India at Early Stages of Considering Whether it Wants the F-35 Stealth Fighters

[TopGun786]

Nope, no US fighter plane, please

Maybe you can ask China for J20.

 

[MirageBlue]

Yes, if India wants an American fighter, the F21 is the only viable candidate. It can be produced in India and customised per Indian requirements.

Actually the F-15EX is the most capable US candidate and is the likeliest to be offered by Boeing.

The F-21 is very unlikely to find favor with the IAF, just as the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet isn't of any interest either.

One of the strange things I found out was that the US offer for F-16Vs was costlier than Dassault's offer for Rafales. Operational and maintenance costs of the Rafale were apparently cheaper than those of the F-16V as was publicly informed by the Colombian Defense Minister. So can't say that the F-21 offer will be the lowest priced either.

The closest the F-21 ever really came to being in the pole position was when the IAF closed MRCA and then started the Single Engine Fighter (SEF) competition. That was effectively a 2 horse race between the F-21 and the Gripen E/F. But once that SEF competition was once again enlarged to allow twin engine fighters to enter and the MRFA was started, then the Rafale is once again the hot favorite.

This time around I am sincerely hoping that the MRFA RFP does not elicit any response from Eurofighter. They are best avoided as far as the IAF is concerned (Germany's attitude is of special concern to India) with their multi-national mess.

F-35 is in the very early stages of even being considered. While it is a very capable fighter and a true 5th gen at that, the biggest issues will not be S-400 related exemption (which I believe the US and India can handle via a data sharing prevention agreement) but rather the issue of ToT and setting up an assembly line to manufacture the F-35 in India.

The IAF loves the Rafale, is very happy with it's capabilities as of the Rafale F3R standard and there is a proper funded roadmap to get to F4, which is what will be offered. Rafales also have demonstrated very good availability and uptime, which are extremely important factors. There have been reports of multiple issues with F-35 fleets in multiple countries simply due to the complexity of the F-35, it's avionics, data management systems, etc.

Commonality is a big factor in cost savings and reducing number of types. Rafale comes up on top in all respects, especially given we already have 36 and both the squadrons were made operational in record time.

 

[-=virus=-]

didn't the S-400 acquisition essentially nuke any hope of India getting the F-35 ?

 

[MirageBlue]

No, they could send the naval version for INS Vikrant much earliar.

Why are you pushing this narrative of F-35 coming or being ready to come any time soon? It is not happening now, so quit this strange track.

Rafale M and Super Hornet were evaluated for STOBAR ops at INS Hansa. Was F-35B a part of it?

The IN has submitted it's report of which fighter it found more suitable as MRCBF. Was F-35B a part of that?

It's obvious that the F-35B does not feature in the IN's plans as of now. And later it is the TEDBF. So that's that. No need for speculation where there is no scope for it.

 

[Indos]

I think F16 that will get Indian MRCA program. Tata Lobbies will likely be able to get it done.

F35 is very unlikely. India is not USA first tier friends. Indonesia is also rejected to get F35. Thailand also gets similar rejection over their intention to get F35.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Maybe you can ask China for J20.

Chinese Maal, pakistaniyon ko mubarak ho.

We should stick on our AMCA project.

 

[IblinI]

We should stick on our AMCA project.

But when, at least 2035, don't you think its a bit late to join the stealth club？

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

When?

I'm fine with even ten years from now.

1. We should start getting HAL Tejas Mk1a From next year.

2. HAL Tejas Mk2 from 2027-28

3. HAL TEDBF and AMCA form 2031-32...

I have given realistic time-frame, not the fancy.

 

[IblinI]

I'm fine with even ten years from now.

1. We should start getting HAL Tejas Mk1a From next year.

2. HAL Tejas Mk2 from 2027-28

3. HAL TEDBF and AMCA form 2031-32...

I have given realistic time-frame, not the fancy.

All your list are based on the timeframe given by the company, are you expecting all of them to be on time?
I would be skeptical, your HAL ceo said the AMCA is expected to fly by 2030 and here you say getting them by 2031-32?????

I'm fine with even ten years from now.

1. We should start getting HAL Tejas Mk1a From next year.

2. HAL Tejas Mk2 from 2027-28

3. HAL TEDBF and AMCA form 2031-32...

I have given realistic time-frame, not the fancy.

So basically you are going to have a couple numbers of tejas, maybe some more rafale (if contract signed) before 2030, in seven long years, less than 50 jets? This is definitely not enought to support your big dream.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

I'm fine with even ten years from now.

1. We should start getting HAL Tejas Mk1a From next year.

2. HAL Tejas Mk2 from 2027-28

3. HAL TEDBF and AMCA form 2031-32...

I have given realistic time-frame, not the fancy.

Nonesense.

There is no date AMCA MK II yet as engine has not been finalized.

Non stealth AMCA MK I itself is being planned in the next decade.

Add another 30 years to these timelines.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625332229298855940

All your list are based on the timeframe given by the company, are you expecting all of them to be on time?
I would be skeptical, your HAL ceo said the AMCA is expected to fly by 2030 and here you say getting them by 2031-32?????


So basically you are going to have a couple numbers of tejas, maybe some more rafale (if contract signed) before 2030, in seven long years, less than 50 jets? This is definitely not enought to support your big dream.

10 years is for AMCA MK 1 will be non stealth version.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

All your list are based on the timeframe given by the company, are you expecting all of them to be on time?
I would be skeptical, your HAL ceo said the AMCA is expected to fly by 2030 and here you say getting them by 2031-32?????


So basically you are going to have a couple numbers of tejas, maybe some more rafale (if contract signed) before 2030, in seven long years, less than 50 jets? This is definitely not enought to support your big dream.

NO, By the HAl--- was Given timeline

1. We should start getting HAL Tejas Mk1a From next year. (There is evidence that flight testing has been conducted since last year, as it should be.

2. HAL Tejas Mk2 from 2027-2028—NO, HAL given the 2024-25 timeframe.

3. AMCA form 2031-32 (HAL given 2026-27), if there is no delay in HAL TEDBF, then 9-10 years should be sufficient because they are already doing HAL Tejas (Navy version).

Nonesense.

There is no date AMCA MK II yet as engine has not been finalized.

Non stealth AMCA MK I itself is being planned in the next decade.

Add another 30 years to these timelines.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625332229298855940

10 years is for AMCA MK 1 will be non stealth version.

Just like Pakistan's AZM program, it doesn't appear on only paper and scrapped after few years. Already is steal cuttings has started last year.

We will be able to deliver the first prototype in 2025-26 and have the first flight in 2026-27, C.B. Ananthakrishnan, Chairman and Managing Director of HAL said at DefExpo.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/fifth-gen-fighter-amca-can-be-rolled-out-in-three-years-after-project-sanction-scientists/article66066386.ece

 

[IblinI]

AMCA form 2031-32 (HAL given 2026-27)

Coincidencely the Pakistan member has shared this, even though it sounds not right when he said first flight in 7 years and induction in 10...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625332229298855940

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Coincidencely the Pakistan member has shared this, even though it sounds not right when he said first flight in 7 years and induction in 10...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625332229298855940

HAl is developing the Aircraft, not DRDO.

We will be able to deliver the first prototype in 2025-26 and have the first flight in 2026-27, C.B. Ananthakrishnan, Chairman and Managing Director of HAL said at DefExpo.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/fifth-gen-fighter-amca-can-be-rolled-out-in-three-years-after-project-sanction-scientists/article66066386.ece

 

[IblinI]

HAl is developing the Aircraft, not DRDO.

We will be able to deliver the first prototype in 2025-26 and have the first flight in 2026-27, C.B. Ananthakrishnan, Chairman and Managing Director of HAL said at DefExpo.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/fifth-gen-fighter-amca-can-be-rolled-out-in-three-years-after-project-sanction-scientists/article66066386.ece

2025 is just 2 years away, we shall see, but still, most of the project you listed are either having their first flight by late 20s or induction by 2030 and to build a considerable amount by mid 30s, early 40s..
How you gonna fill the requirement between now and then??

 

[nahtanbob]

Actually the F-15EX is the most capable US candidate and is the likeliest to be offered by Boeing.

The F-21 is very unlikely to find favor with the IAF, just as the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet isn't of any interest either.

One of the strange things I found out was that the US offer for F-16Vs was costlier than Dassault's offer for Rafales. Operational and maintenance costs of the Rafale were apparently cheaper than those of the F-16V as was publicly informed by the Colombian Defense Minister. So can't say that the F-21 offer will be the lowest priced either.

The closest the F-21 ever really came to being in the pole position was when the IAF closed MRCA and then started the Single Engine Fighter (SEF) competition. That was effectively a 2 horse race between the F-21 and the Gripen E/F. But once that SEF competition was once again enlarged to allow twin engine fighters to enter and the MRFA was started, then the Rafale is once again the hot favorite.

This time around I am sincerely hoping that the MRFA RFP does not elicit any response from Eurofighter. They are best avoided as far as the IAF is concerned (Germany's attitude is of special concern to India) with their multi-national mess.

F-35 is in the very early stages of even being considered. While it is a very capable fighter and a true 5th gen at that, the biggest issues will not be S-400 related exemption (which I believe the US and India can handle via a data sharing prevention agreement) but rather the issue of ToT and setting up an assembly line to manufacture the F-35 in India.

The IAF loves the Rafale, is very happy with it's capabilities as of the Rafale F3R standard and there is a proper funded roadmap to get to F4, which is what will be offered. Rafales also have demonstrated very good availability and uptime, which are extremely important factors. There have been reports of multiple issues with F-35 fleets in multiple countries simply due to the complexity of the F-35, it's avionics, data management systems, etc.

Commonality is a big factor in cost savings and reducing number of types. Rafale comes up on top in all respects, especially given we already have 36 and both the squadrons were made operational in record time.

Why choose F-21 ? Why not choose F-16 ? F-16 is the most cost efficient fighter