Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[randomradio]

SAAB has had operational AESA radar for a long time (EriEye) and Pulse-Doppler fighter radar.
The source have been provided in this thread shows that IISc has been providing wafers,
and are trying to package the dies, so that they are actually useful.
That is very different from a power module, needed for a radar.

So have we, so have the Israelis.

These are digital radars.

Then you may already know of our recently inducted AEW&C.

We have plenty of AESA experience. We have reached a point where we can now compete with the Europeans in radar technology.

That's also why there was an anonymous complaint sent to the Indian MoD to have Uttam participate in the LCA's radar program.

What India can do now are GaN transistors in small quantities.
Before the production facility is up and running, you do not know the yield,
and do not know the price.

No. We are expanding on an existing production line. I don't know the exact numbers, but we may be expanding from a 3000 or 5000 modules per year to 100k to 200k modules per year capacity.

What happens if it cost $1M to produce a power module due to terrible yield?
The radar would cost $700M. Exaggerating of course , to show the problem.

We won't be establishing a foundry if we didn't know what we were doing. The fact is we have a massive enough market to ensure the stuff we make will be cheap.

The foundry will take care of demands from the civilian sector as well.

 

[omarrk]

Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other (F35,LSA, etc)

All except Rafale Jet deal. Thats for the Rafale Sticky Only.

Pls dont open any more thread pertaining to this topic. All are requested to post it in this one main thread.

@WAJsal @waz @Oscar
Request you for this sticky in order to collate all news, developments, updates under 1 place and also lead to a continuity for all such discussions

Threads on this topic from 1st of June 2016 onwards

1. https://defence.pk/threads/in-sweden-parrikar-to-negotiate-gripen-deal.448765/
2. https://defence.pk/threads/indias-d...tiating-gripen-fighter-deal-in-sweden.448736/
3. https://defence.pk/threads/gripen-e-beyond-hype-“reality-is-much-stormier-much-murkier-much-scarier”.439492/
4. https://defence.pk/threads/gripen-mii-production-deal-signed.434392/
5. https://defence.pk/threads/us-links...ect-to-manufacture-fighter-plan.448251/unread
6. https://defence.pk/threads/pentagon-backs-proposal-to-give-us-fighter-jets-‘make-in-india’-tag.447731/
7. https://defence.pk/threads/india-us...engine-under-make-in-india-initiative.448632/
8. https://defence.pk/threads/india-no...-production-of-f16-fighter-jets.448639/unread
9. https://defence.pk/threads/india-ke...combat-aircraft-manufacturing-project.448638/
10. https://defence.pk/threads/parrikar-trip-to-bofors-land.448586/
11. https://defence.pk/threads/lockheed...ndia-from-india-exported-to-the-world.443136/
12. https://defence.pk/threads/the-f-16-offer-to-india-—-india-might-refuse-it-but-pakistan-can’t-ignore-it.446934/
13. https://defence.pk/threads/is-parrikars-”-sasta-aur-tikau-”-logic-behind-india’s-f-16-interest-p.447647/
14. https://defence.pk/threads/india-could-become-next-hub-for-f-16-jets-in-a-blow-to-pakistan.445573/
15. https://defence.pk/threads/f-16v-vs-gripen-e-clear-winner-is-f-16v.444991/unread
16. https://defence.pk/threads/india-rejects-saabs-offer-to-develop-tejas-mk1a-aircraft.443907/unread
17. https://defence.pk/threads/f-16s-may-replace-india’s-obsolete-fleet-as-rafale-deal-stalling.443110/
18. https://defence.pk/threads/if-iaf-selects-f-16-we-will-make-it-in-india.442766/
19. https://defence.pk/threads/lockheed...-potential-for-made-in-india-f16-jets.442658/
20. https://defence.pk/threads/why-india-should-consider-lockheed-martins-f-16-offer.441731/
21. https://defence.pk/threads/pentagon-to-offer-f-35-to-india-in-upcoming-tech-transfer-talks.440757/
22. https://defence.pk/threads/lockheed-martin-to-offer-f-35-to-india.440688/
23. https://defence.pk/threads/lockheed...partner-to-make-fighter-jets-in-india.439476/
24. https://defence.pk/threads/in-exclusive-deal-india-to-get-‘most-advanced’-f-16-fighter-jets-by-2019-20.438848/
25. https://defence.pk/threads/gripen-mii-production-deal-signed.434392/
26. https://defence.pk/threads/us-wants-indias-fighter-jet-order-dangles-f-35.6368/
27. https://defence.pk/threads/lockheed-raises-pitch-for-f-16s.438257/
28. https://defence.pk/threads/make-in-...ghter-jets-set-to-take-off-next-month.437057/
29. https://defence.pk/threads/made-in-india’-f-16s-on-radar-thanks-to-fdi.435934/
30. https://defence.pk/threads/f-16s-on-radar-made-in-india’.435962/
31. https://defence.pk/threads/can-gripen-e-and-lca-tejas-co-exist-in-indian-air-force.435137/
32. https://defence.pk/threads/saab-offers-to-create-aerospace-system-under-make-in-india.435078/
33. https://defence.pk/threads/saab-adds-gan-aesa-co-dev-to-make-in-india-gripen-pitch.434318/
34. https://defence.pk/threads/air-chief-marshal-raha-to-visit-sweden-lca-mk2-aka-gripen-in.433861/

++++
This thread in senior sections is a latest discussion on probabilities and for exercise purposes to comprehend different views.

https://defence.pk/threads/indian-airforce-mmrca-lwf-alternate-discussion.448646/

++++

1. All members are requested to use this thread only.
2. In case any thread is missed pls request to merge it here.

Tagging all
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Break up of India on the way.

 

[X_Killer]

Indian state behaves like a beggar.

I have something better for you.

Ya must take it for a sortie over India
Enjoy your flight

Have a great day

 

[StraightShooter]

moreover, PDF is not the actual stage to have such informations. You may sign-up IDF for more credible information.

You'll get better understanding about these facts on Indian Defense forums whereas you're trying to find them of this biased Pakistani Defense forum, where anyone can be banned anytime.

I recall reading on IDF that both PDF & IDF have the same management but I agree that Indian members get banned more often on PDF than IDF. Most members of IDF are former members of PDF.

Joe Shearer
PROFESSIONAL, Male, from Hyderabad
Messages: 13,802 Ratings: +89 / 23,119 / -0
And this guys is a false-flagger and a Bangladeshi not Indian.
Check out, one of his reply.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/harsh-mander-commits-sedition.446516/

I am not sure if @Joe Shearer is a Bangladeshi or not but his family was closely associated with Bangladeshi politicians.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...useyn-shaheed-suhrawardy.414367/#post-8013050

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...useyn-shaheed-suhrawardy.414367/#post-8014223

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...useyn-shaheed-suhrawardy.414367/#post-8014387

 

[Ultima Thule]

I recall reading on IDF that both PDF & IDF have the same management but I agree that Indian members get banned more often on PDF than IDF. Most members of IDF are former members of PDF.

so why you are here go IDF you guys always trolled at PDF go to hell

 

[StraightShooter]

you guys always trolled at PDF

I never troll.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I never troll.

You and your countrymem always troll on PDF

I never troll.

 

[Incog_nito]

I am sure that IAF is going with Grippen....

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No. We are expanding on an existing production line. I don't know the exact numbers, but we may be expanding from a 3000 or 5000 modules per year to 100k to 200k modules per year capacity.

We won't be establishing a foundry if we didn't know what we were doing. The fact is we have a massive enough market to ensure the stuff we make will be cheap.

The foundry will take care of demands from the civilian sector as well.

This is a wafer. This is what IISc is producing.

This is what they are planning to do, according to your sources.

Before You have packaged die, the stuff is very hard to use.

In order to build a radar transceiver for AESA, you need a power module.
A GaN power module is hard to design, to be reliable.
It can take several years to design a power module and get it in production
once you have packaged die.

When You have a real system, You may suddenly discover some corner case,
which will require a redesign of the wafer, starting a new cycle.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I am sure that IAF is going with Grippen....

Anything is possible in an infinite universe.
Personally, I think it has a fair chance, but since the decision will be taken after the election,
a new government might have other ideas than the current.

Some factors speaking for Gripen are:
IAF appears to favour it according to some Indian professor, whose name escapes me.

Uses the same engine as planned for Tejas Mk 2/AMCA GE-414.
GE has promised MII production of GE-414.
India is working on Kaveri as a GE-414 replacement. This might allow Kaveri in Gripen E as well.

Gripen is actively developed and will be so for the foreseeable future.
Cost will be shared with all Gripen Users.
F-16 will be in a cash cow status for LM, and is unlikely to get further development,
so India will have to design all upgrades themselves.
Among things in the works is the possibility to control (stealthy) drones that can detect
adversaries without any active sensor on the Gripen fighter.
This may allow stealth adversaries to be detected earlier than the Gripen.

The F-16 total cost of ownership is higher due to higher CPFH even if it is slightly cheaper to buy.

The approved weaponry of Gripen is better aligned with Indias plans than that of F-16.
New weapons are much easier to Integrate on Gripen, than on F-16, and can in many cases be done by India without involvement of SAAB.

SAAB is the leader in GaN AESA fighter radar, and so far it appears to be way ahead of anyone else. This is valuable technology for ToT that can short-cut an India GaN AESA radar development by a number of years.

Pakistan is well trained in F-16, so they should know which weaknesses to exploit.
The F-16 Block 52 is more nimble than the Block 60 which the Block 70 F-16IN is based on.
The Block 70 of should be much better on BVR combat of course.

Flying the same type, increases the risk of friendly kills.

Gripen pilots have noticed that adversaries have problems detecting them, due to
a combination of low RCS ad EW capability.

Gripen is a fighter built for network centric warfare, allowing a Gripen act an AWACS
for another three Gripen.

The Gripen Man Machine interface offloads the pilot in a much smarter way, than the
old fashioned interface of the F-16.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Anything is possible in an infinite universe.
Personally, I think it has a fair chance, but since the decision will be taken after the election,
a new government might have other ideas than the current.

Some factors speaking for Gripen are:
IAF appears to favour it according to some Indian professor, whose name escapes me.

Uses the same engine as planned for Tejas Mk 2/AMCA GE-414.
GE has promised MII production of GE-414.
India is working on Kaveri as a GE-414 replacement. This might allow Kaveri in Gripen E as well.

Gripen is actively developed and will be so for the foreseeable future.
Cost will be shared with all Gripen Users.
F-16 will be in a cash cow status for LM, and is unlikely to get further development,
so India will have to design all upgrades themselves.

The F-16 total cost of ownership is higher due to higher CPFH even if it is slightly cheaper to buy.

The approved weaponry of Gripen is better aligned with Indias plans than that of F-16.
New weapons are much easier to Integrate on Gripen, than on F-16, and can in many cases be done by India without involvement of SAAB.

SAAB is the leader in GaN AESA fighter radar, and so far it appears to be way ahead of anyone else. This is valuable technology for ToT that can short-cut an India GaN AESA radar development by a number of years.

Pakistan is well trained in F-16, so they should know which weaknesses to exploit.
The F-16 Block 52 is more nimble than the Block 60 which the Block 70 F-16IN is based on.
The Block 70 of should be much better on BVR combat of course.

Flying the same type, increases the risk of friendly kills.

Gripen pilots have noticed that adversaries have problems detecting them, due to
a combination of low RCS ad EW capability.

Gripen is a fighter built for network centric warfare, allowing a Gripen act an AWACS
for another three Gripen.

The Gripen Man Machine interface offloads the pilot in a much smarter way, than the
old fashioned interface of the F-16.

Valid points raised.

 

[X_Killer]

Everybody has right to Share his/her speculations about their (Nation's) jet but when it comes to India. IAF wants to raise the Indigenous content and fighters in its inventory to reduce the "IMPORTED AIR FORCE" tag.

Tejas MK2 when compared to GRIPEN E will have many similarities. Hence, ADA thinks that GRIPEN E might create a void and pose a Threat for MK2 development.

All in all, I want to say that SE jet tender is not Officially raised and everybody should have to wait for something Official because as of now, SE jet tender is dependent on Tejas development. Government recently asked ADA to equip LCA with latest developed AESA, EW suite and some other techs with a strict timelines.

As far as 2019 elections are concerned, present Government will be re-elected according to the present scenario.

 

[BON PLAN]

IAF better keep buying su30mki , there is no other visible solution on sight at present.....
18 mki and 16 tejas yearly will makeup well to the depleting squ numbers....

better not to venture into any other project which might take time , considering the present international as well as national war situation....

Problem is that Tejas is a point defense fighter, with a air to ground second capacity, but with short legs and small weapon load. Su30 is a heavy air dominance fighter, not made for deep and silence penetration.
You need another plane.

 

[X_Killer]

Problem is that Tejas is a point defense fighter, with a air to ground second capacity, but with short legs and small weapon load. Su30 is a heavy air dominance fighter, not made for deep and silence penetration.
You need another plane.

Tejas is designed to replace oldies like mig-23, mig-21..
And Tejas is much more than what is expected from it and it is quite cheaper too.

For deep penetrations, FGFA And RAFALEs will be their to take care of it. Isn't it?

 

[BON PLAN]

Based on that, and the cost of Rafale, it lost...
As I said, not enough bang for the bucks.

REALITY IS THAT GRIPEN IS NICE FOR COUNTRY IN PEACE OR WITHOUT CREDIBLE AIR OPPONENT... it is the case of Switzerland, Brazil. Before for south africa, and some european country mainly relying on NATO for other stuff than air policy.
All the others need a more serious plane.

A high rank swiss air force top brass said few feek ago that in case of a war, the guy with the best plane is the one returning alive to its base (at same level of training).

Gripen is a nice light plane, with the quality of a light plane : affordable (not so far...), and the default : less potent.

Switzerland has only one war to win : economic. For the rest Gripen is enough. Even a KAI Golden Eagle F150 is enough.... and more affordable.

Tejas is designed to replace oldies like mig-23, mig-21..
And Tejas is much more than what is expected from it and it is quite cheaper too.

For deep penetrations, FGFA And RAFALEs will be their to take care of it. Isn't it?

Deep penetration by Tejas ? I don't think so. Too light.
Rafale is made from the beginning to ba able to made deep strike and to take car of it simultaneously, without help (it's why Dassault called the plane omni role )