Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Swift]

I will wait for tomorrows news paper to check if "India has lost Kashmir"

 

[desiman]

Dont bother. You cannot win over us in the west with the fanatical Islamic version. We like to deal with only moderate Islamic parties and Islamic intellectuals. I saw videos of Kashmir protests and they look right out of some fanatical Islamic country with uneducated, rag tag people hurling stones. No one will support a movement like that, just to let you know.

Well said

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

They tried to burn a Church, anybody who's trying to burn a place of worship will be met with live bullets regardless of them protesting against India, USA or Pakistan for that matter.

wish you had similar outlook in 1984; or at Gujrat and of course Orissa.


pity!

 

[LaBong]

Hindus who burnt churches seemed not to have been greeted with bullets - in secular India - curious that.

Well in my state at least they will be. Togaria and his kind don't really represent India y'know.

 

[karan.1970]

wish you had similar outlook in 1984; or at Gujrat and of course Orissa.


pity!

I agree that 1984 and Gujrat etc should have been dealt in the same manner.. But then one learns from ones mistakes. The fact that you failed to act historically, can not give a blank check for a repeat in future as well.

This is very similar to Pakistan acting against the extremists post 2001 attack on the US and not before that. There is always an inflexion point when strategies change..

 

[indiaworldpower]

Whether Kashmir gets freedom or not, India, for sure, is going to lose its ground completely in the valley

Mehdi Siddique
After achieving freedom from the colonial British rule in 1947, India declared itself a democratic country. A country where none shall be oppressed and all will be given equal chances to grow economically, socially and morally regardless of their language, colour, creed, and religion etc.

Accordingly a constitution was framed which gave these opportunities to its citizens and all were directly obliged to adhere to the constitution. Nevertheless, the citizens of India were given some basic and important rights, which aimed to uplift a common citizen and help him to come out of the major problems. These rights came to be known as Fundamental Rights. The seven fundamental rights recognised by the constitution are right to equality, right to freedom, right to freedom from exploitation, right to freedom of religion, cultural and educational rights, right to constitutional remedies and right to education.

And now, after 63 years of Independent India, we witness a new India, which it never was supposed to be. People of India never fought to see a day like this, when their own made government would have no respect for the sentiments, and feelings for the people which they claim to be their own very part. We now witness a so called ‘big democracy’ in a ‘big crisis’.

Kashmir- the so called ‘integral’ part of India has lost 100 thousand lives just to attain something which is very much democratic, constitutional, and just in nature. Fundamentally, people of Kashmir want peace. What does the Indian constitution say about those who want to live in peace, those who don’t want to see their kith and kin killed by the CRPF bullets?

But, as already mentioned, the present day India is not the India it was supposed to be. The government of India is afraid to address the vexed issue of Kashmir and solve the dispute in accordance to the wishes and aspirations of Kashmiri people.

On one hand the government of India claims Kashmir to be its integral part and on the other it is detaining the people of Kashmir of the fundamental rights which it should grant to Kashmiris if its claim is true. If Kashmir is really an integral part of India then why:

1. More then 52 civilians were killed by the Paramilitary forces in last twos months unrest, more than 60 killed since June, 11, 2010 and more than 100 thousand people were killed in last two decades. To this the government both at centre and state replies that- ‘these civilians are not civilians at all, they carry stones in their hands and provoke the Paramilitary forces’. If this is the case then why- in Mumbai, Delhi etc water tanks are used to disperse the protestors (who carry the same stones) while here no other option is found but to open fire at the angry mobs. And it is even more ironical to see that out of the 31 patients with the bullet injuries, admitted in SKIMS on Aug 2, 2010, 15 have been shot above the legs with 14 on head. Protection of life and personal liberty is mentioned in the Article 21 of Indian constitution which the Indian government is itself defying in Kashmir.

2. Local population is being harassed for peaceful protest; even those protesting over FACEBOOK are not spared. And FIR is being hammered on all of them. What has happened to the freedom of speech which is supposed to be the fundamental right of every citizen of India, are the commoners not even allowed to raise their voices over the unending blood bath?

3. Kashmiris, specifically, when outside state are harassed in hotels, motels etc and are often wrongly convicted as terrorists etc. They are always looked upon with suspicion and doubt. Hence Kashmiris are even deprived of the first fundamental right which Indian constitution grants to its citizens, that is the right to equality.

4. 7 lakh troopers have been deployed and many of the battalions are stationed in populated areas. The total population of Kashmir is around 80 lakh which means the troops-civilian ratio is 1:10 which is highest in the entire world.

These points are enough to prove that the claim of India that Kashmir is their ‘integral’ part if hollow in totality. How can it be an ‘integral’ part of India when the basic rights which are enjoyed by each and every Indian citizen are not granted to Kashmiris? In reality, the so called one of the biggest democracies of the world is at war with the people of Kashmir.

Moreover, the government of India seems to be least concerned in even addressing the issue of Kashmir in a proper way. They wait until the situation goes from bad to worse. There were seldom any serious talks before the August, 2008 protests in Kashmir which was originally triggered by Amarnath land issue. For the time being talks continued under the banner of ‘Quiet diplomacy’ which no one has ever explained and no one ever understood. Similarly, the seriousness and concern of India rose only after the killings in June, 11 this year.

India has lost Kashmir because of its own faults. The Indian government has never accepted their faults where they should have. Had Indian government been more sincere in approach, maybe, the situation would not have been worse as it is today. Had it employed democratic tools which it claims to abide by, may be the situation would not have been so disastrous.

At the top of it, New Delhi is using the wrong tactics to tackle the Kashmir issue. This is what it has become, more of a ‘tackling nature’ than ‘resolving’ one. Where Kashmiris are demanding revocation of the draconic laws like AFSPA and troop reduction and demilitarisation in public areas, state government supported by the centre is keen in pumping in even army, more units of CRPF and now Rapid Action Force (RAF) is all set to find its stake in the valley too. This clearly shows that Indian government is miscalculating the facts somewhere. They are not reaching out to the people of Kashmir and are not interested in knowing as to what the demands of the people are. This is where India as a democratic country has landed just after 63 year of its independence.

It should be noted that the spirit of azadi amongst the masses is very strong at the grass roots level. It will be an utter non-sense to term that it is being fostered by Pakistan, ISI or any separatist group.

All this depicts that the government of India is purely lacking the fundaments of Kashmir issue and in some way or other lack of seriousness in resolving the Kashmir issue can be widely seen now on their part.

At this point it is not only Kashmiri people who are undergoing turmoil but the India’s image as a big democracy in the world is at stake too. The way India is operating in Kashmir right now might make it the clone of Israel in the eyes of the Muslims and other humanely people of the whole world. And who knows this might even lead to the boycott of Indian products and services across the world. Boycotting upcoming Common Wealth Games scheduled at New Delhi is already the talk of the town now. Whether Kashmir gets freedom or not India is for sure going to lose its ground completely from the valley. And now the sincerity of India towards resolving Kashmir issue is at real test, if it is sincere then revoking AFSPA, demilitarisation from the public and market areas will be a first step forward. Let India weigh its ‘democratic’ image in the real scale.
India has lost Kashmir

Buddy, If you are quoting Indian constitution, then also quote that it does not allow any part of the land to be seperated from the country. To fulfil this perticur clause, government need to supress the seperatist movement.

Regarding your point on opportunities for Kashmiri people, they are getting more economic packages than any other state in this country. Even after that they want to seperate from India and go to Pakistan, sorry, it won't happen no matter how many people die in this country.

 

[LaBong]

wish you had similar outlook in 1984; or at Gujrat and of course Orissa.


pity!

Knew this is coming. 84 was politically motivated riot. Gujrat was sad chapter where a regional state govt went rogue. Anyway one wrong doesn't make another right. Burning a place of worship must not be tolerated.

 

[muse]

Togaria and his kind don't really represent India y'know.

And Modi his kind?


And that lune Thackeray does not represent Maharashtra?

Look, all I'm pointing to is that in "secular India" rules of the game are or at least appear to be different depending on the confession of players.


There will be a response to this massacre of the 13 - we all know it - and then what? Whom will you blame, besides Pakistan, of course?

 

[LaBong]

And Modi his kind?


And that lune Thackeray does not represent Maharashtra?

Look, all I'm pointing to is that in "secular India" rules of the game are or at least appear to be different depending on the confession of players.


There will be a response to this massacre of the 13 - we all know it - and then what? Whom will you blame, besides Pakistan, of course?

Modi neither, nor Ram sene goons, Bajrangs also, add SIMI to the list as well, hope I got my point across.

Once again, with due respect to Kashmiris struggle, those 13 deserved it if they tried to burn a Church. Any future response even can't be taken into consideration in this case, the day response by bigots will decide country's policy, I'll shut down my system, say goodbye to civilization and join Maoists or whatever near vicinity.

 

[muse]

the day response by bigots will decide country's policy, I'd shut down my system, say goodbye to civilization and join Maoists or whatever near vicinity.

Steady on - there's no shortage of bigots of any number of stripes.

 

[Tuahaa]

The church burning didn't have to do with the whole protest yaar...

Was watching Al Jazeera... the news said something along the lines of '13 killed during a large protest in Kashmir- amongst the protest, a church was burned down as emotions also ran high due to the Qur'an Burning'

The deaths were normal India-shoots-protesters deaths, and had nothing to do with the church attack.

 

[LaBong]

The church burning didn't have to do with the whole protest yaar...

Was watching Al Jazeera... the news said something along the lines of '13 killed during a large protest in Kashmir- amongst the protest, a church was burned down as emotions also ran high due to the Qur'an Burning'

The deaths were normal India-shoots-protesters deaths, and had nothing to do with the church attack.

But yesterday also saw a bigger protest where many public properties were burned, flag of another country was hosted. Although provocation was there, nobody was killed as force maintained utmost restrain. Today emotions were trading on a wrong path altogether.

 

[Tuahaa]

Kashmiris were angrier today, it seems. Indian military forces raised a curfew and told everyone 'to stay in their houses'. Seems that this worked them up a bit more.

They are also angry at U.S.A but that was for a different reason.

 

[nForce]

Lol i was just kidding & you jumped into no matter what conclusions
Sorry if my humor has increased the fire inside you .
Well I know each & every thing about Economy & Finance.But according to you we are very poor & our economic condition is very bad But here in in Azad Kashmir employment is not an issue.But according to you indian economy is very good But still employment is an issue in Indian occupied kashmir.

Isn't it strange

I didn't got any thing from your employment point.
But now i have drawn three conclusions.You have to select one option because this is the only way to remove confusion from your employment point(& this time its not funny).


Here are the three options:
1.India is so poor that it cannot give employment to kashmiris.Because its been 60 years & employment is an issue in IOK.

2.Accept that employment is not an issue in kashmir,But IDEOLOGY is an issue.(by accepting that option you will prove that india is very rich)

3.Third & last option is accept that you dont want to give employment to kashmiris because you consider those kashmiris LOW LIFE & LOW CAST people just as you consider Dalits & Shoder Low life & low cast

These are the 3 conclusions that anyone can draw from your employment point.
Now by accepting one of them you will remove the confusion & then we will proceed the debate.

There is a basic difference between the way you and I think.While you let assumptions do the talking,I talk in terms of facts and figures....
Well,here goes some facts and figures for you.....
Unemployment rate in a third World yet second fastest developing country like India is 10.70 %.Now it is lower in developed states like Gujarat and TamilNadu,but significantly higher in lesser developed states like Jammu & Kashmir.It is not like that unemployment is evenly distributed.
By the way do you have any idea what is the unemployment rate of a developed country like USA???It is 9.40 % .That will give you a comparative idea....And do you know where you people stand???Unemployment rate in Pakistan is as high as 15.20 %,that saw a whopping increase of 105.41 % over the last year.....

Your case is a perfect example of "Pot calling kettle black."


You dont have an iota of idea about Economics else you would have been aware of these elementary facts,even if you say otherwise,which I take to be point blank lying or an excellent show of complete ignorance......

It is quite natural to have grievances in mind if one has an empty stomach or lesser means to support his livelihood.Similar situation can be seen in a much much more magnified manner in the northern areas of Pakistan or almost whole of Pakistan where most of the taliban suicide bombers and mercenaries are actually unemployed and brainwashed youth.

Most of the unemployment issue in Kashmir can be traced back to the militancy issues which ruined the tourism based industries back in the 90s and early half of this decade.While the militancy issue has been well taken care of by the Indian army,it takes time to rebuild an economy,specially if it is based mainly on tourism and horticulture.

And about your failed nation point.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/63980-60-most-failed-countries-world-postcards-hell.html

This is your thread on PDF about failed nations and in this thread many indian members including you didn't agree with Pakistan being in top 10 failed nations
& now you are saying something else.

Watch Out you are turning away from your stance

Exactly point me out the post where I show my disagreement....

As I have said before,I think that the naming convention is not entirely right.The list provides us with data of categorization of countries based on certain parameters.The country with a higher propensity of not fulfilling the parameters goes up in the list.The simple presence of name of any country does not mean that it is actually a failed state.

That means if England is at #161 then it is not necessarily a failed state,but the country which features among top 10 has failed significantly on social,economical and political grounds.

You should be more concerned with yourself.With a nation in the state of a civil war,external debt more than 3 times of forex reserve and rampant corruption in between,I dont really see much to rejoice about.............

 

[LaBong]

Kashmiris were angrier today, it seems. Indian military forces raised a curfew and told everyone 'to stay in their houses'. Seems that this worked them up a bit more.

They are also angry at U.S.A but that was for a different reason.

Whatever might be reason of their anger, they vented their anger on a wrong place, in a wring, bigoted way. Sorry no sympathy this time. Burning church because some loony burning book in other part of world is fanatic thing to do, that too of stupid kinds.