KSA & UAE - Submarine Options

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

@cabatli_53 @T-123456 @Sinan @Oublious @HAKIKAT

@Combat-Master @S.U.R.B.

How do you think Turkey could fit into this picture?

How about joining MILDEN (National Submarine) project, and all others???

 

[Khafee]

How about joining MILDEN (National Submarine) project, and all others???

Well, tell us more?

 

[Basel]

that wont work, if the uae is actively looking for subs, they would go french, i wont be surprised to find india offering the scorpene with drdo aip. yes indeed Germany is a risky, but there Sweden with the a26 is also an option. but most likely they would go to dcns and get the scorpene sub, and if they were nice they would let pakistani naval officers train them and to learn the as much as they can about the scorpene as india has the same sub too.
View attachment 372239
even were getting in the game too
http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/bmt-design-portfolio/bmt-vidar-submarines/

Why Scorpion?? Why not some thing like Merlin or SMX Ocean, they can ask smaller sub with SMX Ocean tech too. @Khafee

 

[theman111]

the best option its develop alone

 

[MastanKhan]

@Khafee

At this times---any weapons procurement by KSA or GCC must have a different approach from the past---.

Let us assume---to form a complete battle force---they need subs and ships and air force and ground force---.

But for any of these forces to work properly---they will have to learn to build the machine as well.

And that is the most important part of all---until and unless these nations do not start to be a part of building and manufacturing of these machines---their level of performance in battle will never go above satisfactory---means that they will never excel OVERALL.

Because there is no vested interest in it---there is no sweat and blood involved in it---there is no LOVE involved in it---there is no romance build up---there is no true claim of ownership involved here but only the transfer of funds and exchange of equipment from the manufacturer to the end user---if it works---it works---if it does not blame it on the manufacturer.

Submarines are a totally different animals---to tame the beast---you will have to learn about the innards of the beast---and to do that---you will have to build it as well.

@Khafee --- I like your thinking---KSA and GCC need subs---.

 

[Khafee]

@Khafee

At this times---any weapons procurement by KSA or GCC must have a different approach from the past---.

Let us assume---to form a complete battle force---they need subs and ships and air force and ground force---.

But for any of these forces to work properly---they will have to learn to build the machine as well.

And that is the most important part of all---until and unless these nations do not start to be a part of building and manufacturing of these machines---their level of performance in battle will never go above satisfactory---means that they will never excel OVERALL.

Because there is no vested interest in it---there is no sweat and blood involved in it---there is no LOVE involved in it---there is no romance build up---there is no true claim of ownership involved here but only the transfer of funds and exchange of equipment from the manufacturer to the end user---if it works---it works---if it does not blame it on the manufacturer.

Submarines are a totally different animals---to tame the beast---you will have to learn about the innards of the beast---and to do that---you will have to build it as well.

@Khafee --- I like your thinking---KSA and GCC need subs---.

I learned this from you, before your superiors give you a headache, give them one

Seriously speaking, I'm putting a few points together. Lets see how it goes.

 

[T-123456]

Well, tell us more?

''The Type 214 construction project is the last project where Turkish Navy will construct a submarine to a foreign design and subsystems. It is not a secret that the next submarines constructed by Turkish Navy will be local design with most of the critical components ans sub systems produced with local input. It is not surprising to see the large Turkish industrial participation in the Type 214 project as this project is regarded as preparation phase for the Milli Denizaltı (Milden). Milli Denizaltı means National Submarine in Turkish''

This project is for the future,beyond 2025.

 

[The Eagle]

I learned this from you, before your superiors give you a headache, give them one

Seriously speaking, I'm putting a few points together. Lets see how it goes.

I like this...... as said..... rather than teaching to eat the fish, teach them how to catch the fish and......

 

[Khafee]

I like this...... as said..... rather than teaching to eat the fish, teach them how to catch the fish and......

The cost of constructing a sub is going to be more in the GCC, then in China or Europe. And that cost has to be justified - the most difficult part.

 

[The Eagle]

The cost of constructing a sub is going to be more in the GCC, then in China or Europe. And that cost has to be justified - the most difficult part.

It has to be started from a point Sir, and when there is a will, there are way to do so. As I said earlier in my post, Chinese option is like a complete package so start from the ground and initially by learning through building process in China, in the meantime go for the facility in own country (Ship/Sub building), then get into JV and then move on. A long way but not impossible. Just saying.

 

[Khafee]

It has to be started from a point Sir, and when there is a will, there are way to do so. As I said earlier in my post, Chinese option is like a complete package so start from the ground and initially by learning through building process in China, in the meantime go for the facility in own country (Ship/Sub building), then get into JV and then move on. A long way but not impossible. Just saying.

InShaAllah, I will try my best, lets see what happens.

 

[MastanKhan]

The cost of constructing a sub is going to be more in the GCC, then in China or Europe. And that cost has to be justified - the most difficult part.

Hi,

The progression needs to STAIRSTEP---just remember---you cannot re-invent the wheel.

You don't need to build it in GCC---just follow the example pf pakistan and china on the JF17---or the coming buildup at karachi shipyard for the chinese subs---.

Find ways to stick your foot in--have ranking engineering officers to start at the basic level along with other techs---.

I will guarantee you that in 5 years time period---your forces would be at a different pleatau---and 10 years time period if you kept on with what you started with---other nations would be shocked at your achievements.

I learned this from you, before your superiors give you a headache, give them one

Seriously speaking, I'm putting a few points together. Lets see how it goes.

Hi,

I am grateful for giving me this position.

 

[c-dome1]

i think french and german best option

 

[ziaulislam]

if my enemy have subs and carry some missiles with out nuckler cap it's usless and realy waste of money and lives
let we say the enemy have sub's with out nuckler cap what can he do to you
and can his sub's pass this

easily once it fire a few torpedo up it a** form near distance. do you wonder why the biggest potential rival of arab countries have so many subs in their service to fight whom, someone who doesnt has a any naval capability whats so ever

regardless saudi arab has the fifth biggest defense expenditure but has pathetic navy

 

[The SC]

In wartime a submarine can carry out a number of missions including:

• Denial of sea areas to an enemy
  
• Surveillance and information gathering
• Landing of special operations forces
• Attack of land targets.
• Protection of task forces and merchant shipping

We should first see which roles would the RSNF requires in order to maintain a submarine force.

First we establish the requirement, then we move on to the platform required to fulfill these tasks.
They only have the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea to operate in.

Secondly who would want to attack the Saudi's, because it would not be possible from land as they are already surrounded by GCC states.

From the sea, only a blue water navy would be able to attack them, which we all know are pretty capable, and Saudi's stand no chance against them.

Let us first establish,
Why do the Saudi's need a submarine force?

View attachment 372363

The requirements' studies must have been done a while ago and the choice went for the type-209 German submarines, now they are looking for their equivalents.. there is the option of type-212 from Italy but it is not known if the Germans have a say in that, it is much more sophisticated than the type-209 and one of the hardest to detect..

@Khafee

At this times---any weapons procurement by KSA or GCC must have a different approach from the past---.

Let us assume---to form a complete battle force---they need subs and ships and air force and ground force---.

But for any of these forces to work properly---they will have to learn to build the machine as well.

And that is the most important part of all---until and unless these nations do not start to be a part of building and manufacturing of these machines---their level of performance in battle will never go above satisfactory---means that they will never excel OVERALL.

Because there is no vested interest in it---there is no sweat and blood involved in it---there is no LOVE involved in it---there is no romance build up---there is no true claim of ownership involved here but only the transfer of funds and exchange of equipment from the manufacturer to the end user---if it works---it works---if it does not blame it on the manufacturer.

Submarines are a totally different animals---to tame the beast---you will have to learn about the innards of the beast---and to do that---you will have to build it as well.

@Khafee --- I like your thinking---KSA and GCC need subs---.

There is this new vision 2030 which insists on ToT in any new military procurements, so your thoughts go in accord with this requirement, and KSA in particular with other GGG members following suite, is already working hard on it..