Kashmir, the “Final” solution!

[SuvarnaTeja]

Are you really sane.
This is too good to be true.
Even in my wildest dream I cannot imagine a better solution without war.
The ladak and gilgit baltistan were one part and jammu and kashmir were one.
India takes ladakh and pakistan takes gilgit baltistan.
Now remains the Valley.
Which should be divided into jammu and kashmir. Jammu can be given to idnia and kashmir can be to Pakistan through referendum.
But Modi is not that simpleton.
Really. Even I his biggest critic don't think he is that much of a moreon.
If he does that, he would be remembered a the beacon of peace.

The guys who look tough have soft hearts.


Norway’s former PM visits Kashmir as part of Modi govt’s ‘Glasnost’
JYOTI MALHOTRA 27 November, 2018

Hurriyat leaders Syed Ali Shah Geelani (L) and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq (C) with Kjell Magne Bondevik (R), former Norwegian prime minister | @MirwaizKashmir ‏/Twitter
Text Size:
Modi govt felt it was ‘time to open up to the outside world’, in the hope that the high-profile visitors would help in changing the narrative on Kashmir.

New Delhi: The Narendra Modi government has decided to open up Jammu & Kashmir to foreign leaders, ambassadors accredited to the government of India, as well as other influential people in the hope that the visitors will see “that the situation is not as bad as it is made out to be in the media”.

The visit to Srinagar last week by the former prime minister of Norway, Kjell Magne Bondevik, is believed to have had the blessings of National Security Advisor Ajit Doval.

Bondevik met Hurriyat leaders Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, with the visit being brokered by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar’s Art of Living.

An Art of Living source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, told ThePrint that the humanitarian mandate of the organisation means that its leaders reach out to people in conflict zones, of which Kashmir is one.

The meeting between Bondevik and the Hurriyat, at which an Art of Living representative was present, is a huge change in the Modi government’s mindset — for the last several months, it has been trying to forge a government in the state which would be mentored by the BJP.

On the one hand, BJP national general secretary Ram Madhav pushed People’s Conference leader Sajad Lone to form a government. On the other, the government felt it was “time to open up to the outside world”, in the hope that the visitors would at least somewhat help in changing the narrative.

Also read: Ex-governors, including a Vajpayee appointee, question J&K assembly dissolution

Change of heart and head
In an election year, just as Modi hopes to take credit for opening up the Kartarpur Sahib corridor to Pakistan, a change of both heart and head vis-à-vis Kashmir seems to have taken place in Delhi.

For the first time, there is some acknowledgement that the Kashmir problem cannot be solved just by “killing 400 young men in south Kashmir”, a figure which BJP leaders have often cited in their defence of the muscular approach it adopted in government.

The permission for the ex-Norwegian prime minister to visit Kashmiri separatist leaders and, within a few days, fly to Azad Kashmir and visit leaders across the Line of Control is nothing short of extraordinary.

Farooq Abdullah, former chief minister of J&K, told ThePrint that the government gave permission for Bondevik to meet the Hurriyat because “they don’t know what to do”.

Also read: J&K elections could be held beyond 6-month period, like Anantnag bypoll

What led to the change
The UN Human Rights Commission wrote an extremely critical report of the situation in Kashmir in the summer, casting a shadow on India’s democratic credentials.

Then, when India’s high commissioner to Pakistan Ajay Bisaria and a few other diplomats visited Kashmir in the summer, they felt that it might be a good idea to open it up and allow its people to breathe a bit.

So, when the Norwegians came calling, riding on the self-belief of successfully brokering conflict negotiations, Delhi decided to quietly say yes. Doval was said to be instrumental in this decision.

Norway’s Erik Solheim was involved in Sri Lanka for years, hoping to broker an end to the conflict between the Tamils and the Sinhala government. But when the end came, it was India which held its nose, allowing former president Mahinda Rajapaksa to finish the decimation of the LTTE, while Indian naval boats secured the waters off Jaffna so as to prevent ex-LTTE chief Prabhakaran from escaping.

It is nobody’s case that one meeting by an Art of Living representative amounts to “brokering” a tangled matter for decades. But just like the Kartarpur Sahib corridor example showed, one thing led to another, and on the tenth anniversary of the Mumbai attacks, the Modi government went back on its own order.

https://theprint.in/governance/norw...ashmir-as-part-of-modi-govts-glasnost/155355/

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Of course they will, valley is tiny part of Kashmir. So technically Pakistan already have 80% of muslim majority land. That leaves us with less land and more corrupt Kashmiris braderi? We are already sick of Nawaz Sharif. @Zibago

May as well continue the dispute to take revenge of Baloch insurgency.

This is more then enough . More then enough simply.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

How do you know the Shias want nothing to do with Pakistan? Where is your proof? I heard the Shias of Kargil hate India. lol.

Hold your brains in place.

Kargil district of Ladakh section is Muslim majority even if it is a shia majority.
Leh district of Ladakh section is Buddhist majority, that can go to India.

Plebiscite by district wise is the only Solution to the Kashmir dispute.


I was thinking Plebiscite by district wise where India gets Leh district and most of Jammu. So India gets something out of it.

The people of Kargil are pro India and supported India during the Kargil war.

 

[MultaniGuy]

The people of Kargil are pro India and supported India during the Kargil war.

That is your opinion. We will see when the Plebiscite happens.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

It's not a question of should. Well it is, but that involves war. You grab by military force. Since that has not happened since 1948 we are left with negotiated settlement but that involves 'give and take' on both sides. If you expect 'give' then also be prepared to 'give'. Otherwise negotiations will stall and back to firing guns at each other.

My view. Which of course involves give on both sides -

• Pak gives up AJK to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
• India gives up Kashmir valley to independent Kashmir with restrictions attached jointly by India/Pak.
• Pak keeps Gilgit Baltistan.
• India keeps Jammu/Ladakh.

Problem sorted. Then 1.5 billion people can sigh with relief and build a better South Asia. But of course this is not going to happen. Too many muscle guys on both sides who like posturing.

That sounds like a good idea on paper but I can see a couple flaws.
1. the Kashmir valley is a tiny part of JaK state and would have a hard time surviving on its own. it would be dependent on India and Pakistan to survive
2. The entirety of JaK state is large enough to be an independent country, and it makes sense for India and Pakistan and India to cede their portions to an independent JaK. But the issue is Hindu majority Jammu and buddhist majority Ladakh may not want to be part of an overwhelmingly Muslim state, and they may not accept that solution. And I doubt Pakistan will be willing to give up AJK and GB if India does not cede Jammu and Ladakh.
So basically, the problem is that out of the three parries involved(India, Pakistan, the people of JaK) SOMEONE will have to give up something, and none of them seem willing to do that. It does not help that JaK is demographically and ethnically diverse with different peoples having their own agendas. The bottomline is that neither india and Pakistan will be willing to give up an inch of land without getting something in return, and will cite the treatment of Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus as justification. Hence, the situation is a stalemate. Now, if we want to bring in a dark horse, than perhaps India will give up its portion of the Kashmir Valley if it gets a different piece of land such as Tharparkar district of Sindh, The district with the highest percentage of Hindus. But obviously, nothing like that is going to happen.

Even if a plebiscite is conducted, there will still be problems. Let's assume the India agrees to hold a plebiscite supervised by the UN. The results are extremely close, within a couple thousand or even hundred votes. Obviously, people who voted for the losing side will be upset and may not accept the results. Just look at what happened in the 2000 election between 2000 between Bush and Gore. Even as recently as a couple weeks ago close races caused a lot of tension and controversy. And of course there is the allegations of voter fraud and voter suppression.

So obviously, there is no easy solution to this problem I think the best solution would be for both sides to recognize the status quo will never change and to simply make the LOC an international border.

 

[MultaniGuy]

That sounds like a good idea on paper but I can see a couple flaws.
1. the Kashmir valley is a tiny part of JaK state and would have a hard time surviving on its own. it would be dependent on India and Pakistan to survive
2. The entirety of JaK state is large enough to be an independent country, and it makes sense for India and Pakistan and India to cede their portions to an independent JaK. But the issue is Hindu majority Jammu and buddhist majority Ladakh may not want to be part of an overwhelmingly Muslim state, and they may not accept that solution. And I doubt Pakistan will be willing to give up AJK and GB if India does not cede Jammu and Ladakh.
So basically, the problem is that out of the three parries involved(India, Pakistan, the people of JaK) SOMEONE will have to give up something, and none of them seem willing to do that. It does not help that JaK is demographically and ethnically diverse with different peoples having their own agendas. The bottomline is that neither india and Pakistan will be willing to give up an inch of land without getting something in return, and will cite the treatment of Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus as justification. Hence, the situation is a stalemate. Now, if we want to bring in a dark horse, than perhaps India will give up its portion of the Kashmir Valley if it gets a different piece of land such as Tharparkar district of Sindh, The district with the highest percentage of Hindus. But obviously, nothing like that is going to happen.

Even if a plebiscite is conducted, there will still be problems. Let's assume the India agrees to hold a plebiscite supervised by the UN. The results are extremely close, within a couple thousand or even hundred votes. Obviously, people who voted for the losing side will be upset and may not accept the results. Just look at what happened in the 2000 election between 2000 between Bush and Gore. Even as recently as a couple weeks ago close races caused a lot of tension and controversy. And of course there is the allegations of voter fraud and voter suppression.

So obviously, there is no easy solution to this problem I think the best solution would be for both sides to recognize the status quo will never change and to simply make the LOC an international border.

Wrong answer. Plebiscite by district is the best solution.

Hindu and Buddhist majority districts go to India.

Muslim majority districts go to Pakistan.

Simple as that.

I am not saying Plebiscite of Jammu and Kashmir region as a region, but do it on a district scale. Easiest way to solve the problem.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Wrong answer. Plebiscite by district is the best solution.

Hindu and Buddhist majority districts go to India.

Muslim majority districts go to Pakistan.

Simple as that.

I am not saying Plebiscite of Jammu and Kashmir region as a region, but do it on a district scale. Easiest way to solve the problem.

I understand what you are saying but India is not going to give anything up without getting anything in return. And following that logic, shouldn't Sindh's tharakparkar district have been given to India since it was 80 percent Hindu in 47? Even today over 40 percent of the population is Hindu.

 

[MultaniGuy]

I understand what you are saying but India is not going to give anything up without getting anything in return. And following that logic, shouldn't Sindh's tharakparkar district have been given to India since it was 80 percent Hindu in 47? Even today over 40 percent of the population is Hindu.

I am talking about solving the Kashmir dispute. Partition of South Asia happened on a different terms.

I am talking about partitioning Kashmir dispute by district where India gets something. Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Leh district of Ladakh.

I understand what you are saying but India is not going to give anything up without getting anything in return. And following that logic, shouldn't Sindh's tharakparkar district have been given to India since it was 80 percent Hindu in 47? Even today over 40 percent of the population is Hindu.

Going by your logic then Pakistan should get all of Jammu and Kashmir state because partition was about which population makes provincial majority.

Kashmir region is a Muslim majority region of 80-90% if you take the Pakistani and Indian sides together.

Don't obfuscate now.

I was being nice by saying Plebiscite by district where India get Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Leh district of Ladakh.

And don't bring up the Shia Muslims of Kargil district. Shia Ithna Ashari Muslims are still considered Muslims even if Sunnis don't agree with "all" of their interpretation of Islam.

Shias are not completely wrong, but some of it is according to Sunnis.


Stop beating around the bush.

@war&peace your opinion is needed here. Thanks.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I am talking about solving the Kashmir dispute. Partition of South Asia happened on a different terms.

I am talking about partitioning Kashmir dispute by district where India gets something. Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Leh district of Ladakh.


Going by your logic then Pakistan should get all of Jammu and Kashmir state because partition was about which population makes provincial majority.

Kashmir region is a Muslim majority region of 80-90% if you take the Pakistani and Indian sides together.

Don't obfuscate now.

I was being nice by saying Plebiscite by district where India get Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Leh district of Ladakh.

And don't bring up the Shia Muslims of Kargil district. Shia Ithna Ashari Muslims are still considered Muslims even if Sunnis don't agree with "all" of their interpretation of Islam.

Shias are not completely wrong, but some of it is according to Sunnis.


Stop beating around the bush.

@war&peace your opinion is needed here. Thanks.

you are missing the point. I already told you India will not give up any territory without getting anything in return and neither will Pakistan. and I don't care about Shia vs Sunni, what I am saying is that Kargil Muslims supported India during the kargil War, just look it up. A lot of Kargil Muslims serve in the Indian Army.
anyway, as I said, neither side will give up anything unless it gets some concessions That is the ground reality.

 

[MultaniGuy]

you are missing the point. I already told you India will not give up any territory without getting anything in return and neither will Pakistan. and I don't care about Shia vs Sunni, what I am saying is that Kargil Muslims supported India during the kargil War, just look it up. A lot of Kargil Muslims serve in the Indian Army.
anyway, as I said, neither side will give up anything unless it gets some concessions That is the ground reality.

India is getting something out of the Kashmir dispute. Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist Leh district.

Stop being retarded here.

The rest of Muslim majority Kashmir goes to Pakistan.

But of course you are not understanding that.

 

[valkyr_96]

The people of Kargil are pro India and supported India during the Kargil war.

Recently they have been protesting as well...there was a thread here when some Shias were killed

 

[Cobra Arbok]

India is getting something out of the Kashmir dispute. Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist Leh district.

Stop being retarded here.

The rest of Muslim majority Kashmir goes to Pakistan.

But of course you are not understanding that.

What I meant was in that situation India will give up land without getting any new land. So it will not accept that deal.

 

[HalfMoon]

Imran Khan admits 2008 Mumbai attacks were led by Pak-based LeT; Indian Army Chief Bipin Rawat says knew it
Khan acknowledged that the attacks were 'an act of terrorism'.

Written By:

Zee Media Bureau


Updated:
Dec 08, 2018, 14:57 PM IST
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NEW DELHI/ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan admitted to international media that banned terror outfit Lashkar-e-Toiba, led by Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, was behind the November 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Acknowledging that the attacks were “an act of terrorism”, Khan said he's asked his government find out the status of the case.

During an interview to American daily The Washinton Post, journalist Lally Weymouth asked Khan, “India really wants to see the perpetrators of the 2008 Mumbai bombing prosecuted. The mastermind, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, a leader of the terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba, was released on bail in Pakistan while a nine-year trial has dragged on for six other suspects, with no results.”

To this Khan responded, “We also want something done about the bombers of Mumbai. I have asked our government to find out the status of the case. Resolving that case is in our interest because it was an act of terrorism.”

Referring to the recently opened Kartarpur corridor, the cricketer-turned-politician added, “I have opened a visa-free peace corridor with India called Kartarpur [so that Indian Sikhs can visit a holy shrine in Pakistan]. Let’s hope that after the election is over, we can again resume talks with India.”

Responding to Khan's comment, Indian Army Chief Bipin Rawat said, “We know who did it. I don't think we have to get anymore statement from anybody. International community knows who did it. Acceptance is good but even without it, we knew who had done it.”

Amid growing demands from the Trump administration to do more to combat terrorism emanating from its soil, Khan said he would not allow Pakistan to be treated like a "hired gun" to fight someone else's war.

The ties between Washington and Islamabad strained, especially after President Donald Trump, while announcing his Afghanistan and South Asia policy in August last year, hit out at Pakistan for providing safe havens to "agents of chaos" that kill Americans in Afghanistan.

In May this year, former Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif had admitted that Pakistan-based terror outfits were responsible for 2008 Mumbai blasts.

Speaking in an interview to Pakistan media Dawn, Sharif said, "Militant organisations are active. Call them non-state actors, should we allow them to cross-border and kill 150 people in Mumbai? Why can't we complete trial?"

As many as 10 heavily-armed Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists forced their way into the city of Mumbai on November 26, 2008 and carried out coordinated shooting and bombing. The assault on the financial capital of India lasted until November 29.

http://zeenews.india.com/india/2008...y-chief-bipin-rawat-says-knew-it-2161887.html

2016 Surgical strike overhyped and politicised: Retired Lieutenant General D S Hooda
Hooda was the Northern Army commander when the surgical strikes were carried out on September 29, 2016.

Written By:

Zee Media Bureau


Updated:
Dec 08, 2018, 09:19 AM IST
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CHANDIGARH: Retired Indian Army Lieutenant General D S Hooda on Friday claimed that there was too much hype over the 2016 surgical strikes.

“I do think there was too much hype over it (surgical strike). The strike was important and we had to do it,” said Hooda while speaking at a panel discussion on 'Role of Cross-Border Operations and Surgical Strikes' on the first day of Military Literature Festival (MLF) 2018 in Chandigarh.

“Now how much should it have been politicised, whether it was right or wrong is something that should be asked to the politicians,” he added.



#WATCH: Lt Gen (retd) DS Hooda, who was Chief of the Northern Command of the Army when surgical strike was executed in 2016, says "Surgical strike was overhyped & politicised."https://t.co/P8r8QBd3pL

— ANI (@ani) December 8, 2018



Hooda was the Northern Army commander when the surgical strikes were carried out on September 29, 2016, across the Line of Control (LoC) as a response to a terrorist attack in Uri earlier that month.

The retired Lieutenant General added that it was natural to have initial euphoria about the success but the constant 'maintenance of hype around the military operations was' unwarranted, the release said.

In hindsight, he added, it would have been better had we done it (surgical strikes) secretly.

“People should know the history and the literature associated with their country`s military. These kind of festivals are extremely important as the general public gets exposure to interact army and military, usually, their interaction is quite limited. You see, there is secrecy around the military. These are venues were civilians and army can interact and understand their viewpoints better,” said Hooda.

With agency inputs

http://zeenews.india.com/india/surg...red-lieutenant-general-d-s-hooda-2161836.html

Are you really sane.
This is too good to be true.
Even in my wildest dream I cannot imagine a better solution without war.
The ladak and gilgit baltistan were one part and jammu and kashmir were one.
India takes ladakh and pakistan takes gilgit baltistan.
Now remains the Valley.
Which should be divided into jammu and kashmir. Jammu can be given to idnia and kashmir can be to Pakistan through referendum.
But Modi is not that simpleton.
Really. Even I his biggest critic don't think he is that much of a moreon.
If he does that, he would be remembered a the beacon of peace.


You are not sane.
I am now sure.
I mean why they are at each other necks of they have worked everything out.

People on both sides may be in denial but the peace process is continuing.

See the statements from both sides above.

 

[Kaniska]

Kashmir valley is a waste..India should give up valley and retain rest of J&k...problem solved..

 

[HalfMoon]

Kashmir valley is a waste..India should give up valley and retain rest of J&k...problem solved..

Why should India give up land? Ridiculous. If people have issues with India they can move to Pakistan.