Lieutenant General Salman Fayyaz Ghani Sacked/Resigned

[MastanKhan]

Same thing happened under Mushy and now we are seeing the fruits of the original purge whereby sharabi kababi lollywood dalay look a like and sooar ki shakal walay generals have risen to the top.

Hi,

Same thing did not happen under Mushy---.

He kicked out idiots who wanted to fight the USA---.

 

[Rank]

Social media is full of lies. This video proves CC was there and he tried to negotiate with the angry protesters, they did not listen and started to destroy everything, they were probably banging on his gates or climbed over them, its not rocket science, also keep in mind noone knew what the protesters were going to do, he was being polite to them and they destroyed his house, his family can be seen too. The same with other area of mob attacks.

These army people had 2 choices, call for back up and kill protesters or show restraint and talk to them, they made the right decision. If it was a military base and they were going for sensitive locations, they certainly would have been shot, come to Mangla base and you will find out.

The protesters were indeed in the wrong, it was 100% PTI youth. The army could have killed them and had the right because they were trespassing, but they showed restraint.

Just because officers showed restraint, the pti followers are making propaganda that they sided with them, some are saying they got scared, playing both sides and dirty politics, today Chief Justice is being praised but the same CJ was called traitor when he removed IK.

Can anyone please show me photos or videos of PTI protesters, from the videos and photos it looks like a few hundred attacking the jinnah house, cantonment, and majority protest was in Peshawar. The difference was they targeted the army and army showed restraint, this caused panic. The paid social media activitist are making it like millions came out but reality is a few hundred were attacking and a few thousand protesting. Sindh and Balochistan was quiet.

I already mentioned once, the patriotic Pakistanis love their nation and its army. Violent protests, mob violence, attacking army soldiers will not go well in the long run.

You know what? What is the biggest illusion in the mindset of people like you? It's that those who didn't come out on the streets love the government or the military. But this is absolutely not true. Those who were sitting at home have a similar mindset; they hate the government and corrupt military. In fact, they hate them more than those who were on the streets.

Have you ever done business and imported a container yourself? The inspector only checks a few samples from the container to verify the bulk merchandise, instead of checking each bag or box inside the container. Based on that inspection, they determine the quality of the entire maal. So those who were on the streets actually represents a massive large majority of public that supports Khan.

 

[HerbertPervert]

Hi,

If they were " so honest " then they should have taken the next step---. Rather than accept resignations---they should have surced and strengthened their positions and refused to resign---.

The point I have been trying to prove for decades is that Pakistanis are a very clever people---but not intelligent---.

This was a sheer act of stupidity---the same stupidity that Imran Khan committed by dissolving the punjab and frontier cabinet---.

Stupidity time 2 Sq

Agreed. Pakistani's have shown repeatedly that they lack the will to take the initiative.

Whether it's
1. waiting indefinitely for the useless UN to act on Kashmir instead of attacking
2. showing evidence and going to ICJ for Kulbashan espionage instead of executing him and responding in kind
3. not shooting down all IAF aircraft and sinking their submarine in 2019
4. not attacking IoK in 1962 when the Chinese were asking them to join. Pakistan could've taken Kashmir. Instead Ayub offered to help India, lol.
5. Not joining Saudi coalition in which they wouldn't have had to do anything like Egypt but still make billions
6. Limit range of ballistic missiles & number of warheads to show the West that their program is India-specific when no one gives a crap

Imran Khan got nothing out of dissolving the assemblies. This Corp Commander got nothing out of resigning. The only thing they got or they think they got is useless respect for showing principle. But PDM, judiciary, establishment are so "dheet" & corrupt, they don't care if you look good and they look bad.

It's a cold, ruthless, merciless, dangerous world out there. Pakistani's need to adapt and develop the killer instinct necessary to reach the top of the food chain.

 

[MastanKhan]

Agreed. Pakistani's have shown repeatedly that they lack the will to take the initiative.

Whether it's
1. waiting indefinitely for the useless UN to act on Kashmir instead of attacking
2. showing evidence and going to ICJ for Kulbashan espionage instead of executing him and responding in kind
3. not shooting down all IAF aircraft and sinking their submarine in 2019
4. not attacking IoK in 1962 when the Chinese were asking them to join. Pakistan could've taken Kashmir. Instead Ayub offered to help India, lol.
5. Not joining Saudi coalition in which they wouldn't have had to do anything like Egypt but still make billions
6. Limit range of ballistic missiles & number of warheads to show the West that their program is India-specific when no one gives a crap

Imran Khan got nothing out of dissolving the assemblies. This Corp Commander got nothing out of resigning. The only thing they got or they think they got is useless respect for showing principle. But PDM, judiciary, establishment are so "dheet" & corrupt, they don't care if you look good and they look bad.

It's a cold, ruthless, merciless, dangerous world out there. Pakistani's need to adapt and develop the killer instinct necessary to reach the top of the food chain.

Hi,

Thank you very much---.

 

[Finer]

It will take Indian invasion to straighten generals out. Or drive those opportunists along with corrupt leaders to the overseas. I hope it doesn't come to that but it is prophesied so they have been advised.

 

[PakAlp]

You know what? What is the biggest illusion in the mindset of people like you? It's that those who didn't come out on the streets love the government or the military. But this is absolutely not true. Those who were sitting at home have a similar mindset; they hate the government and corrupt military. In fact, they hate them more than those who were on the streets.

Have you ever done business and imported a container yourself? The inspector only checks a few samples from the container to verify the bulk merchandise, instead of checking each bag or box inside the container. Based on that inspection, they determine the quality of the entire maal. So those who were on the streets actually represents a massive large majority of public that supports Khan.

I understand what your saying, I just want all Pakistanis to reject corruption, bribery, campaign to reform the electrol, governmental system of Pakistan so we can become a true modern Islamic welfare state, the dream of Allama Iqbal. Millions of Pakistanis need to come on the roads and pressure the establishment/government to make major reforms. They should accept nothing less.

 

[Super Falcon]

Army needs huge reforms by government

 

[BamsiBey]

it’s alleged that other elements of political parties and other intel agency civilian-clad dressed men actually joined in to create burning and chaos.

That would be the failure of the ISI as to why they're not able to keep tabs on those external elements.

Shouldn't these failures be brought to light?

Corps commander this, corps commander that. Saw the value of a corps commander ? Sidelined like any other.

What if the next Corps commander also refuses? Will he get sidelined as well? And if this pattern continues lets say 2 or 3 times the next few weeks with new commanders coming.

Wouldn't there be an inquiry within the military on the nature of orders being issued?

And How would these decisions reflect on the lower ranks?

 

[Goritoes]

Gen Asim Munir is back in the country or not?

Fajr ki namaz chal rahi hai abhi tak...

 

[Signalian]

Half the forum has been saying, go with the tide, not against it. There should be a Political Science arm to guide GHQ because the last year, it's been a face flat on the pavement. But, as I maintained my position from the beginning, it's often best not to say anything.

Social media is full of lies. This video proves CC was there and he tried to negotiate with the angry protesters, they did not listen and started to destroy everything, they were probably banging on his gates or climbed over them, its not rocket science, also keep in mind noone knew what the protesters were going to do, he was being polite to them and they destroyed his house, his family can be seen too. The same with other area of mob attacks.

These army people had 2 choices, call for back up and kill protesters or show restraint and talk to them, they made the right decision. If it was a military base and they were going for sensitive locations, they certainly would have been shot, come to Mangla base and you will find out.

The protesters were indeed in the wrong, it was 100% PTI youth. The army could have killed them and had the right because they were trespassing, but they showed restraint.

Just because officers showed restraint, the pti followers are making propaganda that they sided with them, some are saying they got scared, playing both sides and dirty politics, today Chief Justice is being praised but the same CJ was called traitor when he removed IK.

Can anyone please show me photos or videos of PTI protesters, from the videos and photos it looks like a few hundred attacking the jinnah house, cantonment, and majority protest was in Peshawar. The difference was they targeted the army and army showed restraint, this caused panic. The paid social media activitist are making it like millions came out but reality is a few hundred were attacking and a few thousand protesting. Sindh and Balochistan was quiet.

I already mentioned once, the patriotic Pakistanis love their nation and its army. Violent protests, mob violence, attacking army soldiers will not go well in the long run.

As i see it, CC is unfit for command and rightly called back into GHQ.

What he should have done is - shown his leadership and command experience in such situation, here is how :

He had at least 6 x QRF vehicles providing security to his house, That means he had at least a regiment on call of security of his residence. First step, he should have had intel of the mob gathering and advancing at his residence. Second step, he should have called up at least 1 x Coy of regiment (150 troops) and 2 x platoons of Military Police at his residence. Third step, should have asked for prepared meals for 100s of people at his residence from the Army Messes in the cantonment.
Now, he should have told his staff to tell the QRF vehicles to remain intact and form up in a single group, not stand individually all around his residence. Then he should have opened the gates of his residence, and would have told the extra called on troops to urge the people to enter the residence through the gate. Then in the lawns and open areas, he should have set up the banquet of food and would have addressed the mob by using mob control techniques. One of the effective technique is to spot the mob leader, there is always a mob leader who shouts the most, ignited the emotion of the mob and screams slogans at the opposite party - so he is not hard to detect.

CC, his staff and the troops should be telling the people to go inside and have food. This is hospitality when someone comes to your residence, even if its your enemy, the hospitality has t be offered. The troops should be told not to fire at the mob as troops are not allowed to fire at own citizens. In fact, the troops are required to intimidate the crowd since its difficult for a lone man to effectively control a mob. Troops are intimidation, not a force to be used, but numbers to be shown, apart from other duties of guiding the mob, so even if armed with personal weapons, there shouldn't be a riot control gear which is threatening to the mob.

Now, the CC and his staff should have spotted the mob leader and talked to him. He should have talked to the mob leader is to stress the importance of considering public opinions. Then determine and evaluate any implicit guidelines or presumptions in the mob. Recognize their biases. This is what I mentioned that ISPR should have done, instead of engaging a media front with PTI, ISPR should have turned towards the public and addressed their concerns.

The offer of food and hospitality is not just the culture, its also a psychological factor for calming down emotions. Even if the mob rejects it, thats alright since its a humanitarian gesture from the CC and as the talk with mob/mob leader get take a nasty turn, the first psychological factor is making them stand at one place and then asking them to sit down. Thats breaking the "charged up" psychological condition of mind. Just like when you are angry, change posture (stand if sitting, sit of standing), change surroundings, that reduces the emotion of anger. Presence of food also shows that you are welcome at some place and its a place to relax. These are psychological factors for the mob. Then mixing of so many uniformed soldiers within the crowd is also another psychological factor, as it doesn't become 1 vs 1 then, since both teams walking with intermixed with each other. Its not mob on one side and soldiers on other side. CC should have asked the soldiers to mix freely with the mob instead of standing like guards or standing like forming a line against them.

Using a loud speaker or not, CC should have taken the leadership role himself and talked to the crowd surrounded with his staff with soldiers mixed in the crowd. He should have let them talk, but answered their queries, re-iterating that they are guests at his house and as guests they are offered food and drinks. He should have then urged them to go back to their homes after the stay as somethings are out of his hands but since he has listened to their concerns, he will inform their concerns to whatever authority they want to approach and be heard to. Next he should have asked the mob leader/leaders to visit him in office the next day to get feedback for their concerns.

Like I said, I have seen military officers taking leadership role in front of charged tribes which become mobs in Baluchistan, and coming alone even to talk to them without backing of troops. There are ways and means to show leadership in different manners and ways.

The above solution may not be the best, there could be multiple more, however the following points is where the CC and if I was COAS, I would see him unfit for command on following:

1. He had no intel, no strategy, no plan - so no leadership.

2. Possible political sympathy with PTI, which is fine, but that doesn't mean to allow them to come to vandalize property.

3. An officer who cannot protect Government property authorized to him and is under his responsibility, is not fit for command.

4. CC had resources and troops at his disposal to effectively counter, thwart and manage the situation, yet failed to do so.

5. If CC cannot manage security of his own residence, he cannot manage defense of country.

In any case, there are are 9 Corps Command and some 30 officers at/above ranks of Lt General, considering both ratios, this one makes a dent for media, but over all not that much.

 

[The Accountant]

As i see it, CC is unfit for command and rightly called back into GHQ.

What he should have done is - shown his leadership and command experience in such situation, here is how :

He had at least 6 x QRF vehicles providing security to his house, That means he had at least a regiment on call of security of his residence. First step, he should have had intel of the mob gathering and advancing at his residence. Second step, he should have called up at least 1 x Coy of regiment (150 troops) and 2 x platoons of Military Police at his residence. Third step, should have asked for prepared meals for 100s of people at his residence from the Army Messes in the cantonment.
Now, he should have told his staff to tell the QRF vehicles to remain intact and form up in a single group, not stand individually all around his residence. Then he should have opened the gates of his residence, and would have told the extra called on troops to urge the people to enter the residence through the gate. Then in the lawns and open areas, he should have set up the banquet of food and would have addressed the mob by using mob control techniques. One of the effective technique is to spot the mob leader, there is always a mob leader who shouts the most, ignited the emotion of the mob and screams slogans at the opposite party - so he is not hard to detect.

CC, his staff and the troops should be telling the people to go inside and have food. This is hospitality when someone comes to your residence, even if its your enemy, the hospitality has t be offered. The troops should be told not to fire at the mob as troops are not allowed to fire at own citizens. In fact, the troops are required to intimidate the crowd since its difficult for a lone man to effectively control a mob. Troops are intimidation, not a force to be used, but numbers to be shown, apart from other duties of guiding the mob, so even if armed with personal weapons, there shouldn't be a riot control gear which is threatening to the mob.

Now, the CC and his staff should have spotted the mob leader and talked to him. He should have talked to the mob leader is to stress the importance of considering public opinions. Then determine and evaluate any implicit guidelines or presumptions in the mob. Recognize their biases. This is what I mentioned that ISPR should have done, instead of engaging a media front with PTI, ISPR should have turned towards the public and addressed their concerns.

The offer of food and hospitality is not just the culture, its also a psychological factor for calming down emotions. Even if the mob rejects it, thats alright since its a humanitarian gesture from the CC and as the talk with mob/mob leader get take a nasty turn, the first psychological factor is making them stand at one place and then asking them to sit down. Thats breaking the "charged up" psychological condition of mind. Just like when you are angry, change posture (stand if sitting, sit of standing), change surroundings, that reduces the emotion of anger. Presence of food also shows that you are welcome at some place and its a place to relax. These are psychological factors for the mob. Then mixing of so many uniformed soldiers within the crowd is also another psychological factor, as it doesn't become 1 vs 1 then, since both teams walking with intermixed with each other. Its not mob on one side and soldiers on other side. CC should have asked the soldiers to mix freely with the mob instead of standing like guards or standing like forming a line against them.

Using a loud speaker or not, CC should have taken the leadership role himself and talked to the crowd surrounded with his staff with soldiers mixed in the crowd. He should have let them talk, but answered their queries, re-iterating that they are guests at his house and as guests they are offered food and drinks. He should have then urged them to go back to their homes after the stay as somethings are out of his hands but since he has listened to their concerns, he will inform their concerns to whatever authority they want to approach and be heard to. Next he should have asked the mob leader/leaders to visit him in office the next day to get feedback for their concerns.

Like I said, I have seen military officers taking leadership role in front of charged tribes which become mobs in Baluchistan, and coming alone even to talk to them without backing of troops. There are ways and means to show leadership in different manners and ways.

The above solution may not be the best, there could be multiple more, however the following points is where the CC and if I was COAS, I would see him unfit for command on following:

1. He had no intel, no strategy, no plan - so no leadership.

2. Possible political sympathy with PTI, which is fine, but that doesn't mean to allow them to come to vandalize property.

3. An officer who cannot protect Government property authorized to him and is under his responsibility, is not fit for command.

4. CC had resources and troops at his disposal to effectively counter, thwart and manage the situation, yet failed to do so.

5. If CC cannot manage security of his own residence, he cannot manage defense of country.

In any case, there are are 9 Corps Command and some 30 officers at/above ranks of Lt General, considering both ratios, this one makes a dent for media, but over all not that much.

THe steps u r talking about is responsibility of police and government and not army ...

What core commander house is doing in the middle of the city and what army has to do with cities? They should move to barracks, borders and contonment areas away from cities ...

Its time that armed froces should stop mendling with affairs of public ...

Its rangers and ssgc who started this by arresting imran khan a dumb move but message is clear now if anything happen to imran khan, it will not be a protest only this time houses will be burned with people inside ... tit for tat ... its pure ignoramce of militaty leadership that forced us to hate them.

Pdf is perfect example. 90% of us were the ideological defender of the armed forces ... u can check our past posts fighting pdm and indians to protect armed forces against propaganda but thanks to bajwa and asim they showed how wrong we were and now 90% of us now hate army leadership and we are representative of feelings of Pakistani ...

There could be pro PTI people, may be pro PDM people but hating army leadership is common thanks to bajea and asim ...

We still love our armed forces but not the generals ... general has come to senses before this hate destroy everything

 

[SaadH]

Hi,

Same thing did not happen under Mushy---.

He kicked out idiots who wanted to fight the USA---.

By breaking the chain of command or by expressing their opinions? If former then how come they weren't court martialed, if latter then is there no room for difference in opinion/dissent in the colonial outfit.

In reality the reports coming out at the time and keeping inline with typical American idiocacy, they demanded anyone with a beard or religious orientation should be purged and Mushy the ever eager Whisky drinking kemalist loyal colonial dog was all too happy to oblige.

Plus not fighting did wonders for Pakistan, over 100K killed and still dying to this day with insurgeny raging with full intensity and economic outlook worst than Sub-Saharan Africa. Perhaps fighting Americans might have improved the situation, just ask the Afghans next door, despite all the obvious destruction and disadvantages their GDP per capita is half of Pakistan's, whereas it ought to be on order of magnitude much smaller, 1/10 th.

 

[Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai]

Hi,,

This fool should have stayed---not resigned and should not have accepted termination---.

You cannot do any good when you are not in power---.


Hi,

Another conscientious fool---gave away power---should have refused termination.

When all good officers leave leave---then what is left---?

@RescueRanger , sir, your take on this?

On one hand, it's mutiny, with the plus side that it would encourage other moderates to speak up to the current dispensation. On the other hand, chain of command is preserved but if they successfully weed out the moderate elements, and all that remains are the hawks, that's not good for army either.

Adil raja (i know he is not exactly reliable) said a crackdown of moderates inside the army and even families going on. Meaning round 2 will be bloodier with the lines clearly drawn.

I am talking about this guy

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656683249924489221

Yes, I know. He deserves praise and support, but so does the the CC Lahore. I am saying their actions were inspired by human decency, not ethnicity.

And nah I am not saying anyone has trademark over gheerah. But it used to be contentious on here whenever I said people of Waziristan and Balochistan are ghairatmand

I think you may have said it in a manner that , at the same time, implied otherwise of the non-balochs and the non-wazirs of Pakistan.
That's why there's is disagreement. Hence, my contention that ghairat isn't a trademark of any one ethnicity.

Yo were you @RisboLensky on Twitter?

No. I love his username and had to steal it before someone else did . I doubt he'll be coming on PDF so, i say it's fair game.

 

[RescueRanger]

@RescueRanger , sir, your take on this?

On one hand, it's mutiny, with the plus side that it would encourage other moderates to speak up to the current dispensation. On the other hand, chain of command is preserved but if they successfully weed out the moderate elements, and all that remains are the hawks, that's not good for army either.

Adil raja (i know he is not exactly reliable) said a crackdown of moderates inside the army and even families going on


Yes, I know. He deserves praise and support, but so does the the CC Lahore. I am saying their actions were inspired by human decency, not ethnicity.


I think you may have said it in a manner that , at the same time, implied otherwise of the non-balochs and the non-wazirs of Pakistan.
That's why there's is disagreement. Hence, my contention that ghairat isn't a trademark of any one ethnicity.


No. I love his username and had to steal it before someone else did . I doubt he'll be coming on PDF so, it says it's fair game.

Lets see what they do, it is very difficult to predict what the rabid fool will do. Remember a cornered animal is most dangerous, I think there should be a possibility of creating an "out" whereby an exit can be facilitated. Otherwise things are going to get extremely messy, we are not out of the woods yet.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Lets see what they do, it is very difficult to predict what the rabid fool will do. Remember a cornered animal is most dangerous, I think there should be a possibility of creating an "out" whereby an exit can be facilitated. Otherwise things are going to get extremely messy, we are not out of the woods yet.

The animal won't exit without a fight. And since word is that it has become personal. The end won't be good for atleast one party.