

No, we don't. Point number 3 applies to this case too. We just consider his invasions good because they brought Islam to the region. We are Muslim first.

Show me people from one Muslim country other than Pakistan who have given up their History and Culture for Islam?

Turkish are proud of their Central Asian roots and rulers.

Iranians still feel proud about Cyrus the great.

Bangladeshis are proud of their Bengali language.

Indonesians still play their Ramayana dramas.

This list goes on and on.

And now you want people to believe that Pakistanis gave up their native history and culture, started a new chapter with Muḥammad ibn Qāsim stepping a foot on this soil and became self hating people of their past history and culture just for the sake of Islam? No one believes that. This is going to be a tough sell for you.

The fact is Pakistanis are Arabs and love Muḥammad ibn Qāsim as he was their Arab general and forefather who brought them to this land.

Pakistanis do not consider any subcontinent culture and history prior to Muḥammad ibn Qāsim as their own as it not their own.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

This is a curious little fact I managed to stumble across. It turns out that geographically, most of Pakistan isn't a part of the Indian sub-continent. How? Let me explain:

Most of us know that the Indus river has been the traditional western boundary of the Indian sub-continent, and that this therefore means KPK, Balochistan and Gilgit Baltistan are not a part of the Indian sub-continent. However, what a lot of people don't actually know is that the total area of all these provinces is larger than the total area of all of Pakistan's provinces that are a part of the Indian sub-continent (Punjab+Sindh+AK+Islamabad capital territory).

Total area of Pakistan: 796096 square km

Area of Balochistan: 347190 square km

Area of KPK: 74521 square km

Area of FATA (now a part of KPK): 27220 square km

Area of GB: 72971 square km

Total area of above provinces: 521902 square km

Sources:

https://web.archive.org/web/2010122...k/depts/pco/statistics/area_pop/area_pop.html

https://unpo.org/article/15483?id=15483

@django @Pakhtoon yum @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @ghazi52 @khanmubashir @RealNapster @Indus Pakistan @Talwar e Pakistan @Chakar The Great

A good reminder, my friend. May I say that even culturally - by far the most important criterion - Pakistan is different from the sub-continent. Personally, I consider Pakistan as an equal part of the Turko-Persian narrative.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Columbus was a caucasian like majority of Americans. Similarly Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim was an Arab like majority of Pakistanis. Finally you are accepting what I was saying all along.



Again thanks for agreeing. Pakistanis follow the tribe system like their Arab brothers and their Arab forefathers who have immigrated to the Indian subcontinent since the conquest by their great forefather Muḥammad ibn Qāsim. Only native people from Indian subcontinent follow caste system. The fact that caste system is missing in Pakistan is clear proof that Pakistanis are Arabs and not natives to this land.



Saudis sponsored your nuke program, Saudi intervene/rescue whenever there is crisis in Pakistan and General RS is helping Saudis fight the Turks/Iranians and you want the world to believe that Pakistanis don't love Arabs?



Show me people from one Muslim country other than Pakistan who have given up their History and Culture for Islam?

Turkish are proud of their Central Asian roots and rulers.

Iranians still feel proud about Cyrus the great.

Bangladeshis are proud of their Bengali language.

Indonesians still play their Ramayana dramas.

This list goes on and on.

And now you want people to believe that Pakistanis gave up their native history and culture, started a new chapter with Muḥammad ibn Qāsim stepping a foot on this soil and became self hating people of their past history and culture just for the sake of Islam? No one believes that. This is going to be a tough sell for you.

The fact is Pakistanis are Arabs and love Muḥammad ibn Qāsim as he was their Arab general and forefather who brought them to this land.

Pakistanis do not consider any subcontinent culture and history prior to Muḥammad ibn Qāsim as their own as it not their own.

Modern day indian/ hindu culture is not or HAS NEVER been OUR culture or that of our ancestors who have ALWAYS lived in the area that is modern day Pakistan.

 

[HalfMoon]

Modern day indian/ hindu culture is not or HAS NEVER been OUR culture or that of our ancestors who have ALWAYS lived in the area that is modern day Pakistan.

So what is your history and culture prior to Muḥammad ibn Qāsim's army setting its foot on the Indian subcontinent? Certainly, you do not consider Raja Dahar, Chanakya , Chandragupta, Ashoka etc. as your forefathers.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

So what is your history and culture prior to Muḥammad ibn Qāsim's army setting its foot on the Indian subcontinent? Certainly, you do not consider Raja Dahar, Chanakya , Chandragupta, Ashoka etc. as your forefathers.

That culture that existed is just as alien to modern day indians as is Islam. Those that existed in ancient times in what is now modern day Pakistan, were NOT the ancestors of modern day indians: they were NOT the ancestors of gujuratis, south indians, tamils etc. They were OUR ancestors.

Here is the evidence:

https://www.economist.com/asia/2018...ches-a-treasured-theory-about-indians-origins

The compelling evidence clearly states we were here long before Islam. Whatever you say to contrary, is completely refuted by the evidence.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Indians fools dont seem to understand. In normal situations we pakistaniz call ourselves, kashmiriz, punjabiz, sindhiz, hazarahz, Afghans, tajiks, kalashi, balti, pakhtoon, baloch etc etc

But when indians claim we all have something in common with india and start to attack us all pakistaniz, no matter if i am a kashmiri ot punjabi or kalashi or baloch or punjabi , etc that moment i become a true patriotic pakistani we took pakistan in the name of islam. We split british india into two pieces so that we (muslims of british india) all of us mentioned above can say we are not indians. We want a new identity we started a journey in 1947 to form a new nation, new identity differnt totally differnt from india/baharat/hindustan.

We are pakistaniz first. F U indians. We would like to be differnt cuz in our hearts our minds our souls we want to be differnt than india we don't like india and its extremeist hindu ideals. F off.

Pakistan is a new born infant nation. Others, arabs iranins afghans egyptions and chinese even indians have 1000s of years of identity and nationhood.

We here in pakistan took this land to be above kashmiriz,punjabjz, baloch, indians, egyptions or turks. We took Pakistan to be nothing more than Muslims! Pakistan ka matlab kya? La Ilaha Illallah.

The moment india claims pakistan to be some what of indian anything. My blood boils and stop being a kashmiri that instant and i am a pakistani in that moment. Im sure its the same for all groups i pakistan.

Indians should wize up and quit irritating us all. Indians might push us pakistaniz closer to each other in brotherhood cuz of it not good for india.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Indians fools dont seem to understand. In normal situations we pakistaniz call ourselves, kashmiriz, punjabiz, sindhiz, hazarahz, Afghans, tajiks, kalashi, balti, pakhtoon, baloch etc etc

But when indians claim we all have something in common with india and start to attack us all pakistaniz, no matter if i am a kashmiri ot punjabi or kalashi or baloch or punjabi , etc that moment i become a true patriotic pakistani we took pakistan in the name of islam. We split british india into two pieces so that we (muslims of british india) all of us mentioned above can say we are not indians. We want a new identity we started a journey in 1947 to form a new nation, new identity differnt totally differnt from india/baharat/hindustan.

We are pakistaniz first. F U indians. We would like to be differnt cuz in our hearts our minds our souls we want to be differnt than india we don't like india and its extremeist hindu ideals. F off.

Pakistan is a new born infant nation. Others, arabs iranins afghans egyptions and chinese even indians have 1000s of years of identity and nationhood.

We here in pakistan took this land to be above kashmiriz,punjabjz, baloch, indians, egyptions or turks. We took Pakistan to be nothing more than Muslims! Pakistan ka matlab kya? La Ilaha Illallah.

The moment india claims pakistan to be some what of indian anything. My blood boils and stop being a kashmiri that instant and i am a pakistani in that moment. Im sure its the same for all groups i pakistan.

Indians should wize up and quit irritating us all. Indians might push us pakistaniz closer to each other in brotherhood cuz of it not good for india.

You know whats sad countries like Bosnia,Croatia and Serbia which did not exist 30 years ago are more nationalistic than we are sigh @Indus Pakistan

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

You know whats sad countries like Bosnia,Croatia and Serbia which did not exist 30 years ago are more nationalistic than we are sigh @Indus Pakistan

Don't worry they are going through a phase we went through in 1970s when we were about 25 years old. Im good at history keep learning it everyday.

Pakistan is unique those smaller nations above have very few ethnicities. In pakistan we have so many nations. Just like india is, but india is very big compared to us. Those nations inside decided they want to retain old indian cultures and identity hindu dominant society. We chose a new dynamic new identity.

Serbia croatia bosnia are too small and have different dynamics and reasons to become nations. We have a differnt dynamic.

And i know pretty bad asss patriots back home in pakistan. U under-estimate pakistan or may be u don't know us very well?

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

A good reminder, my friend. May I say that even culturally - by far the most important criterion - Pakistan is different from the sub-continent. Personally, I consider Pakistan as an equal part of the Turko-Persian narrative.

The British Empire really did us over by banning Farsi. Now you've got so many people who just view us as Indians with a separatist complex.

Never the less, Turkey, Pakistan and Iran all have Iranic ethnic groups (the Kurds in Turkey, the Persians in Iran, and the Pashtun and Baloch in Pakistan), all practice some form of Islam, all three were the homes of the Islamic gunpowder empires (the Ottomans, Safavids and Mughals), all three of us represent some of the oldest civilisations in history (Anatolia, Persia and the Indus) and we are the most militarily powerful countries in the Muslim world as well some of the most intellectually active (Turkey and Iran publish numerous books, a Pakistani won a Nobel Prize in Physics, etc).

Ultimately, we do need to step up our alliance for mutual benefit and put an end to the Arab hegemony over the Muslim world's politics.

Umayyad general Muḥammad ibn Qāsim was an Arab like majority of Pakistanis.

No, but he was a Muslim like the majority of Pakistanis. So by applying your Colombus logic, it still works without us having to be Arab.

If you insist on a racial connection, you do have Pakistanis descended from Arabs who came to the region during Islamic rule (such as Qureshis, Syeds, Ansaris, Awans, Arains, etc). And Muhammad Bin Qasim's skull type would have been Caucasoid, just like most Pakistanis.

Pakistanis follow the tribe system like their Arab brothers

I know you're trolling, but yes, our tribal system is very similar to theirs.

nly native people from Indian subcontinent follow caste system.

No, only Hindus follow it.

Saudis sponsored your nuke program

We could have done it without them.

, Saudi intervene/rescue whenever there is crisis in Pakistan

No they don't.

General RS is helping Saudis fight the Turks/Iranians

No he's not.

ou want the world to believe that Pakistanis don't love Arabs?

You said Arab culture, not Arab people.

Show me people from one Muslim country other than Pakistan who have given up their History and Culture for Islam?

Show me some proof that we have given up our culture. Last time I checked, the Pashtuns are still Pashtun, the Hazaras are still Hazara, the Baloch are still Baloch, the Dardics are still Dardic, the Punjabis are still Punjabi, etc. What makes us different from other Muslim countries is that we are significantly more diverse than all of them, hence why Pakistanis as a whole don't really have a unified culture to the same extent as Turks, Persians, Arabs, etc. A good nation to compare us to is Afghanistan, they too are extremely varied and lack a unified culture, but nobody calls them Arab do they?

Pakistanis do not consider any subcontinent culture and history prior to Muḥammad ibn Qāsim as their own as it not their own.

Then how do you explain @Indus Pakistan ?

So what is your history and culture prior to Muḥammad ibn Qāsim's army setting its foot on the Indian subcontinent?

We are the people of the Indus. Our region has been the site of many migrations throughout history, which has contributed to our melting pot of ethnicities and cultures. Our history is the history of this region. Muhammad Bin Qasim's arrival to the region is considered important because his arrival brought the arrival of Islam, which not only added a whole new influx of migrants to the Indus, but also gave us our unifying ideology and primary identity, and that is Islam.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

A good reminder, my friend. May I say that even culturally - by far the most important criterion - Pakistan is different from the sub-continent. Personally, I consider Pakistan as an equal part of the Turko-Persian narrative.

Agreed 100%.

All of our famous scholars, philosophers, statesmen, sultans, amirs, judges, and renowned personalities are all in the Turkish-Persian tradition.

Our oral traditions and folk tales are also thoroughly Persian and Turkish.

Even the Prophet Muhammad saws referred to us separately as Sindh (Pakistan-Indus) wal Hind (Bharat-Ganges.)

Therefore the separation existed thousands of years ago.

I also do not like the claims of some Pakistani posters that half of Pakistan is related to India. It is not.

We have had atleast 1,400 years of separation from Hindu dominated Bharat and lived under Islamic Afghan-based rulers for most of that time.

The British Empire really did us over by banning Farsi.

This was one of the main problems.

The British cut our cultural ties with Iran, Afghanistan, and Tajikistan. We have been drifting apart ever since (except for Pukhtoon areas of Afghanistan.)

My grandparents and great-grandparents all spoke fluent Farsi. It was very common at that time before partition for Muslims to have their children learn Farsi. This explains Allama Iqbal’s fluency to a large extent.

Now mostly Urdu has replaced it, but it is our duty to recover that part of our history, educate our younger generation, and build those cultural ties.

Even now, Turks and Iranians become shocked when they realize how close Pakistan is to them in culture and civilization. We share many of the same customs and fables.

I am confident that our new government will finally do something to expand our influence in the Near East.

We are the people of the Indus. Our region has been the site of many migrations throughout history, which has contributed to our melting pot of ethnicities and cultures. Our history is the history of this region. Muhammad Bin Qasim's arrival to the region is considered important because his arrival brought the arrival of Islam, which not only added a whole new influx of migrants to the Indus, but also gave us our unifying ideology and primary identity, and that is Islam.

 

[Humble Analyst]

To begin with Indian sub-continent should not be used. I have worn myself out here trying to explain to Paks not to fcukin use terms like India sub-continent, desi, Asian, Muslim and the other synonyms I hear. If we don't own the name 'Pakistan' nobody else will. Specifically with referance to Indian Sub-continent post 1947 that term should have been dropped. These are geographic descriptors and a more neutral term like South Asia should be used. Simply because the term 'India' was branded in 1947 by a nation state called Bharat. Thus to prevent any ambiquity and to be neutral all the states that occupy trhe region South Asia should be used.

With referance to what you say it's not entirely this simple. From tectonic point of view what you said true. But in human geography and even physical geography rivers tend to bind and not separate. Consider Ganga. You can' divide northern plains of Ganga from the souther plains. Similiarly Indus is one physical water system that includes good chunk of Afghanistan. Kabul River is a tributary of Indus as much as Jhelum is.

Where Pakistan should focus on is Indus River simply because one can see Pakistan is underpinned by it. Pakistan occupies most of the Indus Basin. Pakistan can be used as a synomym for Indus Basin. That is why I use that handle. Some of the Indus Basin does extend into Afghanistan, China and India but as the map below shows Pakistan is central to the Indus Basin. In fact in Pakistan you can't really escape from the Indus Basin.

Agree, nice post with passion