Lieutenant General Salman Fayyaz Ghani Sacked/Resigned

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Hero !!!

Lanat on Fauji Medal , if you love your Country Citizen

All those fancy medals are sold anyways on Ebay for $10 bucks no need to kill Human Life for stupid acolade


Logic of Guy at top , kill people to save some brick or morter (cement)

 

[Zibago]

”. A hold over its own domain which got challenged recently on 9th may and a hold over its supremacy over other government departments.

That was the first step which led to military cracking down for the first time on minors and women and that step alone will have short and long term consequences particularly in a country so close to default

And in order for the latter to go, IK is not walking the correct path. IK is constantly challenging the government and army from a position of weakness based on public strength but this is debatable and I will tell you why.

Time will tell whether he is challenging them from a position of weakness or strength in such turbulent times
What he managed to do successfully is permanently taint the image of army in the Urban middle class Punjabi
That loss to the military will have consequences beyond 5-10 years

1. At this point, IK is a lesser threat to both Govt and military. If he comes in power, they will perceive him as a bigger threat. Those circumstances will then dictate the strategy of other political parties and military how to deal with IK.

He will come to power with ease or the pdm government will be forced to suffer the full aftershock of a very painful default

At this rate they want to manage IK and go in elections
What they are underestimating is the anger of the young Punjabi
Even with such a hostile setup the best they can do even with violence is decrease his majority and that is exactly why some morons are thinking of banning PTI (which only the SC can do)

2. Protests erupted in major cities, not smaller cities or towns. This shows where the support lies for IK. But where does the majority of population reside in Pakistan. So just like 93k is a bloated figure for 71 era pows, the 220 million backing IK is also a bloated figure. This is a concern since SriLankan public’s literacy level is above Pakistan’s which is why major cities of Pakistan saw protests, which can be counted on fingers while when compared with all cities of Pakistan, the ratio is still small.

Protests erupted in many cities but got violent in the big cities as they had significant army installations
A big miscalculation of the army is that IK is just an Urban phenomenon
He is not and that was proved by last year byelection in Punjab
Most supporters didnt even protests but they too have nothing but hatred for the army (in Punjab)
People burn wapda offices, police stations and what not during protests if the army thinks suddenly because of some protestors getting violent the people will change their political opinions they are in for a shock

Now the original point was IK as PM and military working together with him. I was hoping for some realists insight. There is a big divide between both now.

For the army and IK to work together there first has to be a purge within the army of officers who abused their status against the people and after that the rules of engagement with civilians have to be permanently altered
Their financial empire has to be surrendered to the relevant ministries before eventual privatization

 

[Jf Thunder]

Firstly, your biased and judgemental mind didn’t let you understand what I was saying.

Secondly, let me clear your doubt. Did you see two dictatorships after 1971? Roughly 20 years on total. Yeah there’s your answer.

You must have been born under one of the dictatorships, either Zia or Musharraf.

Army can have more dictatorships and your kids might be born during them. Can you stop that ? No you can’t. Now you get my gist hopefully.

the situation with the Army in 1971 was at the lowest ebb
heck, military people didnt even show their faces.
thats how Bhutto was able so summary retire so many Military personnel, and then forcefully sack the COAS, heck, he even changed the name "C in C" to "COAS" without any peep from the Army.

But, by the end of his rule, the population was sick and tired of his dictatorial policies, therefore, they welcomed the Army. If the Army had tried Martial Law, when the population was with Bhutto, well the results would have been different.

The situation now is quite different, the majority of the literate population either hates them, or simply does not like them. The rest of the population is just trying to make ends meet. Obviously, the entire population wasn't out there burning the buildings, but even those people sitting at home, did not necessarily shed a tear for the burnings.
Keeping in view the above, I am pretty sure Gen Asim Munir is aware of these circumstances, that is what his speeches show at least, so I am pretty sure, he will not try any intervention tactics.
In short, the Army may be strong, but most of that strength is by their false sense of bravado and supposed professionalism, but without Public support, they will not try anything funny. And before you say, that public support doesn't matter, it does actually, this is not Sudan, where the Army will start bombing the population with jets.
Public perception matters, at least to our Army, that is why an entire ISPR arm is set up.

Hopefully sense prevails on both sides, since ultimately it is Pakistan which is suffering, and without the country, there can be no Army, and no Politicians.

My only greatest apprehension is that, if I say openly, that I fear that the Army may try deceptive tactics, to again take power into their own hands.

They should be all means protect their own prestige, but for God's sake, let the other departments do their own jobs, stop interfering and get out of this "saviors' complex".

 

[Zibago]

@Signalian mujhay positive rating kion di ? Mujhay apkey idarey aur uski soch sey nafrat hy
I tried my best to portray my hatred in a civil manner to the best of my abilities

 

[AA_]

How can Pakistan win a war with all yes men in key positions. During WW2, Gen Heinz Guderian and Gen Rommels routinely disregard commands to keep pushing on and end results were massive victories in northern France in 1940 and North Africa 1941-1942. Gen Paulus was a yes man and he cost the German army 300k men in Stalingrad refusing to break out during Gen Manstein efforts to relieve them in Nov-Dec 1942. It’s abundantly clear to even the most die hard fans that this army will lose badly in any future war against India given its efforts in politics versus trying to build up its capabilities to win wars.

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian mujhay positive rating kion di ? Mujhay apkey idarey aur uski soch sey nafrat hy
I tried my best to portray my hatred in a civil manner to the best of my abilities

You posted in a certain manner that I wanted you to. I don’t have time to reply yet but I will when I get time. I like hearing different point of views. I have the capacity and the forbearance to read. I used to debate with others before, got their povs and moved ahead then. I keep pinging different minds, just the way I roll on PDF.

What you love or hate, is not my problem neither will it make it mine. What you think, how you think, why you think - is what might spark my interest.

As for “my idara “, this is Pakistan defence forum, which are Pakistan’s armed forces. Till I’m on this forum, I will mention positivity regarding the military and sister branches, while others un-earth the dirt. They talk what they want, I talk what I want.

Further to it, on a personal side note, I wanted a situation where I felt so strong that I stand opposite to 100 men and I say my mind with no fear. Where I’m hated and loathed yet instead of feeling weak and stressed out, I feel more stronger snd I stand my ground.

Even though I felt that at times, it wasn’t comforting coz I’m sitting behind a screen. It’s still easy to do all this online, but the real life is out there, it’s not online. Online Heroics don’t mean anything.

I hope that since past one year and for the years to come, thanks to the rift between army and other entities, I capitalise on this opportunity to become more confident and stronger internally so that someday when faced by outnumbered odds, I stand my ground in real life for whatever I’m fighting for, be it my family, my career, my friends etc.

 

[blain2]

You posted in a certain manner that I wanted you to. I don’t have time to reply yet but I will when I get time. I like hearing different point of views. I have the capacity and the forbearance to read. I used to debate with others before, got their povs and moved ahead then. I keep pinging different minds, just the way I roll on PDF.

What you love or hate, is not my problem neither will it make it mine. What you think, how you think, why you think - is what might spark my interest.

As for “my idara “, this is Pakistan defence forum, which are Pakistan’s armed forces. Till I’m on this forum, I will mention positivity regarding the military and sister branches, while others un-earth the dirt. They talk what they want, I talk what I want.

Further to it, on a personal side note, I wanted a situation where I felt so strong that I stand opposite to 100 men and I say my mind with no fear. Where I’m hated and loathed yet instead of feeling weak and stressed out, I feel more stronger snd I stand my ground.

Even though I felt that at times, it wasn’t comforting coz I’m sitting behind a screen. It’s still easy to do all this online, but the real life is out there, it’s not online. Online Heroics don’t mean anything.

I hope that since past one year and for the years to come, thanks to the rift between army and other entities, I capitalise on this opportunity to become more confident and stronger internally so that someday when faced by outnumbered odds, I stand my ground in real life for whatever I’m fighting for, be it my family, my career, my friends etc.

You are fully entitled to sharing your views here. You are not making policy inside GHQ or MoI. Members on the other side of the political divide should be mindful of this.

Second, nothing is all bad or all good, specially large organizations.

People should realize that one change at the top with a person that aligns with their political views can change this perception over night. So these perceptions about an institution cannot be static, forever, set in stone.

I always say, share ideas and PoV and attack ideas and PoVs but leave out personal attacks.

 

[Zibago]

What you love or hate, is not my problem neither will it make it mine. What you think, how you think, why you think - is what might spark my interest.

Sadly the institution has made it its problem
People who even disagree publicly on social media are picked up and made an example and all indications are its only going to get worse
The contract has been broken the longterm consequences are severe
Another 2011 like situation will reveal a lot of things I have said

As for “my idara “, this is Pakistan defence forum, which are Pakistan’s armed forces. Till I’m on this forum, I will mention positivity regarding the military and sister branches, while others un-earth the dirt. They talk what they want, I talk what I want.

Ofcourse you can do that while you glorify that institution I will unearth the horrible human rights abuses under it such as abduction of family members by using measures similar to FCR or abducting people after they get bail but the difference between you and me is that I have to watch my back after every sentence I type even if I go abroad (which is my end goal )
I was born in a poor family that didnt break me and I climbed the social ladder to earn a reputable place in society but when women and children get picked up infront of me (some just pedestrians outside residential areas) I dont think I would call such a country as a good place to have your future in

Further to it, on a personal side note, I wanted a situation where I felt so strong that I stand opposite to 100 men and I say my mind with no fear. Where I’m hated and loathed yet instead of feeling weak and stressed out, I feel more stronger snd I stand my ground.

Those two things are not connected to be honest the worst that can happen to you is people online abusing you (which sucks but if you ignore it nothing bad happens to you) while people like me are at risk of being picked up and thrown for life in prison over words

People should realize that one change at the top with a person that aligns with their political views can change this perception over night. So these perceptions about an institution cannot be static, forever, set in stone.

You are right the events of past few days have forced me to reanalyze my opinions on groups in FATA and Balochistan particularly fata where the unelected Maliks had so much control and collective punishment was the norm

 

[Gorgin Khan]

Hero !!!

Lanat on Fauji Medal , if you love your Country Citizen

All those fancy medals are sold anyways on Ebay for $10 bucks no need to kill Human Life for stupid acolade


Logic of Guy at top , kill people to save some brick or morter (cement)

You are an imposter i told you long ago......a traitor sitting abroad and spitting venom..... Lanat on you and your existence .... Idiot.....

 

[That Guy]

You are an imposter i told you long ago......a traitor sitting abroad and spitting venom..... Lanat on you and your existence .... Idiot.....

@blain2

Help bro.

 

[S.Y.A]

This is a good question.

I honestly have not been able to get clarity on this from anyone.

My own take (this has been my consistent thinking) is that it is the external alignment (read the US/West) that is driving Army's stubborn stance on anything-but-IK dispensation (we are beyond the argument that it is not their job to play king-makers). However, over time, I think this external factor + self-preservation for people in the CoAS' inner circle, including DG-I, DG-C etc. is leading to this doubling-down of the stance against PTI/IK. This is where the real danger is. If these people feel their backs are against the wall (one possibility is that they could be sent to the gallows since people have actually died), they may resort to all sorts of #2 harbay.

I feel that while people may simply park this army push-back to greed for "DHA plots, incentives, money" and preserving their way of life etc., I think the reasons are more fundamental as in the survival of the inner circle around Gen Munir and Gen Bajwa previously.

If IK can deftly get the army to realize that the goodwill lost to the people of Pakistan is not worth taking this course and that he will not be vindictive, the army can come around because we have to remember that at one point, PML-N was enemy #1 in the army's crosshairs yet the burnt bridge was reconstructed.

they are simply the firawns of our time. Musa AS kept on preaching, showed miracles and even torments were sent down, but he refused to listen. this is what is happening with the leadership of this army. military men are not known for their genius anyways, they are narrowminded zombies, and this is what is happening here as well.