Leaked report: Pakistan had 'major failures' during OBL incident

[Sedqal]

You aren't living in an ideal world...just like the drone issue.

To live in an ideal world we should accept that USA can send drone any time and kill Pakistani civilians while PA remains busy in bakeries and golf clubs. That is much too steep a price for realism. I'll dream of a honorable army, sons of soil who would sacrifice all for the sanctity of motherland, don't wake me up

 

[Developereo]

The best way to decimate our military capability need not be by means of a direct confrontation. Starving the economy will do the job much easier. Oh wait, isn't that already happening? IF one accepts the premise you pose, that is, Sir.

More than one way to skin the cat.

What is clear though, is that Pakistan being a thorn in India's side and working with China, does not sit well with America's plans for the region.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

.............

See below.



The US public is war weary.

OBL was unfinished business and the memory of 9/11 is still strong. Any US administration practically had carte blanche to get him anywhere.

It would be hard to come up with a strong enough justification to get into a conflict with a nuclear armed state.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people Sir. They will swallow a justification for war told to them by their President hook, line and sinker and rally behind their troops any time, every time. War weary or not, Pakistan is not exactly popular these days, and most would be happy to see our collective butt kicked.

Having said that, like I said before, who needs a direct confrontation to destroy us? Please look around and tell me that everything that you see happening in Pakistan is not our destruction being played out slowly and inevitably.

 

[Awesome]

The analogy doesn't sit; we are talking specifically about hunting OBL.

Yaar, when the attack happened, our generals were like "Attack? Kithay? Kithay?" Nobody told them they are coming to attack OBL.

So the analogy does fit. The could have been coming to attack you, and our generals would have bowed down to them.

Defence is absolute. I'll give you another analogy...

Do you have a list of people that you would let them kill you? No. Even if faced head to head in a match with the Incredible Hulk you would still defend yourself. Our generals didn't. They allowed someone to come in and kill people on Pakistani soil - mind you 4 Pakistanis, not just OBL.

The difference is that their own neck was not on the line, as long as Americans come to kill other Pakistanis the GHQ Pakistanis are okay with that.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

More than one way to skin the cat.

What is clear though, is that Pakistan being a thorn in India's side and working with China, does not sit well with America's plans for the region.

No Sir, I do not agree with that. We are in trouble with USA because of what we have done covertly while taking their money. It is as simple as that. India and China are part of a different game, and we are only a minor side act in that global game.

 

[Sedqal]

More than one way to skin the cat.

What is clear though, is that Pakistan being a thorn in India's side and working with China, does not sit well with America's plans for the region.

Is that the reason why PA became the bounty hunter for America, to show how useful they can be for the Americans?

 

[Awesome]

That the Pakistan Armed Forces can be forgiven for inculcating among Pakistanis? After all, which foreign adversary have they ever achieved victory over, they can't or rather are unwilling to even prevail over insurgents and sectarian terrorists, both of which were their own creations.

But the larger point you make about defeat, perhaps more Pakistanis should consider it.

Darpok kaum hai humari, usne darpok generals hi paida karne hain. America has defeated the generals - they have lost the will to fight. They can only kidnap the people who talk too much and torture. Fighting an outside enemy attacking the nation? Unheard of.

You aren't living in an ideal world...just like the drone issue.

Ideal world is for everyone else, its only we who need to rationalize on these lines.

 

[Developereo]

Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people Sir. They will swallow a justification for war told to them by their President hook, line and sinker and rally behind their troops any time, every time. War weary or not, Pakistan is not exactly popular these days, and most would be happy to see our collective butt kicked.

Remember I mentioned two audiences: domestic and international.

Also, the US public is not so stupid. The economy is less-than-stellar and priorities are being weighed.
9/11 was a very unusual event, thankfully.

Having said that, like I said before, who needs a direct confrontation to destroy us? Please look around and tell me that everything that you see happening in Pakistan is not our destruction being played out slowly and inevitably.

There is a concerted effort to create a wedge between the security establishment and the Pakistani public, and to sap the former's morale. If that doesn't destroy an organization, I don't know what will.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Is that the reason why PA became the bounty hunter for America, to show how useful they can be for the Americans?

No Sir. There was good money to be made. The transactional nature is clear and does not give us any lasting usefulness.

 

[Developereo]

No Sir, I do not agree with that. We are in trouble with USA because of what we have done covertly while taking their money. It is as simple as that. India and China are part of a different game, and we are only a minor side act in that global game.

You've got the cart before the horse.

Pakistan played its game in Afghanistan to safeguard its national interests. The US plan, from the beginning, was to install India as the regional hegemon, with a dutiful puppet in Kabul.

India failed, the US failed, and Pakistan prevailed.

At what cost? We will find out in due time.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

........


There is a concerted effort to create a wedge between the security establishment and the Pakistani public, and to sap the former's morale. If that doesn't destroy an organization, I don't know what will.

Just a minute Sir. You are assuming that the wedge is being driven by external forces only. That is only partly correct. The grievances and complaints on part of the people of Pakistan are growing against their government and their military for many genuine reasons too, and outside forces are only taking advantage of the situation wherever they can. Blaming outside forces while ignoring the genuine and growing domestic dissent is what poses the real danger.

You've got the cart before the horse.

Pakistan played its game in Afghanistan to safeguard its national interests. The US plan, from the beginning, was to install India as the regional hegemon, with a dutiful puppet in Kabul.

India failed, the US failed, and Pakistan prevailed.

At what cost? We will find out in due time.

It is too early to conclude who has prevailed Sir.

 

[karan.1970]

You've got the cart before the horse.

Pakistan played its game in Afghanistan to safeguard its national interests. The US plan, from the beginning, was to install India as the regional hegemon, with a dutiful puppet in Kabul.

India failed, the US failed, and Pakistan prevailed.

At what cost? We will find out in due time.

this is like digging the hole around the place where you hit your golf ball and claiming a successful putt..

 

[Developereo]

Even if faced head to head in a match with the Incredible Hulk you would still defend yourself.

What I saying is that the global media portrayal wouldn't be about Pakistan defending its sovereignty, but Pakistan defending OBL.

Whether the generals were complicit, cowardly or incompetent is unknown, depending on whom you believe.

 

[Sedqal]

Yaar, when the attack happened, our generals were like "Attack? Kithay? Kithay?" Nobody told them they are coming to attack OBL.

So the analogy does fit. The could have been coming to attack you, and our generals would have bowed down to them.

Defence is absolute. I'll give you another analogy...

Do you have a list of people that you would let them kill you? No. Even if faced head to head in a match with the Incredible Hulk you would still defend yourself. Our generals didn't. They allowed someone to come in and kill people on Pakistani soil - mind you 4 Pakistanis, not just OBL.

The difference is that their own neck was not on the line, as long as Americans come to kill other Pakistanis the GHQ Pakistanis are okay with that.

Sadly same mentality is the reason why Lashkars after Lashkars are created - Which country would allow that after having a fully developed army.

 

[Developereo]

Just a minute Sir. You are assuming that the wedge is being driven by external forces only. That is only partly correct. The grievances and complaints on part of the people of Pakistan are growing against their government and their military for many genuine reasons too, and outside forces are only taking advantage of the situation wherever they can. Blaming outside forces while ignoring the genuine and growing domestic dissent is what poses the real danger.

Of course, all agencies have committed sins. For Pakistanis, it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil.

It is too early to conclude who has prevailed Sir.

At the very least, an Indian puppet regime in Kabul seems unlikely to prevail or be effective.

this is like digging the hole around the place where you hit your golf ball and claiming a successful putt..

It's not about ideal solutions, but making the best of a very, very bad set of alternatives.