Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[Solomon2]

The establishment of a national identity has been a key concern of Pakistani leaders since before Pakistan was founded. They did not simply want to be known as "Northern Indians". They knew the Muslims of India only partly supported the idea of Pakistan. There was no vote on the matter until 1970.

Different ideas have been promoted for justifying Pakistan and many of these have bounced around and been recycled for decades. But the brutal truth is that the State was yielded by its failed politicians to the military in the 1950s and ever since then Pakistan has been an army with a country, rather than a country with an army, with the army constantly seeking justification for its leading role in governing the country, lest people see it more as parasite than protector. (Even Z.A. Bhutto's rule wasn't an exception: he was the "civilian martial law administrator", a man the Army needed because his popularity shielded the Army from humiliation and only diplomacy could free 90,000 prisoners from the other side of the subcontinent. Once that mission was accomplished there was very little opposition from the ranks to removing Z.A.B. from power and resuming military rule once more.)

Since nationalism had failed as a motive force in 1970 and Z.A.B.'s socialism was seen as unproductive the idea of Islamization has been promoted instead. Each generation absorbed and internalized the credo promoted at the time, hence the different ideas circulating and clashing about what Pakistan's identity should be. But in the end, it's the Army alone that has decided who is and who isn't loyal to Pakistan - who it is that is guilty of treason - and for these decisions, largely carried out through its "agencies", the Army hasn't been accountable to anyone.

Since Mushy left there have been elections but Pakistan's elected politicians still see themselves as subordinates to the military. Perhaps a conviction of Musharraf will change that. However, corruption in Pakistan runs very deep: most politicians see Pakistan as a vehicle for personal enrichment and increased status - an instrument to be used, rather than a people to be served. Imo, there are not yet enough politicians who think otherwise competing with one another to change this.

 

[KingMamba]

Hi folks!!!
@Armstrong @Leader @DESERT FIGHTER @LoveIcon
@Shahmir kashmir @shan @pakdefender @KingMamba
I get the feeling i am forgetting someone? :O

Before i can finally move on from Punjab topic to Baluchistan hehe ...

What do you think of this for my chapter:

2. Punjab

• Some kind of introduction where I would explain about population, regions, and ethnic/linguistics diversity.

2.1. Jagirs.​

• • where i would explain the influence of landowners in politics.

2.2. Punjabis in the army​

• • Punjab regiment

2.3. Myth of "Punjabization"​

• • I have read this:
    " To a great extent, of course, there is no establishment conspiracy about Punjab's domination of Pakistan- with some 56% of the population and some 75% of the industry, it naturally outweighs the other provinces, just as England naturally dominates the UK..."
  • and about how it is used as some nationalism tool by other leaders... ¿?

--->> nooo!! i dont want another huge debate of this last part.... and accusations of me being an indian troll -.-

or do you think i shouldn't even mention about the point 2.3 ?¿?¿???

If it shouldnt even mentioned...what do you suggest for 2.3 instead??

Actually yes this is a pretty good overview of what you will write and leave 2.3 in there because it plays a large role in the politics in Pakistan.

 

[Ayush]

the role is quite prominent i'd say

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

A lot of Punjabis and Pashtuns are actually friends in real life, but you wouldn't know that because you live in some other country and rely solely upon the internet for information. Internet is usually full of socially retarded trolls. Afghani forums are full of such retards.
As far as genetics/race are concerned; well you don't know what you're talking about. See harappadna ancestry project. Contrary to popular belief, Punjabis are racially closest to Kashmiris. But whatever helps you sleep at night and fuels your false sense of superiority. Arguing with you people is useless as most of you have been brainwashed from birth by your parents. And most of the Punjabi and urdu speaking population doesn't really care that much, just as the rest of the civilized world.
.

I was searching about what you said earlier. It seem central punjab muslim jats may indeed have sided with sikh jats against others because of same biraderi and the fact that they were relatives. Since majority of central punjab jats didn't convert to Islam unlike in North where 95% of punjabi rajputs converted.

@Jaggu do you know more about that? @Butchcassidy

Muslim-Sikh Relations in British Punjab

 

[Kataria]

In Pakistan Gilget, Brusho people have small amount of mongloid, not others.



Khuda ka kouf karo, nothing special in them. Little bit of fair skin compared to other Indians isn't enough. But i can see why these people would be big deal in India.

I'm not just talking about light skin. These girls have more harmonious features compared to the pakistanis or punjabis I have seen. No hooked noses, no bushy eyebrows/unibrows, no excessive hairiness, messed up eyes etc... And Jammu is a city of less than a million people so being able to find and post pictures of a lot of attractive normal people means that the average Jammuite is quite attractive, at least in the South Asian context.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

I'm not just talking about light skin. These girls have more harmonious features compared to the pakistanis or punjabis I have seen. No hooked noses, no bushy eyebrows/unibrows, no excessive hairiness, messed up eyes etc... And Jammu is a city of less than a million people so being able to find and post pictures of a lot of attractive normal people means that the average Jammuite is quite attractive, at least in the South Asian context.

A part one girl who is pretty, what is her name? Others are hardly anything to write about, especially chubby guys. And that to cherry picking pictures from actors/actresses. Dogras looks like other Indians but shade lighter. Their facial feutures are typical of that hindus in Bihar and UP. Another difference is they seem to posses mongloid genes also.

 

[halupridol]

"fair n lovely" fight

 

[Jaggu]

I don't know what that Afghanis talking about, average punjabi probably have never had any contact with Muhajir unlike with pathans.

I was searching about what you said earlier. It seem central punjab muslim jats may indeed have sided with sikh jats against others because of same biraderi and the fact that they were relatives. Since majority of central punjab jats didn't convert to Islam unlike in North where 95% of punjabi rajputs converted.

@Jaggu do you know more about that?

Muslim-Sikh Relations in British Punjab

Central Punjab was dominated by Jat peasents, most of them were either Muslim or Hindu while a minority were Sikhs. Later on most of these Hindu Jats had either became Muslim or Sikhs. Jats generally sympathized with each other due to sense of Biradari and even having family relations. Furthermore, Jats faced the same issues even if they belonged to different religions. When the Afghans came, they needed revenue to fund their military expeditions. As a result they began to over tax the Jats of central Punjab. The result was that the Muslim and Hindu Jats began helping the Sikh in any way they could. The Muslim Chathas were probably the most powerful Muslim Jats and originally acted as rivals to Sukarchakia misl due to the Zamzama Gun, but even many times they would ally with the misls when leading expeditions to Potohar to subdue to turbulent people of that region.

 

[INDIC]

A part one girl who is pretty, what is her name? Others are hardly anything to write about, especially chubby guys. And that to cherry picking pictures from actors/actresses. Dogras looks like other Indians but shade lighter. Their facial feutures are typical of that hindus in Bihar and UP. Another difference is they seem to posses mongloid genes also.

But Pakistanis seems to have Nordic Look.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Central Punjab was dominated by Jat peasents, most of them were either Muslim or Hindu while a minority were Sikhs. Later on most of these Hindu Jats had either became Muslim or Sikhs. Jats generally sympathized with each other due to sense of Biradari and even having family relations. Furthermore, Jats faced the same issues even if they belonged to different religions. When the Afghans came, they needed revenue to fund their military expeditions. As a result they began to over tax the Jats of central Punjab. The result was that the Muslim and Hindu Jats began helping the Sikh in any way they could. The Muslim Chathas were probably the most powerful Muslim Jats and originally acted as rivals to Sukarchakia misl due to the Zamzama Gun, but even many times they would ally with the misls when leading expeditions to Potohar to subdue to turbulent people of that region.

What about Gujjars of central punjab in those times?

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

But Pakistanis seems to have Nordic Look.

Well you sure love this picture, from facial feutures they seem to be from punjab village and clearly better looking then even bhaiya actors from India. If you are concentrating on skin tone, then remember unlike Indians who stay dark even in Europe, these punjabis get lighter if they dont work in field. Unless they happen to be churas.

 

[INDIC]

Well you sure love this picture, from facial feutures they seem to be from punjab village and clearly better looking then even bhaiya actors from India. If you are concentrating on skin tone, then remember unlike Indians who stay dark even in Europe, these punjabis get lighter if they dont work in field. Unless they happen to be churas.

 

[Rafi]

Punjab being the largest influence, is more like England in the UK, but Punjabis are very excepting and open, even if this Mexican lady lived and learned a few words of Punjabi she would be automatically considered a Punjabi.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

I will not cherry pick, instead i will post pictures of number 1 leading bihari actors. Very good looking people no doubt, but i can see why bollywood would rather take risk with Lahoris then established bojpuri actors in leading roles. Lol

Here is 4 lahoris in leading roles this year bollywood movies.

a part from Fawad, rest are horrible actors. Still bollywood don't care and would rather have lahoris.

 

[jandk]

Dograa are much better looking than central punjabis, I can guarantee. Which is why you were trying to associate your people with us