Rajput Warrior
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DEATH TO THE MURDERERS!
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And as I have said countless times, what will a 'diplomatic offensive' achieve?
Don't the OIC have TV's or read the press reports? How loudly is the P5 speaking out? How loudly have the EU spoken out in the past 2 months? Nothing, zilch.
India whether we like it or not has the clout to tell those nations 'keep your nose out, this is an internal matter, messy as it is, it's internal'. And those nations are obliging.
So let's say we go on a diplomatic offensive. Do you honestly feel we'll get cries of condemnation from Washington and Brussels? No we won't. What we will get are toned down criticism such as 'we would urge for all sides to demonstrate maximum restraint and avoid any injury or loss to civlian life' etc etc. What do we do then, everyone in the FO give each other high-fives? Pop the champagne corks? Does that stop the suffering of the Kashmiri's? Will India take heed? Nope.
The solution lies in India to stop dithering, and to do something. But as the AFP report touches on, there is 'paralysis'in New Delhi. Whatever it proposes is shot down by the separatists and is seen as insufficient. So the cycle of violence is here to stay for the foreseeable future - barring any drastic change in tune from the GoI.
Because:Why not? Any specific reasons/concerns?
Easy said than done really. The same cops who are being hailed for killing of protesting Kashmiri civilians, will be mauled and dubbed 'killers in uniform' if they shot at a violent or rioting protest in an indian city. All hue and cry will be raised by the indian media and i am sure many heads will role.
Quite a sensible post for which I must commend and thank you.
I do not, though, agree with the bolded part. GoI is trying its best. The problem is that India is a democracy and with something as complex aqs Kashmir, GoI has listen to every shade of opinion. Let me give you an idea.
1. Some people demand completely abolishing the article 370 which grants Kashmir as a special status under the indian constitution. Abolishing article 370 will make kashmir just like any other state of India allowing other Indians to buy land, invest in buisnesses and other such activities as are allowed to every citizen of India in any state of India. Their point is that by doing so, Kashmir will come into the mainstream. Money will start pouring in. Business opporunities for kashmiris will be created and resulting development will solve the issue slowly and steadily.
2. Some people demand that Kashmir be granted all the autonomy that ir was promised at the time it acceded to India. Abolishing AFSPA etc. and demilitarisation are all a prt of this option. This actually calls the GoI to give complete autonomy to J&K exceot on the three issues of Defence, Foreign Policy and Communication which will subsequesntly be retained by the GoI.
3. There is one view of Ladakh, Jammu and other districts f J&K which want to remain India and want to have nothing to do with this problem.
4. There is one view of Kashmiri Pandits who belong to kashmir but again want to remain firmly with India.
5. There is one view of armed/security forces who see all this with their own distinct viewpoint keeping in mind the overall security and integrity of the nation.
So you see there and so many different viewpoints and with India being a democracy, GoI cannot ingonre any party and must listen to all shades of views. This whole process takes time. It's very tedious job to reach a consensus within India itself.
Thanks Patrician, and I agree with what you say. I have touched on a few posts back that India finds itself in a bind like no other. There is also the tug and pull from the Security Forces as they believe relinquishing AFSPA could be a mistake.
What I'm critical of is that there doesn't seem to be that 'grab this issue by the scruff of the neck' approach, and we're more than 2 months into it. A lot of back and forth between ND and Srinagar, but no real tangible results. In the meantime, death and mayhem continues.
Being MMS right now is a job not many would want. I understand and appreciate the differing viewpoints, the NC wants something, Congress can only give so much, BJP wants to give away nothing, and Geelani and co want everything. And let's not forget the Army who feel as if they're being kicked around like a political football. So I'm fully aware of the domestic and democratic compulsions you have.
Hopefully my fellow Pakistani members can grasp that, and realise that it's not so black and white. However, I think we're all in agreement that the suffering of Kashmiri's cannot continue.
We'll just have to see what step GoI take to make that breakthrough.
However, I think we're all in agreement that the suffering of Kashmiri's cannot continue.
However, I think we're all in agreement that the suffering of Kashmiri's cannot continue.
But is it doing nothing? And what would you perceive as 'more' than it is? Then as I keep coming back to, what is the end game?Agreed. But does that mean GOP should contend itself by doing nothing? While i agree to the above mentioned point, there is always a tipping point. Among other things, one thing that recent protests in Kashmir hope to achieve is international recognition. And it is coming. Slowly but it is. If you see the recent coverage in international media, the focus is shifting away from Pakistani interference and is moving more towards what India is doing in Kashmir. Pakistan can build on this. And even if it achieves nothing at the end, at least we tried. Most of all, it will show to the Kashmiris that we care if no one else does.
Thanks Patrician, and I agree with what you say. I have touched on a few posts back that India finds itself in a bind like no other. There is also the tug and pull from the Security Forces as they believe relinquishing AFSPA could be a mistake.
What I'm critical of is that there doesn't seem to be that 'grab this issue by the scruff of the neck' approach, and we're more than 2 months into it. A lot of back and forth between ND and Srinagar, but no real tangible results. In the meantime, death and mayhem continues.
Being MMS right now is a job not many would want. I understand and appreciate the differing viewpoints, the NC wants something, Congress can only give so much, BJP wants to give away nothing, and Geelani and co want everything. And let's not forget the Army who feel as if they're being kicked around like a political football. So I'm fully aware of the domestic and democratic compulsions you have.
Hopefully my fellow Pakistani members can grasp that, and realise that it's not so black and white. However, I think we're all in agreement that the suffering of Kashmiri's cannot continue.
We'll just have to see what step GoI take to make that breakthrough.
Sir if the intent is India bashing then that's fine...
If really interested in knowing about this side of the border then let me tell you, that this is a wrong perception that you are carrying....Once a curfew is laid down all those who break them are dealt with Iron Hand....We have scene many shoot at sight orders in different parts of India on various occasions...
if you are under the impression that Indians don't care about their fellow indians in J&K then i would say watch this program......
Mind it openly airing views of people who are against the state is not an ordinary thing...You will get another inclination from the the below given shows(from the same channel)
The debates are going on...Media is playing its role and things will change for good....
Yes, we do. And that is why the government continuously urge them not to indulge in violent protests and take law into their hands, but instead come to the table to talk. The ball has always been in their court.
NEW DELHI: About two thirds of residents in Indian-administered Kashmir want independence for their region, with less than one in ten seeking a merger with Pakistan, a survey showed Sunday.
The Kashmir region is administered separately by India and Pakistan, with the Indian part subject to an insurgency and violent separatist movement for the last 20 years that has claimed an estimated 47,000 lives.
The poll, conducted for the Sunday Hindustan Times newspaper, showed that 66 per cent of respondents in the Kashmir valley wanted “complete freedom to entire Jammu and Kashmir as a new country”.
Jammu and Kashmir includes the violence-wracked Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, the Hindu-majority region of Jammu and the mostly Buddhist Ladakh area.
Only six per cent in Kashmir wanted a “complete merger of the entire Jammu and Kashmir in Pakistan.”
The desire for independence for the state is not shared in the Jammu and Ladakh parts however, where 76 per cent and 70 per cent wanted a “complete merger” of the state into India.
Kashmir has a special status under the Indian constitution and was initially autonomous after partition of the subcontinent in 1947, though much of its autonomy has slowly been eroded.
Respondents were also asked who was to blame for a current wave of unrest in the Kashmir area where young stone-throwers have clashed with security forces for the last three months.
Seventy protesters and bystanders — some children — have been killed, mostly by security forces who have fired on demonstrations.
In Kashmir, 56 per cent blamed India for the unrest, while 44 per cent of those asked in the “rest of India” thought Pakistan was responsible for stirring up trouble.
Majorities in all areas concurred that Indian forces should not use bullets against protesters, with 96 per cent saying it was wrong in Kashmir, and 85 per cent in the rest of India.
Two thirds thought it was wrong in Jammu, while 31 per cent said it was acceptable.
The poll was conducted by Team CVoter and canvassed 2,369 people.
On Sunday, Indian security forces enforced a strict curfew in much of Kashmir, a day after prayers marking the end of the Muslim fasting month of Ramazan erupted into protests.
Thousands, including women and children, marched through the city and held demonstrations at its historic business centre.
Protesters hoisted green Islamic and Pakistani flags atop a clock tower and later police blamed them for setting fire to a government building that housed the offices of the force's crime branch and power development department.
Separatists, who led Saturday's protests, blamed “anti-movement elements” for setting fire to the building and called for a probe into the arson.
Police said they had imposed a curfew on Sunday to prevent further violence.
The Muslim-majority Kashmir region has been fought over by India and Pakistan since the partition of British-ruled India in 1947, with the region now cut in two along a UN-monitored line of control.
DAWN.COM | World | Two thirds in Kashmir want independence: poll