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Kashmir, the “Final” solution!

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Scenario five: A smaller independent Kashmir
An independent Kashmir could be created from the Kashmir Valley - currently under Indian administration - and the narrow strip of land which Pakistan calls Azad Jammu and Kashmir. This would leave the strategically important regions of the Northern Areas and Ladakh, bordering China, under the control of Pakistan and India respectively. However both India and Pakistan would be unlikely to enter into discussions which would have this scenario as a possible outcome.

If, as the result of a regional plebiscite, which offered the option of independence, the majority of the inhabitants of the Kashmir Valley chose independence and the majority of the inhabitants of Pakistani-administered Jammu and Kashmir, (excluding the Northern Areas) also chose independence, a smaller, independent Kashmir could be created by administratively joining these two areas together.

This would leave the predominantly Muslim Northern Areas as part of Pakistan and Buddhist Ladakh and majority Hindu Jammu as part of India, with the possibility that some Muslim districts of Jammu might also opt to join the independent state.

Although Pakistan has demanded a change in the status of the Kashmir Valley, it depends on water from the Mangla Reservoir in Pakistani-administered Jammu and Kashmir and would be unlikely to permit loss of control of the region.

India is still committed to retaining the Kashmir Valley as part of the Indian Union and has refused to consider holding a plebiscite in any part of the state.

Regardless of the aspirations of the inhabitants, to date neither country has contemplated a situation where the end result would adversely affect their own interests.


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Scenario six: Independent Kashmir Valley
An independent Kashmir Valley has been considered by some as the best solution because it would address the grievances of those who have been fighting against the Indian Government since the insurgency began in 1989. But critics say that, without external assistance, the region would not be economically viable.

The movement for independence in the Kashmir Valley gained momentum in the late 1980s when Kashmiris protested against their continuing allegiance to the Indian Union. In the present day, if a regional plebiscite offered independence as an option, it is possible that the majority of Kashmiris would vote in favour of independence.

With an approximate land mass of 1,800 square miles (80 miles long, 20 to 25 miles wide) it is much larger than Monaco and Liechtenstein – but only one-tenth of the size of Bhutan. Whether or not the rest of the state retained its current political affiliations, many Kashmiris therefore believe that the valley could be viable in its own right.

In terms of livelihood, the valley could sustain itself through tourism, handicrafts and agriculture.

But an independent Kashmir Valley would also need to retain good relations with its neighbours in order to survive economically. Not only is the region landlocked, but it is snowbound during winter.

An independent Kashmir Valley would have the advantage of giving neither Pakistan nor India a victory out of their longstanding dispute. But although Pakistan might favour the creation of an independent Kashmir Valley, India would be unlikely to agree to the loss of territory involved.

Autonomy of the same region under the Indian Union is also an option; Pakistan is more likely to request a 'joint protectorate' in order to share in safeguarding the Kashmir valley's political integrity and economic development.


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Scenario seven: The Chenab formula
This plan, first suggested in the 1960s, would see Kashmir divided along the line of the River Chenab. This would give the vast majority of land to Pakistan and, as such, a clear victory in its longstanding dispute with India. The entire valley with its Muslim majority population would be brought within Pakistan's borders, as well as the majority Muslim areas of Jammu.

With the inclusion of Ladakh, which also lies north of the Chenab river, India would be left with approximately 3,000 square miles of territory out of 84,000 square miles.

This solution would require the voluntary agreement of India to give up territory which it wants to retain. It is impossible to see what benefit India could derive from the transfer of so much land, and why the government - or the inhabitants of the region who are not contesting their status - would ever agree to such a solution.

It also does not take into account the movement for independence which has been extremely vocal ever since the insurgency began in the 1980s, and whose supporters have been demanding independence of all or part of the state.
 
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kashmir_4_350.gif

o.gif


o.gif

Scenario five: A smaller independent Kashmir
An independent Kashmir could be created from the Kashmir Valley - currently under Indian administration - and the narrow strip of land which Pakistan calls Azad Jammu and Kashmir. This would leave the strategically important regions of the Northern Areas and Ladakh, bordering China, under the control of Pakistan and India respectively. However both India and Pakistan would be unlikely to enter into discussions which would have this scenario as a possible outcome.

If, as the result of a regional plebiscite, which offered the option of independence, the majority of the inhabitants of the Kashmir Valley chose independence and the majority of the inhabitants of Pakistani-administered Jammu and Kashmir, (excluding the Northern Areas) also chose independence, a smaller, independent Kashmir could be created by administratively joining these two areas together.

This would leave the predominantly Muslim Northern Areas as part of Pakistan and Buddhist Ladakh and majority Hindu Jammu as part of India, with the possibility that some Muslim districts of Jammu might also opt to join the independent state.

Although Pakistan has demanded a change in the status of the Kashmir Valley, it depends on water from the Mangla Reservoir in Pakistani-administered Jammu and Kashmir and would be unlikely to permit loss of control of the region.

India is still committed to retaining the Kashmir Valley as part of the Indian Union and has refused to consider holding a plebiscite in any part of the state.

Regardless of the aspirations of the inhabitants, to date neither country has contemplated a situation where the end result would adversely affect their own interests.


kashmir_5_350.gif

o.gif


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Scenario six: Independent Kashmir Valley
An independent Kashmir Valley has been considered by some as the best solution because it would address the grievances of those who have been fighting against the Indian Government since the insurgency began in 1989. But critics say that, without external assistance, the region would not be economically viable.

The movement for independence in the Kashmir Valley gained momentum in the late 1980s when Kashmiris protested against their continuing allegiance to the Indian Union. In the present day, if a regional plebiscite offered independence as an option, it is possible that the majority of Kashmiris would vote in favour of independence.

With an approximate land mass of 1,800 square miles (80 miles long, 20 to 25 miles wide) it is much larger than Monaco and Liechtenstein – but only one-tenth of the size of Bhutan. Whether or not the rest of the state retained its current political affiliations, many Kashmiris therefore believe that the valley could be viable in its own right.

In terms of livelihood, the valley could sustain itself through tourism, handicrafts and agriculture.

But an independent Kashmir Valley would also need to retain good relations with its neighbours in order to survive economically. Not only is the region landlocked, but it is snowbound during winter.

An independent Kashmir Valley would have the advantage of giving neither Pakistan nor India a victory out of their longstanding dispute. But although Pakistan might favour the creation of an independent Kashmir Valley, India would be unlikely to agree to the loss of territory involved.

Autonomy of the same region under the Indian Union is also an option; Pakistan is more likely to request a 'joint protectorate' in order to share in safeguarding the Kashmir valley's political integrity and economic development.


kashmir_6_350.gif

o.gif


o.gif

Scenario seven: The Chenab formula
This plan, first suggested in the 1960s, would see Kashmir divided along the line of the River Chenab. This would give the vast majority of land to Pakistan and, as such, a clear victory in its longstanding dispute with India. The entire valley with its Muslim majority population would be brought within Pakistan's borders, as well as the majority Muslim areas of Jammu.

With the inclusion of Ladakh, which also lies north of the Chenab river, India would be left with approximately 3,000 square miles of territory out of 84,000 square miles.

This solution would require the voluntary agreement of India to give up territory which it wants to retain. It is impossible to see what benefit India could derive from the transfer of so much land, and why the government - or the inhabitants of the region who are not contesting their status - would ever agree to such a solution.

It also does not take into account the movement for independence which has been extremely vocal ever since the insurgency began in the 1980s, and whose supporters have been demanding independence of all or part of the state.
Lol you are absurd. Option 7 I could accept. That is as far I am willing to compromise.

Otherwise the Indian government are cheats.

Nice try though.

Muslims make 68% of Jammu and Kashmir under Indian Occupation. If anything Pakistan should have all of Jammu and Kashmir that is under Indian occupation.
 
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Kargil is the Shia majority area, but Leh which is the largest district in whole of J&K is Buddhist majority area. Why would they want to join Pakistan? I know that i should just shut up and take what ever we get, but unfortunately my thinking is different. I care more about the people than land.

Scenario 5 and 6 are being proposed.
 
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Yes but Ladakh is 46% Muslim and 39% Buddhist and others.

Yes but the Leh district would be impossible to govern by India while Kargil district belongs to Pakistan.

Yes but Muslims are still the largest group in Ladakh District.
View attachment 522429
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir#Demographics

So its only fair that Pakistan gets Ladakh too.

Anyways @Imad.Khan , you were the one who said Plebiscite is the best solution to the problem, Pakistan would get Hindu majority Jammu and a Ladakh where Buddhists are a significant minority.

Anyways.

Laddakh is not a district, Leh is district, Leh is on the east and Kargil on the west

main-qimg-2f790cfe32f507ab6c10a13a62a77584


I did say plebiscite is the best solution, but district wise. it would be a much fairer for the people.
 
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Laddakh is not a district, Leh is district, Leh is on the east and Kargil on the west

main-qimg-2f790cfe32f507ab6c10a13a62a77584


I did say plebiscite is the best solution, but district wise. it would be a much fairer for the people.
FINE. Then Plebiscite by district wise is as far I am willing to compromise. Thats the fairest solution to the problem.
Leh goes to India I suppose.

Ladakh is Buddhist majority region. Scenario 7 is not part of the proposal.
Ladakh is not a Buddhist majority you moron.

Ladakh is 46% Muslim and 39% Buddhist. You can wikipedia the demographics of Jammu and Kashmir.

Kargil district is a Muslim majority region.
 
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FINE. Then Plebiscite by district wise is as far I am willing to compromise. Thats the fairest solution to the problem.
Leh goes to India I suppose.


Ladakh is not a Buddhist majority you moron.

Ladakh is 46% Muslim and 39% Buddhist. You can wikipedia the demographics of Jammu and Kashmir.

Kargil district is a Muslim majority region.

upload_2018-11-26_20-6-27.png


Muslims in Kashmir valley are Sunnis.

Muslims in Ladakh are Shias.
 
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@Imad.Khan, I would have to agree with you, Plebiscite by district wise is the best solution to the problem to Kashmir dispute.

View attachment 522432

Muslims in Kashmir valley are Sunnis.

Muslims in Ladakh are Shias.
upload_2018-11-26_20-8-33.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir

My source is saying Buddhists make only 39% of Ladakh.

Even if you are right, Buddhists make a majority only in Leh district and not in Kargil district.

Shias who follow the mainstream Shia Islam are Muslims also.

Why bring sectarian politics in here?

@BHarwana ,your views?
@Indus Pakistan, your views?

Plebiscite by district wise in Indian occupied Jammu and Kashmir is the best solution to the Kashmir dispute.
 
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Pakistan should not give up any land.
It's not a question of should. Well it is, but that involves war. You grab by military force. Since that has not happened since 1948 we are left with negotiated settlement but that involves 'give and take' on both sides. If you expect 'give' then also be prepared to 'give'. Otherwise negotiations will stall and back to firing guns at each other.

My view. Which of course involves give on both sides -

  • Pak gives up AJK to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
  • India gives up Kashmir valley to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
  • Pak keeps Gilgit Baltistan.
  • India keeps Jammu/Ladakh.

Problem sorted. Then 1.5 billion people can sigh with relief and build a better South Asia. But of course this is not going to happen. Too many muscle guys on both sides who like posturing.
 
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@Imad.Khan, I would have to agree with you, Plebiscite by district wise is the best solution to the problem to Kashmir dispute.


View attachment 522436
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir

My source is saying Buddhists make only 39% of Ladakh.

Even if you are right, Buddhists make a majority only in Leh district and not in Kargil district.

Shias who follow the mainstream Shia Islam are Muslims also.

Why bring sectarian politics in here?

@BHarwana ,your views?
@Indus Pakistan, your views?

Plebiscite by district wise in Indian occupied Jammu and Kashmir is the best solution to the Kashmir dispute.

India tried to use the concept of sectarian divide in Kashmir but india even failed in that. Shia population in Kashmir hate India more than any one.
 
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It's not a question of should. Well it is, but that involves war. You grab by military force. Since that has not happened since 1948 we are left with negotiated settlement but that involves 'give and take' on both sides. If you expect 'give' then also be prepared to 'give'. Otherwise negotiations will stall and back to firing guns at each other.

My view. Which of course involves give on both sides -

  • Pak gives up AJK to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
  • India gives up Kashmir valley to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
  • Pak keeps Gilgit Baltistan.
  • India keeps Jammu/Ladakh.

Problem sorted. Then 1.5 billion people can sigh with relief and build a better South Asia. But of course this is not going to happen. Too many muscle guys on both sides who like posturing.
So you think Scenario 5?

My idea is Plebiscite by district wise where Pakistan also gets Kargil district or Scenario 5 where Pakistan keeps Gilgit-Baltistan.

After that no more compromises.

It's not a question of should. Well it is, but that involves war. You grab by military force. Since that has not happened since 1948 we are left with negotiated settlement but that involves 'give and take' on both sides. If you expect 'give' then also be prepared to 'give'. Otherwise negotiations will stall and back to firing guns at each other.

My view. Which of course involves give on both sides -

  • Pak gives up AJK to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
  • India gives up Kashmir valley to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
  • Pak keeps Gilgit Baltistan.
  • India keeps Jammu/Ladakh.

Problem sorted. Then 1.5 billion people can sigh with relief and build a better South Asia. But of course this is not going to happen. Too many muscle guys on both sides who like posturing.
You mentioned Ladakh section. But Kargil is a Muslim majority district. That should go to Pakistan, while Leh district goes to India.

There done!

Scenario 5 with Kargil district being part of Kashmir, or Plebiscite by district wise in Indian occupied Jammu and Kashmir.

Thats the fairest solution to the problem.
 
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But Kargil is a Muslim majority district
So? There are nearly 200 million Muslims in India. The valley is the main point of trouble. Let India keep Kargil. Go bu what I suggested. Go by what India will actually accept. Get i done. Then cut defence expendture by bloody 50%. Saved money goes on schools, health, housing, poverty and police.
 
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So? There are nearly 200 million Muslims in India. The valley is the main point of trouble. Let India keep Kargil. Go bu what I suggested. Go by what India will actually accept. Get i done. Then cut defence expendture by bloody 50%. Saved money goes on schools, health, housing, poverty and police.

I almost agree with you.


You mentioned 200 million Muslims in India. Fine.

I do not consider Indian occupied Jammu and Kashmir to be part of India nor does the United Nations.

If Kargil district can be part of the Kashmir valley then I could accept scenario 5 or scenario 6.

There done, Kashmir dispute solved!
 
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