Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[IndianArmy]

hmmm... hearing the other side of the coin also for the first time, from a person who had been there... thanks...
only thing is this dispute should end... how is the life of a normal Kashmir people ? I am not asking whether they support India / Pakistan / a seperate country... Normal people are always busy in finding food for themselves is what my view point is...

Are they enjoying their own culture freely and they do celebrate their own festivals ? And what is the amount of poverty there ?

Yes, Some of them Live on seasonal employment, we proved Jobs to the jobless when Needed the most, The Army buys the Raw materials from them If needed or not , Just to help them...

there life goes good, Most of them are employed in cottage Industries..
Poverty sure is a Major problem there, but they are happy with there own Life, they dont mingle with others much, They are normal Human Beings Dear, Like us

 

[karan.1970]

If it were say Hindu Pandits, it would have been more convenient to burn any evidence.

And you think Muslim bodies do not burn and had to be buried. IA is atrocious enough to kill them, but sensitive enough to dispose off the bodies keeping in mind religious sensitivities

 

[EjazR]

I don't think any sane Indian would deny that human rights abuses have been committed. But the peak is in the past. As a democratic country, it is forced to follow moral policies. Hence, the actual pace of human rights violations is drastically lower than the early 1990s. The mass graves mentioned are estimated to be 15 years old as well, not recent. There should be zero tolerance for HR abuse.
At the same time AI should highlight prominently the HR abuses committed by the militants who most of the time are based in Pakistan. The threats to women and politicians, the sporadic killings th throwing of acids are much bigger HR abuses which should be given as much if not more prominence due to the barbarity of their abuse.

Now that AI has got permission to visit the Indian side of Kashmir after 20 years. Will GoP give them permission to visit their side of Kashmir including the areas of Gilgit - Baltistan? OR do HR abuses there not count?

 

[Bang Galore]

What about this ?


Mass found Graves in Kashmir

I'm very sceptical about these being mass graves in the sense that it is being spoken of. Except for the lack of tombstones, they look like any other graveyard. Do you think that if the security forces were responsible, they would have painstakingly dug individual graves with raised mounds in clear demarcated lines identifying them as graves for people that according to the theory, they did not think much off? Would it not have been much easier to use a JCB and dig a single large pit & dump all the bodies there which is how a "mass grave" usually looks like? Why this concern to do it almost with a religious overtone?

In these days of satellite imaging, digging and burying people in mass graves is not so simple as some of you think it to be. If the security forces were responsible and wanted to get rid of the bodies, a crematorium would have been a much better choice than burying people in clearly identifiable graves.

 

[Kompromat]

^ Read through the article , i cant answer these stupid questions repeatedly.

 

[dabong1]

Two Indian soldiers shot dead along LOC

SRINAGAR: Two Indian soldiers were shot dead and three others injured on Tuesday along the Line of Control (LOC), the Indian Army said. The attack took place on Tuesday evening along the LOC in the southern Poonch district, Indian Army Spokesman Biplab Nath told AFP. “Our vehicle moving from one post to another along the LOC was targeted, killing two soldiers,” he said, adding that three others were injured. “We are trying to ascertain whether the fire came from across the LOC or if it was carried out by sneaking militants,” he said. afp
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Edit: Can someone guide me as to whether this post by 'dabong1' can be reported for support of terrorism?

Why would this be 'support for terrorism'? You asked him a question and he gave you an answer.

On a side note, the warning about 'no support for terrorism' was meant to be from admins to members, and admins continue to reserve the right to make judgments on whether a line has been crossed or not, especially given the fact that 'one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter'.

That warning on 'no support for terrorism' was not meant to be used as a harassment tool by members against other members, which is how I increasingly see it being used by some to stifle discussion.

If you consider a post to be violating that rule, report it and the admins will deal with it as they see fit. Don't raise it on the open forum and harass other members. If you have questions about admin decisions, raise them through PM with civility.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The earlier thread on the killing of two Indian soldiers in IAK (posted in the India Defence sub-forum) has been merged with this one since there is speculation that the firing was done by insurgents.

 

[prodevelopment]

Why would this be 'support for terrorism'? You asked him a question and he gave you an answer.

On a side note, the warning about 'no support for terrorism' was meant to be from admins to members, and admins continue to reserve the right to make judgments on whether a line has been crossed or not, especially given the fact that 'one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter'.

That warning on 'no support for terrorism' was not meant to be used as a harassment tool by members against other members, which is how I increasingly see it being used by some to stifle discussion.

If you consider a post to be violating that rule, report it and the admins will deal with it as they see fit, don't raise it on the open forum and harass other members. if you have questions about admin decisions, raise them through PM with civility.

Thank you for your reply Sir. I fail to see where I have not been civil with the member. Anyways if you go through the entire thread, my post would not even scratch the surface. Could you point out specific words/phrases which might have hurt his sentiments?

Secondly, I agree that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. However, to deal with this specific issue, the mods had termed a terrorist as someone who harms civilians with his process. Therefore, by this definition, Maulana Azhar deserves to be termed as a terrorist.

But your point about 'support' is well taken and I have not reported the said post.

Thank you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I fail to see where I have not been civil with the member.

My reference was to the use of 'support for terrorism' as a threat to some members, and it was not limited to you, some others have done it as well.

The point I made was that it needs to be reported and left to the mods/admins, and not raised on the open forum.

Secondly, I agree that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. However, to deal with this specific issue, the mods had termed a terrorist as someone who harms civilians with his process. Therefore, by this definition, Maulana Azhar deserves to be termed as a terrorist.

And all these are arguments you can make when reporting a post or discussing a post through PM with mods. On the post in question (Dabong's - I have not read posts prior to that), I understood him to be merely answering your question on whether any 'educated individuals were fighting in J&K'.

 

[username]

The comparision is spot on.....the indian army invaded kashmir and the kashmiris are fighting to expel the invader.

Invader might be your point of view. See the difference which I am saying is that India thinks Kashmir as its own territory. In light of this militants fighting USSR and US and winning does not count, as both the countries would do check and balances as they don't consider Afghan or Viatnam as their territory.

India sending its citizens dressed in army uniforms to get killed in kashmir is a disgrace.

However India does not send citizens just "dressed" in army uniform. They are Indian Army men. They are properly employed men in Indian army, but the terrorists whom you call as freedom fighters are not employees, they are merely PROXIES not your ARMY. And why I am concerned about PROXIES is that, I feel Pakistan manipulates them without any proper compensation as your ARMY gets. This is morally corrupt. So I would like to correct myself if at all Pakistan gives proper compensation to their PROXIES like it gives to your ARMY. In a way I feel pity for you so called freedom fighters also, as I feel they are simply manipulated without proper compensation in to crossing the LOC and getting killed for nothing.

We tried the the democratic route and you rigged the elections so that leaves only the gun.

Its not a question of you want ,but a question of if you will forfill your obligations that where promised to the kashmiris.
The debate on kashmir will always end up on the kashmiris getting the right of self determination which is something you guys know is where all your talk falls apart.

Again kashmir is not part of your country so logic does not count.

Well these points, I will not answer as it will simply lead to endless argument.

Well yout totally wrong.

Prove that I am totally wrong, prove that your government takes care of the Kashmir terrorists (whom you call freedom fighters) as same as your army men (award, compensation, quota etc)...

As i said before google it but heres aquick few examples

Ilyas Kashmiri (militant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maulana Masood Azhar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Theres two well know persons that fought in kashmir with an education......i bet now you want me to list freedom fighters with PHds?

As I said assume good faith, I am just keen on knowing (with a proof) whether educated men take part in Kashmir terrorism (which you call as freedom struggle) or not.

In the second example, he studied in a Madarasa, and not a real degree ?
In the first example, he studied just for 1 year ? not even a course completion ? what can he do with just 1 year of study ?

And a lot of points have already been put by "prodevelopment", I don't want to repeat it.

Fine leave both of these examples, anything else ? again assume good faith please, I am not asking for phd. I am asking for just a professional education such as engineers, doctors etc fighting as terrorists (whom you would call as freedom fighters) in Kashmir from your side. If you could bring examples of much more reputable education (in real world terms, please don't say anything like why not Madarasa education is a reputable education) I would be glad to try to change my thinking about terrorism going on in Kashmir.

 

[RPK]

Army corners terrorists in J-K forest, kills 11 - India - ibnlive

Srinagar: Indian Army's newly launched Operation Thunder Strike has killed 11 terrorists in a 10-day operation in Jammu and Kashmir.

The anti-terror operation in Hafruda forests has also led to the recovery of a huge quantity of automatic rifles, grenades, IEDs, rocket launchers and a huge cache of ammunition. The huge cache of arms and ammunition suggest Pakistan is giving yet another big push to terrorists on the Indian side of Line of Control.
he Army and Jammu and Kashmir Police also lost three men including an officer in the operations




"This operation has started on May 5. We killed 11 terrorists and no civilian casualties have taken place," said Major General N George, GOC of Kilo Force of the Indian Army.

The Army has entered deep into the forests to neutralise the terrorists just near the LoC, but the challenges still remain.

"There are 27 terrorists who sneaked into this side since January, out of which we have killed 13 so far," said North Kashmir Range DIG AQ Manhas.

Police have even mapped areas where they are mulling to step up the operations. Meanwhile, Army sources say attempts of infiltration are on and the latest attempts were made from RS Pora in Jammu and Handwara in Kashmir.

"The areas infested presently are Lolab area, Rajwar, Zachaldara, Hafruda, Mawar, Rafiabad, parts of Sopore and adjoining areas of Bandipora connecting with Kupwara," adds DIG Manhas.

Security forces believe they can go further on the lead if continous pressure is mounted on terrorists and the battle is taken into their supposed territory deep into the jungles.

 

[username]

A person of your knowledge must be knowing that Terrorists are identified and marked by locals / J&K Police (raised from locals). Even if I post an article mentioned the details of weapons they carried - would it make any difference to you. You will shout - they were planted by the army and we'll be back to where we started.

This is a long standing double edged argument. If some identification documents are posted - The answer is - Will a terrorist carry his I-Card mentioning his nationality while on mission. If there are none - then we already see your line of argument.

So we have this preconceived notion that whoever is killed by IA is a local Kashmiri - falsely implicated. Mind you I have never denied that there have been excesses and that no innocent has ever died, but atleast in the recent years the Army is being held accountable - Latest example is the death of a begger, who was falsely claimed to be a terrorist - and later identified by local population as a Kashmiri.

If they actually were local Kashmiris, will the population stay so quiet - Recently on the issue of that begger - and even for Sophian rape case - there were widespread demonstrations demanding justice. In the case of these terrorists as for most others, even the cremation will be conducted by IA.

I wish these - even rare - incidents of innocents suffering could be avoided. But then it is their misfortune that the beautiful home is the subject of tug of war between two powerful nations.

Skeptic, I share most of your thoughts.

 

[KS]

^ Read through the article , i cant answer these stupid questions repeatedly.

I ve read the post.

Ok now answer just these 2 sane questions.:


1)Wats the proof that they were the bodies of Kashmiri Muslims only
and not Hindu Pandits or Terrorists..except the golden words of this god-women Angana..?

2)She had declared arbitarily that 47/50 encounters were fake and even in the real one he was a local militant..
a)Hw come she knows abt real and fake encounters..?
b)how is she damn sure that the other was a local militant..?
Did she interview him ..?

and I can go on and on with so many questions.


The point is there are too many unanswered question buddy....so before pointing fingers a bit self-introspection is appreciable.

 

[KS]

What i find funny is that you have the mental fortitude to equate india with either the US or USSR.

Where have i compared India with US and USSR..?
Dont twist my words dude...If u cant answer them..u have the option of skipping them..U dont have to force urself to answer everything.

But you fail to mention the nukes came about becauce of the kashmir issue and if theres a war it will be for reason to do with kashmir.
Thats why the world wants the UN ro sort the issue out of kashmir.

Watever reason ..nukes have ultimately come....nad the world cares only abt the nukes..The world gives Jacksh** abt Indian "occupation " of Kashmir.

Nehru invaded kashmir and other states also....he was never into non violence.

Ooops..i forgot u read Pakistani history books in ur 6 th standard..

Ok so if Indian troops invaded first why is 1/3 of Kashmir with Pakistan..?

And we have been trying to give the people of kashmir a taste of true freedom for the last 63 years.

Yeh u can go on trying for the next 630 years.Who cares...

The same way we dont care what you indian call the occupation army in kashmir.....to us there all ****.

No buddy...unlike us u dont have the luxury of not caring wat Indian ppl think because wether u like it or not 2/3 of Kashmir is with India and so Indian opinion is everything

I dont care for what you indians do with your money as long it its spend on killing innocent kashmiri people.....then i do care.

Innocent Kashmiris always roam with Kalashnikovs ,rocket launchers and grenades..?Now thats news to me.

The indian occupation forces are just target practice.

Target practice..?!?!? but the news that are coming recently suggest the otherwise...
(hint:post # 513,514,515)