Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[SekrutYakhni]

Plebiscite is the only solution.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Officially, baat kis se karein....ISI se, Kiyani sahab se, Zardari sahab se, or Gilani sahab se....which one would be more effective?

I can only wish my sincere good wishes to the Indian and Pakistani leaders....it's time for some action now, baat bahut ho chuki hai....

Good luck Mr. Qureshi and Mr. Krishna...
PM hopeful on Pak ties, wants Qureshi to visit

If the Military controls foreign policy, then the GoP of that time will obviously parrot the military line. This is just a canard to refuse talks with Pakistan.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Originally posted by AgnosticMuslim!

Quite frankly that reflects Pakistan's intentions to continue engagement with India along the lines of the Musharraf initiative, of not using insurgency to push the issue. It is time now for the Indians, government, media and intelligentsia, to stop scapegoating Pakistan and come to the table to resolve the dispute in a trilateral format that includes the Kashmiris separatists.

Edit:
Musharaf made a right move in fact he took a great initiative to solve the issue. However, Indians did what they always do. This shows the intensions of Indian side!

I do not think that they will come to the table with good will.

 

[rajgoynar]

Indian Kashmir sees further clashes

Demonstrators in Kashmir have thrown stones at Indian police officers who have responded by firing tear gas and shots into the air, during a strict curfew imposed after deadly protests.

The clashes on Tuesday in Baramulla, north of Indian Kashmir's main city of Srinagar, came a day after violence that led to the deaths of 19 people.

Three protesters were wounded on Tuesday, according to a police officer speaking on condition of anonymity to the Associated Press news agency.

Another two demonstrators were injured in a village close to Srinagar when police fired shots at them, the officer said. The shooting sparked further clashes.

Thousands of police have been stationed in the region to prevent further violence, while all fights to Srinagar have been suspended.

'Go India'

Monday's protests were held against Indian rule and reports of Quran burning. It was the most deadly day of violence since mass demonstrations began three months ago, state police said.

Despite the curfew, tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets on Monday, throwing rocks, torching government buildings and chanting "Go India, go back. We want freedom.''

Security forces shot live ammunition at some of the crowds, killing people in at least five different villages, a police officer said.

In the village of Tangmarg, troops fired at thousands of rock-throwing demonstrators, killing five people and wounding at least 50 others, the police officer said. Earlier, protesters burned at least four government buildings as well as a schoolhouse in the town.

In Budgam, troops tried to disperse demonstrators with tear gas and baton charges but began firing into the crowd after protesters attacked a police station and the government forces with rocks, the police officer said.

At least four people including a young woman were killed and at least 30 others were wounded, some critically.

A policeman was also killed during the protests in Budgam after he was hit by a vehicle that then sped away, the officer said. At least four other protesters were killed in three other towns, he said.

'House arrest'

Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, the main separatist leader, told Al Jazeera there is no room for political protest in Kashmir.
"I have been under house arrest since Eid, many of my party have been arrested," Farooq said.

"In many places the protests are very peaceful ... [but Indian] troops are firing indiscriminately [at protesters]."

Monday's toll included at least seven people killed in police clashes after thousands of Muslim protesters set fire to a Christian missionary school and government buildings in two Kashmiri districts to denounce reports on the Iranian state-run channel, Press TV, that copies of the Quran had been damaged in the US over the weekend.

Though a Florida pastor called off his plans to burn the Muslim holy book, the channel showed footage of a different man destroying a Quran.

The protesters chanted "Down with Quran desecraters,'' and protest leaders denounced the alleged desecration in speeches to the crowds.

The death toll was the highest since separatist protests broke out in June against Indian rule in the northern state.

In a statement at the end of a special cabinet meeting on Kashmir, on Monday, the Indian government said it was "deeply distressed by the turn of events" and appealed for calm.

'Incoherent policy'

However, it decided against heeding calls from some in the government to partially lift a 20-year-old army emergency law, that gives sweeping powers to security forces in Kashmir.

The government offered to take part in talks with all peaceful groups in Kashmir, which would cover the "trust deficit and the governance deficit".

It also called an all-party meeting for Wednesday in New Delhi "to take certain initiatives and measures that will build confidence of people."

Saeed Naqvi, a political commentator based in New Delhi, told Al Jazeera that Delhi has been preoccupied with other problems and ignored the Kashmir issue.

"There is a trust deficit [between India and Kashmir] and it has been addressed by inaction, unimaginative policy, even absence of policy, on the part of New Delhi," he said.

"There is angst and anger [in Kashmir]. After three months of bloodshed and agitation ... [the struggle] has acquired an intensity and velocity. All they had to do was tone down the profile of the army.

"Nobody likes a foreign army and the Indian army looks like a foreign army to them."

Indian Kashmir sees further clashes - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

 

[GUNNER]

You're still missing the point. It has come out and said it stands with Kashmiri's, SMQ has come out with condemnation and uttered the resolution in accordance with UN resolutions etc etc.

I think Civfanatic has a point here. While GOP has issued condemnation, the next thing to do is to launch what is called a diplomatic offensive. Pakistan is party to the dispute and hence is bound to make a move on part of the Kashmiri people. It should take up the issue in UN and other international forums to build the pressure on India while it is already on the defensive. The world should be made to realzie that while ultimate solution of the dispute is to be settled by the two countries and the people of Kashmir, the brutality of the Indian forces must be condemned and stopped. By chosing to stay quiet for whatever reasons, they condone the acts of tyranny which would be unacceptable in any other part of the world.

 

[alibaz]

Qureshi urges India to exercise restraint, find a solution
ISLAMABAD: Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi on Tuesday strongly condemned the blatant violence by Indian security forces against Kashmiri people that claimed scores of innocent lives since June.

Commenting on the ongoing situation in Indian-occupied Kashmir, the Foreign Minister urged India to exercise restraint and, instead of resorting to violence and procrastination, work towards finding a solution to the Jammu and Kashmir dispute in accordance with the relevant UN resolution and aspirations of Kashmiris.

He expressed Pakistan's unequivocal solidarity with the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

He reiterated that Pakistan will continue to extend its political, moral and diplomatic support to the people of Jammu and Kashmir for their right to self-determination.
Qureshi urges India to exercise restraint, find a solution - GEO.tv

 

[Patrician]

The silence of the GoP on the Kashmir issue pretty much explains what stance it has taken.

Regardless of the propaganda and nonsense published in the Indian media about the 'ISI sponsoring stone pelters' the facts are that infiltration across the LoC remains at historic lows, as it has for almost a decade now since Musharraf's initiative to try a different tact of resolving the dispute with India, and Pakistan has made almost no attempt to easily exploit a very explosive situation in Kashmir. What little infiltration that occurs has to be accepted given the rugged terrain and the inability of any State to seal off such a demarcation line 100%.

Leave alone covert support for separatists, there has been no diplomatic offensive either, nor was there much of one in the past with the other massive protests in Kashmir.

Quite frankly that reflects Pakistan's intentions to continue engagement with India along the lines of the Musharraf initiative, of not using insurgency to push the issue. It is time now for the Indians, government, media and intelligentsia, to stop scapegoating Pakistan and come to the table to resolve the dispute in a trilateral format that includes the Kashmiris separatists.

The ball is in India's court on this issue.

AM my friend, can you?

I agree with quite a few points in your post except the part that the dialogue has to include seperatists.

Seperatists do not represent ladakh
Seperatists do not represent Jammu
Seperatists do not represent Pandits

Heck, seperatists do not even represent the valley beyond a certain extent.

One more proof of the seperatists' irrelevance can be gauged by the fact the MMS and mushy were at a very advanced stage in resoving the kashmir problem and that dialogue didn't include the seperatists. So it is clear that a solution can be reached even without the seperatists.


P.S. AM every Kashmir thread is getting derailed as we all take recourse to the same few points again and again and it is very difficult to keep track of the members' replies in so many different threads. With your permission, I'd like to create a thread called "All views on Kashmir" where we could systematically post our views and discussions such as the current one we are having. May I?

 

[DGMO]

I think Civfanatic has a point here. While GOP has issued condemnation, the next thing to do is to launch what is called a diplomatic offensive. Pakistan is party to the dispute and hence is bound to make a move on part of the Kashmiri people. It should take up the issue in UN and other international forums to build the pressure on India while it is already on the defensive. The world should be made to realzie that while ultimate solution of the dispute is to be settled by the two countries and the people of Kashmir, the brutality of the Indian forces must be condemned and stopped. By chosing to stay quiet for whatever reasons, they condone the acts of tyranny which would be unacceptable in any other part of the world.

And as I have said countless times, what will a 'diplomatic offensive' achieve?

Don't the OIC have TV's or read the press reports? How loudly is the P5 speaking out? How loudly have the EU spoken out in the past 2 months? Nothing, zilch.

India whether we like it or not has the clout to tell those nations 'keep your nose out, this is an internal matter, messy as it is, it's internal'. And those nations are obliging.

So let's say we go on a diplomatic offensive. Do you honestly feel we'll get cries of condemnation from Washington and Brussels? No we won't. What we will get are toned down criticism such as 'we would urge for all sides to demonstrate maximum restraint and avoid any injury or loss to civlian life' etc etc. What do we do then, everyone in the FO give each other high-fives? Pop the champagne corks? Does that stop the suffering of the Kashmiri's? Will India take heed? Nope.

The solution lies in India to stop dithering, and to do something. But as the AFP report touches on, there is 'paralysis'in New Delhi. Whatever it proposes is shot down by the separatists and is seen as insufficient. So the cycle of violence is here to stay for the foreseeable future - barring any drastic change in tune from the GoI.

 

[DGMO]

Plebiscite is the only solution.

No it's not.

 

[GUNNER]

We have no sympathy for anyone who wants to use violence while protesting, thats not protesting, thats rioting, and that applies to everyone, not just Kashmiris.

Easy said than done really. The same cops who are being hailed for killing of protesting Kashmiri civilians, will be mauled and dubbed 'killers in uniform' if they shot at a violent or rioting protest in an indian city. All hue and cry will be raised by the indian media and i am sure many heads will role.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

No it's not.

Why not? Any specific reasons/concerns?

We should have a sticky Kashmir thread rather than several threads going on at the same time.

 

[deckingraj]

If the Military controls foreign policy, then the GoP of that time will obviously parrot the military line. This is just a canard to refuse talks with Pakistan.

Sorry but this is a very naive response....The issue is really an important one, which can be ignored if the intention is India bashing....Otherwise it is plane simple that you want to talk to people who can take difficult decisions...To solve an issue as complex as Kashmir the last thing you want to do is talk to proxies no matter what side of border they belong to....One must not forget that a lot of progress was made during Musharraf era even though he was the architect of Kargil. Reason is simple - he had power to take decisions....

Now all those who are saying India is refusing to talk needs a reality check....Many people also contribute Mumbai for breaking the dialogue process....However the real reason was the political unstabality that Pak was going through in 2007...Obviously mumbai did not do any good and compelled GOI to be more assertive on terrrorism when it comes to talks..In fact made GOI life difficult to carry on dialogue process without any tangible action on terrorism....However the real deal breaker was political instability in Pak....

You might not be interested but MMS has done a lot from his end to carry on the dialogue process....His heroics at Sharma-e-Sheikh is supposed to be appreciated....Even with such a dilly-dally response from Pak about mumbai attacks he has managed to get talks going atleast at some level...Heck even after that recently Kureshi mis-behaved and break all the protocols viz-a-viz our foreign minister...So all those who are pointing fingers at India should just ponder a bit more on their side of border....

 

[Rajput Warrior]

Another youngster Killed by indian occupiers.......MURDER TOLL RISES TO 19..

 

[GUNNER]

India whether we like it or not has the clout to tell those nations 'keep your nose out, this is an internal matter, messy as it is, it's internal'. And those nations are obliging.

Agreed. But does that mean GOP should contend itself by doing nothing? While i agree to the above mentioned point, there is always a tipping point. Among other things, one thing that recent protests in Kashmir hope to achieve is international recognition. And it is coming. Slowly but it is. If you see the recent coverage in international media, the focus is shifting away from Pakistani interference and is moving more towards what India is doing in Kashmir. Pakistan can build on this. And even if it achieves nothing at the end, at least we tried. Most of all, it will show to the Kashmiris that we care if no one else does.

 

[alibaz]

SRINAGAR: Indian police patrolled the streets of Kashmir on Tuesday, threatening to shoot anyone defying a rigid curfew imposed on the region a day after troops battled protesters in the streets in violence that killed 19 people.

The region has been wracked by anti-India protests throughout the summer, but the chaos Monday —exacerbated by reports of a Quran desecration in the United States —was the deadliest here since large-scale demonstrations began in June.

In an attempt to prevent another round of violence, police and paramilitary soldiers drove through the deserted streets of the main towns of Indian-administered Kashmir, using loudspeakers to announce that curfew violators would be shot on sight.

But scores of demonstrators took to the streets of Baramulla and hurled rocks at police.

Soldiers retaliated by firing shots in the air and launching tear gas shells, wounding three protesters, said a police officer speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to speak to the media.

In overnight protests, demonstrators set fire to a police vehicle in Charar-e-Sharief, 30 miles (45 kilometers) southwest of Srinagar, police said.

The region has been roiled for months by separatist protests that often descend into clashes with government forces.

The violence has killed at least 88 people this summer —mostly teenage boys and young men in their 20s.

The anti-India protests turned into rare anti-America protests Monday as reports of a Quran desecration in the United States intensified the anger of demonstrators, with activists chanting ''Down with America'' and burning an effigy of President Barack Obama.

The protesters burned government buildings and Christian missionary school and threw rocks at troops, who responded by firing into the crowds.

The death toll from that violence rose to 19 on Tuesday, including 18 demonstrators and one police officer.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/04-kashmir-8-killed-qs-06