Lockheed Martin's F-16 block 70 (F-21) for India

[Paji]

Our forces are always 10 steps ahead of the Indians.

Sure, just like Gen Niazi was going to cut a corridor through India to link East and West Pakistan and Gen Musharraf was going to be Fateh Kahsmir by executing the Kargil operation.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I don't think IAF will be retiring the Su-30's anytime soon, plus think about that where would F-21 Stand in next 15 years ? China already bring Stealth fighters against IAF, and next decade PAF will be fielding the next Gen fighters, I think best way forward for IAF will be more Rafale's and than invest in 5th/6th Gen platform .

The Rafale won the MMRCA. Then India found out that the Rafale was too expensive to purchase in the volume they need.
So please explain why the Rafale is an alternative.

 

[Goritoes]

The Rafale won the MMRCA. Then India found out that the Rafale was too expensive to purchase in the volume they need.
So please explain why the Rafale is an alternative.

Prices can be re-negotiated, don't underestimate the negotiation power of a Baniya, As for the numbers of SQ's IAF is missing and wants to add can be changed, they are already operating with less SQ's than their AF desire, Good thing about modern tech is that you can deliver the similar punch with smaller numbers. F-21's just don't fit in IAF strategic decisions and there is a history where Indians were always reluctant in getting equipment from America because of several reasons including 1) Their relationship with Russians 2) seeing how USA blackmail countries who operate its equip (Pakistan).
IAF already inducted Rafales and they are already making War strategies with it, now starting a process for a complete new fighter jet from a different country which is rival to its major arm exporter, I just don't see that happening.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Prices can be re-negotiated, don't underestimate the negotiation power of a Baniya, As for the numbers of SQ's IAF is missing and wants to add can be changed, they are already operating with less SQ's than their AF desire, Good thing about modern tech is that you can deliver the similar punch with smaller numbers. F-21's just don't fit in IAF strategic decisions and there is a history where Indians were always reluctant in getting equipment from America because of several reasons including 1) Their relationship with Russians 2) seeing how USA blackmail countries who operate its equip (Pakistan).
IAF already inducted Rafales and they are already making War strategies with it, now starting a process for a complete new fighter jet from a different country which is rival to its major arm exporter, I just don't see that happening.

India and France negotiated between 2011 and 2015, and the price was still 100% above expected.
India already started a process to select something else than the Rafale.

 

[Super Falcon]

Still, better then Egyptian air force which is mix of all.

However, if india proceeds with F-21s, after 15 years India will only have American & French fighters from foreign countries. As most of russian fighter jets would be phased out or nearing retirement.



This is true, however it goes both ways. India by receiving F-16s most modern variant and by experiencing it first hand will know what kind of advantages PAF had. They will know exactly what extra features they will employ with latest variant to offset PAF's F-16 capabilities. We can eve boost doing exercises with Qatari Rafales that we now have experience of how to deal with Rafales, So owning a platform and with local manufacturing, it will be matter of time india will know all what PAF had in its cards. But good news for us is that F-16 is not the only aircraft we fly, the J-10C and its future variants will form PAF's tip of spear.





This is true because india is world's top 5th economy. We will not be able to match india's purchases if we don't change our mindset. We need to stop thinking about military equipment. We need to only think about our economy. Once we are a strong economy then everything else comes as a by product including latest tech military stuff.

Rightly said

Would the country be there in 10yrs??
Half of the country (Punjab) believes there golden era was when the other half (KP FATA BALOCHISTAN) was being bombed to oblivion in exchange for 3 Bill of CSF funding

Punjab is a big mindset issue we are here lotting other provinces resources

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Pakistan in the next decade will be severely outclassed by India.

There isn't even a decent economy or STEM base to support indigenous R&D, not much foreign options and quite expensive

I have been screaming this in the highest circles since 1998. There were no listeners, and their attention span and focus was downright ignorant and dereliction of duty. Now those in-actions, lack of focus, lack of institutional knowledge, lack of investment is coming home to roost. Just keep fooling Pakistanis with Angles fighting on our behalf, mindless drivel in shockingly backward education systems (both secular and religious), and false stories. This will not end well.

 

[TheSolution]

I have been screaming this in the highest circles since 1998. There were no listeners, and their attention span and focus was downright ignorant and dereliction of duty. Now those in-actions, lack of focus, lack of institutional knowledge, lack of investment is coming home to roost. Just keep fooling Pakistanis with Angles fighting on our behalf, mindless drivel in shockingly backward education systems (both secular and religious), and false stories. This will not end well.

It is depressing stuff and very serious. The level of incompetency, carelessness, and lack of quality human resource... it should be declared a state emergency and a body formed for nation-wide institutional reforms.

 

[Dalit]

India and France negotiated between 2011 and 2015, and the price was still 100% above expected.
India already started a process to select something else than the Rafale.

View attachment 917203

Are you still hoping that Saab wins an Indian tender? I know you never recovered after India selected Rafale...

F16 is a good jet, its one of the most battle proven jets. But everything has a weakness, and PAF knows F16s inside and out because of how long they have operated it. That probably prevents India from buying it.

Rest of the jets are just for show, if it don't have any decent battle experience its just an experiment not a fighter.

Also at the end of the day, technology only gets you so far. Flying experience under tough circumstances, and capability and skill far outweigh tech advantage. Always about the man behind the machine

Pakistan army's best ally has tried relentlessly to sell the heavily upgraded F-16 to India. Of course the Hindustanis aren't going to buy a fighter that it's enemy knows inside out. Nevertheless, doesn't it shock you just how desperate and dangerous Pakistan army's trusted ally is? Despite fully knowing that PAF operates these fighters the Americans are hellbent on selling it to Hindustan. What does that reveal to us?

 

[nahtanbob]

I have been screaming this in the highest circles since 1998. There were no listeners, and their attention span and focus was downright ignorant and dereliction of duty. Now those in-actions, lack of focus, lack of institutional knowledge, lack of investment is coming home to roost. Just keep fooling Pakistanis with Angles fighting on our behalf, mindless drivel in shockingly backward education systems (both secular and religious), and false stories. This will not end well.

If what you say is true is there any point even in competing with India ?

 

[Catalystic]

So…..what happened to the mighty tejas ??

Where is it? Is it even coming? Lol

Too much indian gloating, man u guys need to realise that these days any economy can be made to (artificially) tank within mins/hours and result is catastrophic. These powers won’t spare india or its people when its time. So don’t hype in this. The plans of wef aint pretty and no special favours on india either, you be reduced to same as others.
Its all a matter of time. Waqt qareeb hai, they gonna reduce you to rubble. See ukraine for example.

If what you say is true is there any point even in competing with India ?

He’s a military man do he can say.
But for most we go by the Quran and Hadiths. Those are enough for us. Ghazwa e hind will happen and its a reality staring you in the face. Everything else is ‘irrelevant’ in the grand scheme of things.
Unfortunately most ppl only look at small worldly pictures.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Ghazwa e hind will happen

I have read somewhere on the net that 1000 years of Islamic rule was Ghazwa e Hind its done and over with.

 

[Catalystic]

I have read somewhere on the net that 1000 years of Islamic rule was Ghazwa e Hind its done and over with.

Well, immediately after ghazwa e hind, the forces going over to assist imam mahdi and hazrat isa(as), did u read that?
Did that happen already? Think logically.

Ye abi hona ha. The final battle.
Ye sab economies dhari ki dhari reh jaingi lol, all effing irrelevant when time comes.

 

[VkdIndian]

Well, immediately after ghazwa e hind, the forces going over to assist imam mahdi and hazrat isa(as), did u read that?
Did that happen already? Think logically.

Ye abi hona ha. The final battle.
Ye sab economies dhari ki dhari reh jaingi lol, all effing irrelevant when time comes.

Are you planning to leave your cushy life in Canada and participate in this Jung? Or just want to follow and monitor the crusade on TV?

A little off topic but still……

 

[MirageBlue]

Lockheed Martin released video for India's F-16 (rebranded as F-21)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1626543159382577154

Features / core points in the video:

- Triple Launchers for Amraams. Can carry loads of AMRAAMs 120-D
- Most modern AESA radar
- Cutting edge EW Suite.
- Local production / assembly line with TATA.

To me, it seems a logical choice. The French are unwilling for 'Make in India' initiative for Rafales. However, Lockheed Martin has stepped up for this. I think F-16 has very good chances for india's MMRCA deal.

The French are more than willing to go with local assembly. Their only primary demand is that it has to have an order of at least 100 Rafales.

Now that the Indian Navy has chosen the Rafale M (as per most trustworthy sources), the sane thing would be to go in for 74 Rafale F4s for the IAF (enough for 4 squadrons) and 26 Rafale Ms for the IN and go in for a govt to govt contract instead of the never ending tamasha that is the MRFA contest.

 

[nahtanbob]

The French are more than willing to go with local assembly. Their only primary demand is that it has to have an order of at least 100 Rafales.

Now that the Indian Navy has chosen the Rafale M (as per most trustworthy sources), the sane thing would be to go in for 74 Rafale F4s for the IAF (enough for 4 squadrons) and 26 Rafale Ms for the IN and go in for a govt to govt contract instead of the never ending tamasha that is the MRFA contest.

Rafale has already supplied 36. For 64 aircraft it is not worth the assembly price. the real question is whether Dassault will allow India to incorporate 3rd party weapons on its aircraft and at what price