PMLN and the Amritsari Vote

[El Sidd]

jaa maaf kar, khulaa nahi hai mere paas abhi

Na diye bhi apka bhala

 

[villageidiot]

nope there's a big pop of Urdu speakers in Lahore, Multan, Faisalabad, and to some extent Pindi - they just assimilated better so your hear little of em

Maybe that's another thing that goes to show Punjabis' aversion to ethno-fascism unlike some ghairatmand quoms

 

[Neelo]

Maybe that's another thing that goes to show Punjabis' aversion to ethno-fascism unlike some ghairatmand quoms

Punjabi identity is relatively recent, which initiated from the onset of the 18th century.

Prior to that, the sense and perception of a common Punjabi ethno-cultural identity and community did not exist, even though the majority of the clans of Punjab shared linguistic, cultural and racial commonalities. Most of the major Punjabi clans migrated from other places. This is in strong contrast to other ethnic groups in Pakistan.

Overall, Punjabi identity now is based on linguistic, geographical and cultural factors and is independent of historical origin, clan or religion. Thus anyone who adopts Punjabi language as their mother tongue and adopts Punjabi culture over time can be considered a Punjabi.

Punjabi people are actually quite unique in the sense that they are not exactly "one nation", but rather a collection of people who share a similar culture and language.

They view themselves independent of historical origin and view assimilation and integration into Punjabi culture as a requisite for being considered “Punjabi”.


Tribes & Clans
The Punjabi people were a heterogeneous group and were subdivided into a number of clans called brotherhood (برادری‎ biradari) or tribes. However, with the passage of time and increased urbanization of Punjab, these tribal structures have begun being replaced with a more cohesive and holistic society. Through community building and group cohesiveness, new pillars of Punjabi society are being formed. In relative contemporary terms, we can broadly break down Punjabis into the following groups:

Jat
Origin: Sindh
Clans: Jatt, Aulakh, Bajwa, Chaudhary, Chohan, Dhankhar, Jaswal, Kharal, Khokhar, Khullar, Randhawa, Sandhu, Sidhu, Sial, Sodhi, Sohal, Virk.

The Jats were of community of non-elite pastoralists from Sindh, who began migrating north into Punjab between 1000 to 1200 AD. During this time Punjab had not been fully cultivated and thus many took up tilling in region between the Chenab and Ravi rivers. By early Mughal times in 1600s, the term "Jat" had become loosely synonymous with "peasant", although some Jats had come to own land and exert local influence by this time also. Before they settled in Punjab, the pastoralist Jats had little exposure to any mainstream religions and were known to worship and pray to their dead ancestors, in a practice called Jathera. Only after settling in Punjab, did they become more integrated into the agrarian world, and over time adopted the dominant religion of the people in their midst. Thus, most Jats settled in West Punjab adopted Islam over time, whereas those settled in East Punjab would adopt Hinduism, and later Sikhism. Jats were also recognized as “upstart” warriors, a coherent social group with a tribal war-like mentality. The Mughals recognized this and provided them with military and governing experience for their use. Thus, Jat successes were a part of the Mughal success.

Arain
Origin: Unknown (proposed Sindhi or Kamboja origin)
Clans: Mian, Mehar Dhankhar, Rayeen

The origin of the Arain community is uncertain – some claim Arian’s were a farming community in Sindh which migrated north to Punjab between 1000 and 1200 AD, similar to the Jats. Others claim the Arians are indigenous to Punjab and descend from the Vedic Kamboja tribe, while others claim they descend from Rajputs. Ishtiaq Ahmed, a political scientist and member of the Arain community, acknowledges that some early Arain texts ascribe a Persian origin as well as Rajput descent. The Arain claims of Arab Semitic lineage are largely based on myth as per genetic studies, which show no Arab or Jewish link. During colonial rule, the Arians were the main Muslim-landowners in urban areas of Punjab, which was in contrast to the Jats, who were the main landowners in the rural areas of Punjab. When the British wanted to further develop Punjab’s fertile plain, the Arains were brought in to cultivate lands around the cities, and were one of the preferred agricultural clans to assist with the opening up of the agrarian frontier in canal colonies.

Rajput
Origin: Unknown (proposed Scythian or Ganges origin)
Clans: Bhatti, Chib, Chohan, Janjua, Minhas, Jarral

The origin of the Rajputs unknown and several theories exist on their origin. During the colonial era, Rajputs were said to be descendants of Scythians, a Central Asian tribe who settled in the Indus Valley during Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek rule in around 150 BCE, eventually taking control of the Indus Valley by establishing several small kingdoms in around 100 BCE. However, recent research suggests the Scythian origin is more of a myth, and that the Rajputs came from a variety of ethnic and geographical backgrounds from both the Indus Valley and Ganges plain. Before 1400 AD, the term "Rajput" was associated with people of mixed-caste Hindu origin from the Ganges plain, and denoted a hereditary political status, which was not necessarily very high: the term could denote a wide range of rank-holders, from an actual son of a king to the lowest-ranked landholder. Rajput came to denote its present social class, when various tribal and nomadic groups in what is today Rajasthan became landed aristocrats, and transformed into the ruling class. These groups assumed the title "Rajput" as part of their claim to higher social positions and ranks. The early medieval literature suggests that this newly formed Rajput class comprised people from multiple castes.

Gujjar
Origin: Unknown (proposed Rajasthan/Gujarat origin)
Clans: Gurjar, Gujjar, Baisla

Historians and anthropologists differ on the issue of Gujjar origin. One view suggests that the early Gurjars came from the region around the Caspian Sea (Bahr-e-Khizar), from which the tribe got its name from (either as Khizar, Guzar, Gujur, Gurjara, or Gujjar), however this is mainly considered a colonial myth. Other theories suggest the Gujjar are descendants of Indo-Aryan Vedic tribes, which settled between the Aravalli Range (in modern Rajasthan) to the Mahi River (in modern Gujarat). Some of these groups then migrated north into Punjab and west into Sindh. In Sanskrit texts, the ethnonym has sometimes been interpreted as "destroyer of the enemy": gur meaning "enemy" and ujjar meaning "destroyer". Although traditionally they have been involved in agriculture (most famously, dairy and livestock farming), Gurjars are a large heterogeneous group that is internally differentiated in terms of culture, religion, occupation, and socio-economic status. The historical role of Gurjars has been quite diverse in society, at one end they are founders of several kingdoms, districts, cities, towns, and villages, and at the other end, they are also nomads with no land of their own.

Awan
Origins: Unknown (proposed indigenous Punjabi)

Awans are claimed to be an indigenous community to northern Punjab’s Potohar Plateau, according to Ahmad Hasan Dani, who then migrated to western Punjab, right up to the edge of Baloch and Pashtun territories. Claims that the Awan tribe trace their origins back to Imam Ali, through his son Al-Abbas ibn Ali, is largely based on myth, as genetic studies show no Semitic link to the Awans. Historians have described the Awan tribe as valiant warriors and farmers who imposed their supremacy on their rivals around the Salt Ranges of Punjab and established large colonies along the Indus River. Awans historically were of the zamindar or landowning class, and many Awan families, to this day, live on and cultivate land which their ancestors have held for centuries. The tract of land running from Attock towards the southern Salt Range has at various points in history been called the Awan-Kari, or the 'Abode of the Awans'. Awan tribesmen often carry titles, such as Malik or Khan, which is typical to the region of those who own tracts of ancestral land.

Tarkhan
Origin: Indigenous Punjabi
Clans: Panesar, Ramgharia, Sohal

Tarkhan are said to be an indigenous Punjabi community and who have traditionally been associated with carpentry for centuries. Tarkhan were said to have owned large areas of land and, in some cases, whole villages, although this is based on unreliable colonial sources.

Khatri
Origin: Unknown
Clans: Ahuja, Khukhrain, Kohli, Malhotra, Malik, Oberoi, Roshan, Sabharwal, Sahni, Sethi, Sodhiand Vohra

The origin of Khatri is unknown and is mainly based upon several myths. Some consider themselves to be of “pure Vedic descent” and claim the Kshatriya status of the Hindu varna system. Khatri were known to be employed as soldiers during Mughal rule, but by colonial rule they had mostly become merchants and scribes...

Sheikh
Origin: Punjabi Brahmins (Indigenous Punjabi)
Clans: Arora, Bali, Bedi, Chawla, Chiber, Chopra, Datt, Mohan, Mohyal, Paracha and Sehgal.

Punjabis with the surname or titles belonging to Sheikh are essentially Punjabi Brahmin Hindus who converted to Islam. Most trace their lineage back to the groups listed above. In some cases, families chose to abandon their clan name in order to differentiate themselves from there Hindu counterparts. However, in order to maintain some form of “superiority”, the name Sheikh was adopted, as it was traced back to Arab royals which had come to the subcontinent to establish Islam. By adopting an Arab title, it was thought they could maintain their “high caste” status within the Muslim Punjabi community.

Sayyid
Origin: Middle East
Groups: Hasani, Husaini, Zaidi, Rizvi, Naqvi, Syed

Punjabis with Sayyid surnames or titles belong to the Hasani (descendants of Hasan), Husaini (descendants of Husayn), Zaidi (descendants of Zayd ibn Ali, grandson of Husayn), Rizvi, (descendants of Ali al-Ridha), and Naqvi (descendants of Ali al-Hadi) clans. However, only a small fraction of those who identify as Sayyid in Punjab have a Semitic genetic link to the Middle East. A study of Y chromosomes of self-identified Sayyids by Elise M. S. Belle, Saima Shah, Tudor Parfitt and Mark G. Thomas showed that "self-identified Sayyids had no less genetic diversity than those non-Sayyids from the same regions”, which suggests that there is no biological basis to the belief that all Sayyids in Punjab, or the subcontinent as whole, share a recent common ancestry with Arabs Sayyids. The vast majority of Sayyid’s could very well be Punjabi Brahmins who converted to Islam, yet wanted to maintain a “superior” role in Muslim communities. Hence, Sayyid was used more as a title or honorific in Punjab, similar to how Sheikh was and is used today. Sayyid is also used sometimes in-front of a given name as a title, which has added to the confusion.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Punjabi identity is relatively recent, which initiated from the onset of the 18th century.

if I show you literature dating back from much, much before 18th century you'll cry and ask me to stop sharing poetry and written works of travelers and explorers - you made up your mind what can we do?

Prior to that, the sense and perception of a common Punjabi ethno-cultural identity and community did not exist, even though the majority of the clans of Punjab shared linguistic, cultural and racial commonalities. Most of the major Punjabi clans migrated from other places. This is in strong contrast to other ethnic groups in Pakistan.

Overall, Punjabi identity now is based on linguistic, geographical and cultural factors and is independent of historical origin, clan or religion. Thus anyone who adopts Punjabi language as their mother tongue and adopts Punjabi culture over time can be considered a Punjabi.

Punjabi people are actually quite unique in the sense that they are not exactly "one nation", but rather a collection of people who share a similar culture and language.

They view themselves independent of historical origin and view assimilation and integration into Punjabi culture as a requisite for being considered “Punjabi”.


Tribes & Clans
The Punjabi people were a heterogeneous group and were subdivided into a number of clans called brotherhood (برادری‎ biradari) or tribes. However, with the passage of time and increased urbanization of Punjab, these tribal structures have begun being replaced with a more cohesive and holistic society. Through community building and group cohesiveness, new pillars of Punjabi society are being formed. In relative contemporary terms, we can broadly break down Punjabis into the following groups:

Jat
Origin: Sindh
Clans: Jatt, Aulakh, Bajwa, Chaudhary, Chohan, Dhankhar, Jaswal, Kharal, Khokhar, Khullar, Randhawa, Sandhu, Sidhu, Sial, Sodhi, Sohal, Virk.

I am a Khokhar and the idea that they(or you can maybe say a bigger Jutt tribe) were successful because of sucking up to Mughals is ludicrous, people of the clan were playing an important role from the Hindu shahi times in a 7th-8th century, In Delhi sultanate, tughlaq came to power cause khokhar clansmen were the only people group supporting Ghazi Malik, he was a no-name fiefdom holder before their support than khokhar clan leaders conquered Delhi, made him the king of Delhi, and since Ghazi malik famously hated the Mongols went and fought off the Mongol incursions in south Punjab for him (south Punjab was the route Mongols used as Ghakar territory in north Punjab didnt allow them to come from their territory)
after Tughlaq one of the Delhi dynasty was made by the Khokhar clan leader, then Jasrant Khokhar another one who played kingmaker in the surrounding regions and controlled Punjab and Jammu regions and for a short time took control of delhi - if anything Jutts were better off before Mughals as Mughals brought more strict control unlike before and Zamindari system which made people peasantry and tribal systems took a hit

The Jats were of community of non-elite pastoralists from Sindh, who began migrating north into

Punjab between 1000 to 1200 AD.

many different theories...

During this time Punjab had not been fully cultivated and thus many took up tilling in region between the Chenab and Ravi rivers. By early Mughal times in 1600s, the term "Jat" had become loosely synonymous with "peasant", although some Jats had come to own land and exert local influence by this time also. Before they settled in Punjab, the pastoralist Jats had little exposure to any mainstream religions and were known to worship and pray to their dead ancestors, in a practice called Jathera. Only after settling in Punjab, did they become more integrated into the agrarian world, and over time adopted the dominant religion of the people in their midst. Thus, most Jats settled in West Punjab adopted Islam over time, whereas those settled in East Punjab would adopt Hinduism, and later Sikhism. Jats were also recognized as “upstart” warriors, a coherent social group with a tribal war-like mentality. The Mughals recognized this and provided them with military and governing experience for their use. Thus, Jat successes were a part of the Mughal success.

Arain
Origin: Unknown (proposed Sindhi or Kamboja origin)
Clans: Mian, Mehar Dhankhar, Rayeen

The origin of the Arain community is uncertain – some claim Arian’s were a farming community in Sindh which migrated north to Punjab between 1000 and 1200 AD, similar to the Jats. Others claim the Arians are indigenous to Punjab and descend from the Vedic Kamboja tribe, while others claim they descend from Rajputs. Ishtiaq Ahmed, a political scientist and member of the Arain community, acknowledges that some early Arain texts ascribe a Persian origin as well as Rajput descent. The Arain claims of Arab Semitic lineage are largely based on myth as per genetic studies, which show no Arab or Jewish link. During colonial rule, the Arians were the main Muslim-landowners in urban areas of Punjab, which was in contrast to the Jats, who were the main landowners in the rural areas of Punjab. When the British wanted to further develop Punjab’s fertile plain, the Arains were brought in to cultivate lands around the cities, and were one of the preferred agricultural clans to assist with the opening up of the agrarian frontier in canal colonies.

Rajput
Origin: Unknown (proposed Scythian or Ganges origin)
Clans: Bhatti, Chib, Chohan, Janjua, Minhas, Jarral

The origin of the Rajputs unknown and several theories exist on their origin. During the colonial era, Rajputs were said to be descendants of Scythians, a Central Asian tribe who settled in the Indus Valley during Greco-Bactrian and Indo-Greek rule in around 150 BCE, eventually taking control of the Indus Valley by establishing several small kingdoms in around 100 BCE. However, recent research suggests the Scythian origin is more of a myth, and that the Rajputs came from a variety of ethnic and geographical backgrounds from both the Indus Valley and Ganges plain. Before 1400 AD, the term "Rajput" was associated with people of mixed-caste Hindu origin from the Ganges plain, and denoted a hereditary political status, which was not necessarily very high: the term could denote a wide range of rank-holders, from an actual son of a king to the lowest-ranked landholder. Rajput came to denote its present social class, when various tribal and nomadic groups in what is today Rajasthan became landed aristocrats, and transformed into the ruling class. These groups assumed the title "Rajput" as part of their claim to higher social positions and ranks. The early medieval literature suggests that this newly formed Rajput class comprised people from multiple castes.

Gujjar
Origin: Unknown (proposed Rajasthan/Gujarat origin)
Clans: Gurjar, Gujjar, Baisla

Historians and anthropologists differ on the issue of Gujjar origin. One view suggests that the early Gurjars came from the region around the Caspian Sea (Bahr-e-Khizar), from which the tribe got its name from (either as Khizar, Guzar, Gujur, Gurjara, or Gujjar), however this is mainly considered a colonial myth. Other theories suggest the Gujjar are descendants of Indo-Aryan Vedic tribes, which settled between the Aravalli Range (in modern Rajasthan) to the Mahi River (in modern Gujarat). Some of these groups then migrated north into Punjab and west into Sindh. In Sanskrit texts, the ethnonym has sometimes been interpreted as "destroyer of the enemy": gur meaning "enemy" and ujjar meaning "destroyer". Although traditionally they have been involved in agriculture (most famously, dairy and livestock farming), Gurjars are a large heterogeneous group that is internally differentiated in terms of culture, religion, occupation, and socio-economic status. The historical role of Gurjars has been quite diverse in society, at one end they are founders of several kingdoms, districts, cities, towns, and villages, and at the other end, they are also nomads with no land of their own.

Awan
Origins: Unknown (proposed indigenous Punjabi)

Awans are claimed to be an indigenous community to northern Punjab’s Potohar Plateau, according to Ahmad Hasan Dani, who then migrated to western Punjab, right up to the edge of Baloch and Pashtun territories. Claims that the Awan tribe trace their origins back to Imam Ali, through his son Al-Abbas ibn Ali, is largely based on myth, as genetic studies show no Semitic link to the Awans. Historians have described the Awan tribe as valiant warriors and farmers who imposed their supremacy on their rivals around the Salt Ranges of Punjab and established large colonies along the Indus River. Awans historically were of the zamindar or landowning class, and many Awan families, to this day, live on and cultivate land which their ancestors have held for centuries. The tract of land running from Attock towards the southern Salt Range has at various points in history been called the Awan-Kari, or the 'Abode of the Awans'. Awan tribesmen often carry titles, such as Malik or Khan, which is typical to the region of those who own tracts of ancestral land.

Tarkhan
Origin: Indigenous Punjabi
Clans: Panesar, Ramgharia, Sohal

Tarkhan are said to be an indigenous Punjabi community and who have traditionally been associated with carpentry for centuries. Tarkhan were said to have owned large areas of land and, in some cases, whole villages, although this is based on unreliable colonial sources.

Khatri
Origin: Unknown
Clans: Ahuja, Khukhrain, Kohli, Malhotra, Malik, Oberoi, Roshan, Sabharwal, Sahni, Sethi, Sodhiand Vohra

The origin of Khatri is unknown and is mainly based upon several myths. Some consider themselves to be of “pure Vedic descent” and claim the Kshatriya status of the Hindu varna system. Khatri were known to be employed as soldiers during Mughal rule, but by colonial rule they had mostly become merchants and scribes...

Sheikh
Origin: Punjabi Brahmins (Indigenous Punjabi)
Clans: Arora, Bali, Bedi, Chawla, Chiber, Chopra, Datt, Mohan, Mohyal, Paracha and Sehgal.

Punjabis with the surname or titles belonging to Sheikh are essentially Punjabi Brahmin Hindus who converted to Islam. Most trace their lineage back to the groups listed above. In some cases, families chose to abandon their clan name in order to differentiate themselves from there Hindu counterparts. However, in order to maintain some form of “superiority”, the name Sheikh was adopted, as it was traced back to Arab royals which had come to the subcontinent to establish Islam. By adopting an Arab title, it was thought they could maintain their “high caste” status within the Muslim Punjabi community.

Sayyid
Origin: Middle East
Groups: Hasani, Husaini, Zaidi, Rizvi, Naqvi, Syed

Punjabis with Sayyid surnames or titles belong to the Hasani (descendants of Hasan), Husaini (descendants of Husayn), Zaidi (descendants of Zayd ibn Ali, grandson of Husayn), Rizvi, (descendants of Ali al-Ridha), and Naqvi (descendants of Ali al-Hadi) clans. However, only a small fraction of those who identify as Sayyid in Punjab have a Semitic genetic link to the Middle East. A study of Y chromosomes of self-identified Sayyids by Elise M. S. Belle, Saima Shah, Tudor Parfitt and Mark G. Thomas showed that "self-identified Sayyids had no less genetic diversity than those non-Sayyids from the same regions”, which suggests that there is no biological basis to the belief that all Sayyids in Punjab, or the subcontinent as whole, share a recent common ancestry with Arabs Sayyids. The vast majority of Sayyid’s could very well be Punjabi Brahmins who converted to Islam, yet wanted to maintain a “superior” role in Muslim communities. Hence, Sayyid was used more as a title or honorific in Punjab, similar to how Sheikh was and is used today. Sayyid is also used sometimes in-front of a given name as a title, which has added to the confusion.

 

[Edevelop]

Today they support and view PMLN no differently than how some Urdu speakers in Karachi viewed MQM in the past- the difference between the two communities couldn’t be any different. Urdu speakers seem to have evolved over the past 75 years and have always been racially profiled as not being “real Pakistanis” despite always defending their identity and referring to themselves as Pakistani only.

PMLN supporters are still impressed by paved roads being called “gifts”. What’s also interesting is how they like to maintain a separate identity from the “other Punjabis”. You’ll notice them intermarrying and trying to keep the wealth and power they’ve amassed within the community.

PMLN today was not around in 1947, and it would be foolish to assume that this Zia ul Haq invented political party is a continuation of the original Muslim League. We all know how Zia’s former predecessor deposed of Fatima Jinnah.

Rather, PMLN has disturbing similarities with the former Punjab Unionist Party which disappeared in 1947.

They too were heavily dominated by East Punjabi Muslims. Funny enough, they opposed Pakistan's independence and represented to views of the landlords and wealthy elite of Punjab - sound familiar?

I'm not saying all Amritsaris vote for PMLN, and I'm not saying all Urdu speakers vote for MQM, but what I'm noticing is how the hardcore PMLN supporters narrative is slowly beginning to change its tone from a fake nationalist view to a fake "Punjabi" view, which is disingenuous.

1. East Punjabis don't represent the majority of Punjab's population.

2. PMLN's entire leadership actually consist of Kashmiri immigrants to East Punjab. Ethnically Nawaz Sharif's entire family are all Kashmiris, who settled in East Punjab at the turn of the 19th century due to famine in the Kashmir Valley.

Hilariously, most Kashmiris from the valley disown them and the Sharif’s themselves regard Jati Umra as their ancestral home.

If I’m trying further trying to dig a hole for the Pakistan Dalla Movement on social media, I would push this narrative hard. These people have never had Pakistan’s interests at heart…ever.

On one hand you PTI supporters say PML-N will be "clean sweeped" come election time and now you want to claim there is a massive support for PML-N amongst Punjabis of East Punjab origin. Wah wah. As for Kashmiris, just want to clarify they represent something like 2%-5% of Pakistan's population so out goes their voting significance.

MQM is an Indian party. RAW backed and armed them in attempt to make Karachi an independent state. There is no party in Pakistan like that. You need to get your head checked.

 

[Neelo]

if I show you literature dating back from much, much before 18th century you'll cry and ask me to stop sharing poetry and written works of travelers and explorers - you made up your mind what can you do?

I am a Khokhar and the idea that they(or you can maybe say a bigger Jutt tribe) were successful because of sucking up to Mughals is ludicrous, people of the clan were playing an important role from the Hindu shahi times in a 7th-8th century, In Delhi sultanate, tughlaq came to power cause khokhar clansmen were the only people group supporting Ghazi Malik, he was a no-name fiefdom holder before their support than khokhar clan leaders conquered Delhi, made him the king of Delhi, and since Ghazi malik famously hated the Mongols went and fought off the Mongol incursions in south Punjab for him (south Punjab was the route Mongols used as Ghakar territory in north Punjab didnt allow them to come from their territory)
after Tughlaq one of the Delhi dynasty was made by the Khokhar clan leader, then Jasrant Khokhar another one who played kingmaker in the surrounding regions and controlled Punjab and Jammu regions and for a short time took control of delhi - if anything Jutts were better off before Mughals as Mughals brought more strict control unlike before and Zamindari system which made people peasantry and tribal systems took a hit

You just seem upset. So I’m going to let you cool down first.

On one hand you PTI supporters say PML-N will be "clean sweeped" come election time and now you want to claim there is a massive support for PML-N amongst Punjabis of East Punjab origin. Wah wah. As for Kashmiris, just want to clarify they represent something like 2%-5% of Pakistan's population so out goes their voting significance.

Show me where I stated PMLN have massive support? It amazes me how patwaris don’t read. They literally concoct theories in their little minds, get angry about that theory and then reply back as if the OP said something.

I’m referring to PMLN’s core supporters and who they are and why’re entrenched into supporting this failed political ideology.

This is a good reason why. Try and keep up.

PS: If your Pakistan Dalla Movement were so confident about elections, they wouldn’t be doing everything in their power to try and cancel or delay the elections.

Huun yehn na…

 

[Maula Jatt]

You just seem upset. So I’m going to let you cool down first.

bro I am not angry or upset, I just think most of the points you are making on this thread are ridiculous, apologies if you think I am upset or something
I am not

 

[Mirzali Khan]

PTI leading in all polls by a huge margin, there is still some support of PMLN within Punjab.

Interestingly, Pashtun nationalist parties are effectively dead.

demanded their own country in the end to avoid partition

Where did they demand their own country?

In reality it should be three….Seraikistan, Potohar with the remaining districts remaining as Punjab.

Damn

So you want 3 provinces to come out of Punjab?

 

[M. Sarmad]

There's no 'Amritsari' identity or vote in Punjab...

This is a ridiculously stupid thread

@Neelo
Where are you from?
What's your ethnicity?

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Maybe that's another thing that goes to show Punjabis' aversion to ethno-fascism unlike some ghairatmand quoms

If we compare, there's more support for PMLN in Punjab than actual Pashtun nationalist parties in KPK

Why is that exactly?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Informative share

I have saved the historic picture of this "cultured" Sharif family

I suggest folks download the images and spread it openly on Social Media to viral this stuff


Today Maryem owns 11,000 Acres of Pakistani Land for which no taxes are paid

 

[airmarshal]

The way Sharif family behaves shows their roots. They act like they have got power and wealth they did not deserve. Their behaviour reflects their red light roots. If you look at Maryam, her antics and her language, you will see what level of education and upbringing she has.

 

[Tamerlane]

But decentralization is the key. Centralization only suits the Hyenas that feed from this inefficient machinery.Decentralization is our only salvation.

That's what I believe. The current provinces should be disbanded and divisions should replace them. There are around 40 divisions in Pakistan, each with it's main city.

There's nothing wrong with people having ethnic affiliation, as long as it is a matter of identity. Their ethnicity won't be effected, but Pakistan needs good administration to move forward. Having more manageable units of administration will provide better services to people and help spread development to all the parts of the country.

 

[Tamerlane]

Unfortunately, even if PTI win a 2/3 majority I don't see them doing anything revolutionary like creating a new constitution, switching to a presidential system, making 40 provinces, purging the military, bureaucracy and judiciary, etc.

They've talked about creating South Punjab province, but never mentioned Karachi province. They have a strong tendency towards maintaining the status quo.

 

[Neelo]

There's no 'Amritsari' identity or vote in Punjab...

This is a ridiculously stupid thread

@Neelo
Where are you from?
What's your ethnicity?

Yahoodi
Israel

That's what I believe. The current provinces should be disbanded and divisions should replace them. There are around 40 divisions in Pakistan, each with it's main city.

There's nothing wrong with people having ethnic affiliation, as long as it is a matter of identity. Their ethnicity won't be effected, but Pakistan needs good administration to move forward. Having more manageable units of administration will provide better services to people and help spread development to all the parts of the country.

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View attachment 923836

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View attachment 923838

It would be best to retain the names “Punjab”, “Balochistan” and “Sindh”…because these regions are predominantly in Pakistan and we shouldn’t allow a certain neighbour to usurp these names like they did with the word “India”.

Otherwise I don’t disagree, but that’s way too many provinces.

The way Sharif family behaves shows their roots. They act like they have got power and wealth they did not deserve. Their behaviour reflects their red light roots. If you look at Maryam, her antics and her language, you will see what level of education and upbringing she has.

MBBS Fail Maryam Safdar? Daddy tried everything he could to get her to pass 2nd year Anatomy and after 2 supplies she was kicked out.

LOL.